Long Wave Radio? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

stampeder · 2012-04-18, 02:33 AM

When I was a kid there was talk about how long wave radio (frequency band below the AM Radio broadcast band) was essentially unregulated in the U.S. and that almost anyone could go live on that band without licensing.

What is the situation with Long Wave Radio in Canada? Is anyone able to update us on that and/or describe any systems they've used?

downbeat · 2012-04-18, 02:40 AM

Last time I checked, airport beacons in Canada use frequencies below 500 kHz. Just slow Morse code signals repeating three-letter airport codes over and over again.

JamesK · 2012-04-18, 07:53 AM

There's a variety of services below the AM band. As mentioned above, there's navigation, including LORAN B. The U.S. Navy uses extremely low frequencies for communications with subs. There is also some amateur radio use in some countries, among other uses, including broadcasting. There's some info on Wikipedia. I believe there is some provision for unlicensed use in Canada, but can't say for sure.

timlocke · 2012-04-18, 08:50 AM

BBC Radio 4 ( The Home Service as it used to be called) was on 200Khz or close when I was a kid in the UK. Signal penetrated everywhere in the UK and was reasonably free of interference even at night. I have heard it here more recently on a Sony Short wave receiver but buried under assorted interfering sources.

ChannelMaster · 2012-04-18, 04:42 PM

Ah Tim, whenever I travel home (the Gaspe coast), I lend an attentive ear to the BBC LW broadcasts as well as French and irish (which I discovered during the 2011 holidays on 252 KHz).

While there and with just the whip of an Eton E1, I was able to reasonably follow the France Info evening news on 201 KHz at 13:30 in the afternoon. This of course takes place when the winter days are at their shortest but still. The sun was way up there and long wave propagation was happening.

Other than the 165-220 KHz (250 with a stretch) band, nothing but relentless navigational beacons.

Obed · 2012-04-18, 11:31 PM

Not to mention another long wave of non stop hits - Atlantic 252.
It was more than a bit repetitive but helped give commercial radio in UK (oh and did they cover Ireland?) a much needed kick in the rear in the early 90's.
Great for long car journeys without having to retune the radio umpteen times! Did I mention the repetitive playlist...

Also BBC Radio 2 including the sports coverage was on 1500m/200khz until about 1978, before Radio 4 went UK wide on long wave 198 khz.

Ah the nostalgia! Long wave radio was normal for a past generation of ex-pats. But choice and quality is much better today , no going back now.

yohee · 2012-04-20, 04:09 PM

lobby the government to use longwave

BGY11 · 2012-04-21, 03:57 AM

Not going to happen. Given how many stations are abandoning the AM dial, and there are no car receivers here that handle longwave, the chances are pretty much zero. I think there would be a better chance of HD radio instead of longwave.

Vinyl Guy · 2012-04-28, 08:13 AM

I agree that it is unlikely to happen. Although, I did have an old Arcam Alpha tuner (made in the UK) that had a Long Wave button. Never picked up anything in southern Ontario.

JamesK · 2012-04-28, 02:14 PM

According to what I read recently, a small slice around 472 KHz may soon be available for amateur radio use. For some real excitement, you can tune into the WWVB time and frequency standard signal on 60 KHz.

wysiwyg · 2012-04-30, 07:49 PM

I used to listen to RTL on LW in France (234 khz) when I lived there, but when FM come and these national stations were allowed to broadcast on it, very few now tune on LW. The quality is just not there and it is very expensive to power their giant transmitters. The only benefit is that you get to reach most of the country.

LW would have been great for Canada in the 60-90's due to our wide open spaces, but now with Satellite radio, Internet radio (which anyone can tune in their cars via iPhones/Google...), it would never make sense to launch something like this now. What we need is a proper Digital radio standard (either HD-FM or the European standard - DAB)

va3saj · 2012-05-01, 06:38 PM

Long Wave Radio isn't dead...it's just sleeping (quietly). I'm a ham radio op, and using my Kenwood TS-590/TS-850S I can receive several longwave channels from Europe at night (particularly in the winter months, when atmospheric static is at a minimum). I need a very long antenna for this...about 150 feet in length. Some longwavers use beverage antennas, several thousand feet long. But I don't have that much land. Anyway, here in Southern Ontario, on an electrically "quiet" night, here's what I get:

162 Allouis, France Iter (French Public Radio, 2000 kW)
171 Nador Morocco Medi 1 (2000 kW)
183 Felsburg, Germany Europe 1 (500 kW)
189 Gufuskalen, Iceland (RVV National Program, 300 kW)
198 Droitwich, UK (BBC 500 kW)
216 Radio Monte Carlo (1200 kW)
234 Luxembourg (RTL, 2000 kW)
252 Clarkstown, Ireland (RTE Radio 1 500 kW)

There's also an abundance of longwave beacons, if you're into that sort of thing. There's a list here:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm

Cham · 2012-05-05, 10:18 AM

As an amateur operator it's always fun to experiment on the various bands, one we can utilize is the 135-137KHz band, but very few are active there. I think most commercially made HF transceivers will work on that band but may not transmit very efficiently but a simple CW transmitter is not too difficult to build.
Might be some info on the Radio Amateurs of Canada website.
C.

NovaMan · 2012-05-06, 04:41 PM

Here is a very short clip featuring long wave broadcasts that you may find interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=805JXf8wvmg

The stations in this video may be BBC radio 4 on 198 kHz and also Germany on 183 kHz.

wysiwyg · 2012-05-06, 07:25 PM

This one's pretty cool as well.
http://youtu.be/3fAjoqEJO_w
The radio is in Barcelona and it's amazing how well it picks up RTL from Luxemburg. When I lived in France, we could barely pickup RTL in the French Riviera and had to switch the RMC (Radio Monte Carlo) which was the "Southern radio". With FM, it is now available throughout France and switched from a General format to all news.

I own the same radio (Seagan) which I take with me where ever I go. Usefull since it has RDS from FM, so you know which station you are tuning to.

2012-04-18, 02:33 AM	#1
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Long Wave Radio? When I was a kid there was talk about how long wave radio (frequency band below the AM Radio broadcast band) was essentially unregulated in the U.S. and that almost anyone could go live on that band without licensing. What is the situation with Long Wave Radio in Canada? Is anyone able to update us on that and/or describe any systems they've used?

2012-04-18, 04:42 PM	#5
ChannelMaster Join Date: May 2011 Location: Longueuil Posts: 442	Ah Tim, whenever I travel home (the Gaspe coast), I lend an attentive ear to the BBC LW broadcasts as well as French and irish (which I discovered during the 2011 holidays on 252 KHz). While there and with just the whip of an Eton E1, I was able to reasonably follow the France Info evening news on 201 KHz at 13:30 in the afternoon. This of course takes place when the winter days are at their shortest but still. The sun was way up there and long wave propagation was happening. Other than the 165-220 KHz (250 with a stretch) band, nothing but relentless navigational beacons. __________________ Going digital with a pair of CM4228a pointing due south fed into a Winegard SD-3700 antenna coupler @220 ft

2012-04-20, 04:09 PM	#7
yohee Join Date: May 2011 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 52	gee i would like canada to try longwave radio lobby the government to use longwave

2012-05-05, 10:18 AM	#13
Cham Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Southern Manitoba Posts: 194	As an amateur operator it's always fun to experiment on the various bands, one we can utilize is the 135-137KHz band, but very few are active there. I think most commercially made HF transceivers will work on that band but may not transmit very efficiently but a simple CW transmitter is not too difficult to build. Might be some info on the Radio Amateurs of Canada website. C. __________________ Winegard HD7697P, FTA C-band, & various home made projects...

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2012-04-18, 02:40 AM	#2
downbeat Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 3,590	Last time I checked, airport beacons in Canada use frequencies below 500 kHz. Just slow Morse code signals repeating three-letter airport codes over and over again.

2012-04-18, 07:53 AM	#3
JamesK Veteran Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 5,089	There's a variety of services below the AM band. As mentioned above, there's navigation, including LORAN B. The U.S. Navy uses extremely low frequencies for communications with subs. There is also some amateur radio use in some countries, among other uses, including broadcasting. There's some info on Wikipedia. I believe there is some provision for unlicensed use in Canada, but can't say for sure.

2012-04-18, 08:50 AM	#4
timlocke Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Guelph Posts: 551	BBC Radio 4 ( The Home Service as it used to be called) was on 200Khz or close when I was a kid in the UK. Signal penetrated everywhere in the UK and was reasonably free of interference even at night. I have heard it here more recently on a Sony Short wave receiver but buried under assorted interfering sources.

2012-04-18, 11:31 PM	#6
Obed Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Scarborough Posts: 196	Not to mention another long wave of non stop hits - Atlantic 252. It was more than a bit repetitive but helped give commercial radio in UK (oh and did they cover Ireland?) a much needed kick in the rear in the early 90's. Great for long car journeys without having to retune the radio umpteen times! Did I mention the repetitive playlist... Also BBC Radio 2 including the sports coverage was on 1500m/200khz until about 1978, before Radio 4 went UK wide on long wave 198 khz. Ah the nostalgia! Long wave radio was normal for a past generation of ex-pats. But choice and quality is much better today , no going back now.

2012-04-21, 03:57 AM	#8
BGY11 Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 3,183	Not going to happen. Given how many stations are abandoning the AM dial, and there are no car receivers here that handle longwave, the chances are pretty much zero. I think there would be a better chance of HD radio instead of longwave.

2012-04-28, 08:13 AM	#9
Vinyl Guy Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Oakville Posts: 34	I agree that it is unlikely to happen. Although, I did have an old Arcam Alpha tuner (made in the UK) that had a Long Wave button. Never picked up anything in southern Ontario.

2012-04-28, 02:14 PM	#10
JamesK Veteran Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mississauga Posts: 5,089	According to what I read recently, a small slice around 472 KHz may soon be available for amateur radio use. For some real excitement, you can tune into the WWVB time and frequency standard signal on 60 KHz.

2012-04-30, 07:49 PM	#11
wysiwyg Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto - Davisville Subway Posts: 911	I used to listen to RTL on LW in France (234 khz) when I lived there, but when FM come and these national stations were allowed to broadcast on it, very few now tune on LW. The quality is just not there and it is very expensive to power their giant transmitters. The only benefit is that you get to reach most of the country. LW would have been great for Canada in the 60-90's due to our wide open spaces, but now with Satellite radio, Internet radio (which anyone can tune in their cars via iPhones/Google...), it would never make sense to launch something like this now. What we need is a proper Digital radio standard (either HD-FM or the European standard - DAB)

2012-05-01, 06:38 PM	#12
va3saj Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Barrie, Ontario Posts: 53	Long Wave Radio isn't dead...it's just sleeping (quietly). I'm a ham radio op, and using my Kenwood TS-590/TS-850S I can receive several longwave channels from Europe at night (particularly in the winter months, when atmospheric static is at a minimum). I need a very long antenna for this...about 150 feet in length. Some longwavers use beverage antennas, several thousand feet long. But I don't have that much land. Anyway, here in Southern Ontario, on an electrically "quiet" night, here's what I get: 162 Allouis, France Iter (French Public Radio, 2000 kW) 171 Nador Morocco Medi 1 (2000 kW) 183 Felsburg, Germany Europe 1 (500 kW) 189 Gufuskalen, Iceland (RVV National Program, 300 kW) 198 Droitwich, UK (BBC 500 kW) 216 Radio Monte Carlo (1200 kW) 234 Luxembourg (RTL, 2000 kW) 252 Clarkstown, Ireland (RTE Radio 1 500 kW) There's also an abundance of longwave beacons, if you're into that sort of thing. There's a list here: http://www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm

2012-05-06, 04:41 PM	#14
NovaMan Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 214	Here is a very short clip featuring long wave broadcasts that you may find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=805JXf8wvmg The stations in this video may be BBC radio 4 on 198 kHz and also Germany on 183 kHz.

2012-05-06, 07:25 PM	#15
wysiwyg Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto - Davisville Subway Posts: 911	This one's pretty cool as well. http://youtu.be/3fAjoqEJO_w The radio is in Barcelona and it's amazing how well it picks up RTL from Luxemburg. When I lived in France, we could barely pickup RTL in the French Riviera and had to switch the RMC (Radio Monte Carlo) which was the "Southern radio". With FM, it is now available throughout France and switched from a General format to all news. I own the same radio (Seagan) which I take with me where ever I go. Usefull since it has RDS from FM, so you know which station you are tuning to.