Does Rogers have CableCARD? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

Ken H · 2012-04-29, 03:23 AM

Can they rent one to a customer, for a HTPC or TiVo?

It seems like I've read no Canadian cableco has them, can't remember for sure.

TIA

yyzlhr · 2012-04-29, 09:23 AM

Canadian cable companies have no adopted the use of cable card and probably never will.

57 · 2012-04-29, 10:03 AM

This question has been asked many times and the answer is no. Currently no major Canadian Cable Companies offer a CableCARD option (I don't believe there is even a minor company offering it today - Compton, just outside Toronto once did, but they are now owned by Rogers). A search for the term "CableCARD" in this Rogers forum will find the previous threads where the topic was extensively discussed.

CableCARD was "replaced" with Tru2Way several years ago, but as far as I can tell, this technology has basically also gone nowhere in Canada.

Wayne · 2012-05-01, 01:44 PM

Shame on the CRTC for not supporting Canadian cable customers to the extent that the FCC does in the US by forcing cable cos to supply CableCARDS.

57 · 2012-05-01, 02:26 PM

Had the CableCARD scenario in the US been positive, we would have probably seen them up here, however, it was anything but positive for several of the following reasons.

1. Compatibility initially was a huge issue creating much work and many headaches for the provider.

2. This placed cable companies at a disadvantage from a $ (not feature) standpoint since it cost them billions, yes Billions to try to make the technology work, while Sat simply supplied their STBs to customers.

3. CableCARD was not initially two-way, therefore was incompatible with IPGs, VOD, SDV, cable diagnostics like remote signal strength measurements, etc.

4. If anything went wrong, there was "finger pointing" by the cable companies which then had to diagnose an issue outside their typical scope.

5. After spending Billions, I believe less than 1% of customers asked for, or used CableCARD and the cost was much higher than even giving away STBs. There was an article, that I can't find right now, that discussed the costs.

6. CableCARD cost the 99% of people who didn't need the technology money too because TVs, etc needed to be built with the technology. What a waste!

6. By the time there was two-way - necessary for proper cable operation, CableCARD had given way to yet another technology - Tru2Way, which also died on the vine.

Time for the 1% or fewer to give up on this.

I agree, it would be nice to have this for an HTPC, TiVo, or perhaps a wall-mounted TV that had no other inputs, however, the vast majority of applications are not such and I don't see why the vast majority should subsidize the few who have a hankering for this.

Classof83 · 2012-05-01, 02:39 PM

But after the FCC changed rules (again), things have changed:

"There has been much resistance from the cable companies to CableCARD rollout across the United States with the cable companies preferring to support their own set-top boxes. This has changed somewhat with the July 2007 FCC integration ban, which required all new set-top boxes to use CableCARDs as their decryption mechanism. Prior to this, adoption had proceeded slowly with 141,000 units by February 2006. By June 2009, there were over 14,000,000 CableCARDs deployed including 437,800 of which went into retail equipment."

57 · 2012-05-01, 02:48 PM

I see you copied that from Wikipedia. Later they go on to say other things about Tru2Way in 2010, as well as other "preferred technologies" like DCAS, however, the article doesn't appear to have been updated since....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

Quote:

CableCARD 2.0 hosts will be required to provide the OpenCable Application Platform (OCAP), also known as Tru2Way, to run programs downloaded from the cable company. Some analysts predict that wide availability of tru2way will not be seen until late 2010.

Anything happen? Yep - from the Tru2way link:

Quote:

As of July 2010, Panasonic, the sole device manufacturer producing Tru2way compatible televisions, has stated that they will no longer sell Tru2way compatible televisions. Thus at this point there are no television sets with built-in Tru2Way compatibility being sold.

Wayne · 2012-05-01, 03:48 PM

I am willing to pay Rogers a few hundred dollars to support my CableCARD setup but I think this whole concept was suppressed by the cable cos in the US.

But there has been a dearth of devices available until very recently. So it is kind of a chicken and egg situation.

In the last year we have started to see more intersting devices in the HTPC space that use CableCARD with multi-tuner devices for WinMC being released by Ceton, SiliconDust and Hauppauge. And Ceton is coming out with a new whole home system called the Q with extenders called the Echo (there is a least one other company offering a similar device). But none of these devices are any use to Canadians.

But the potential availability of CableCARDS could give Consumer Electronics manufacturers the incentive to make theses devices. God knows can use it as even with some recent improvements the software in the Rogers PVRs is horrible.

TorontoColin · 2012-05-04, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne

I am willing to pay Rogers a few hundred dollars to support my CableCARD setup

Some how I don't think that would justify for Rogers the hundreds of thousands of dollars to add CableCARD support.

Even with the introduction of other consumer devices, Rogers still has no real incentive to support them. They want people to use their cable boxes.

yyzlhr · 2012-05-04, 02:14 AM

It would be great if Rogers supported Cablecard. I would gladly give up ROD in order to have my own media centre setup. I'm not sure why no Canadian cable companies implemented it. They could charge a monthly fee for renting a cablecard, that would certainly have a higher profit margin then renting out an STB as most of the rental revenue goes back into refurbishing and distributing returned STBs back into the rental pool. I don't think CableCards are as prone to failure as the STB.

Joethedragon · 2012-05-07, 08:31 PM

in USA we want to be able to buy the cable box and not be forced to rent it or have to pay high outlet fees. With cable card most systems force to rent them and some hit you with a outlet fee as well.

the sat systems let you buy the box but the mirroring fee is the same as the rent fee and a DVR fee and HD fee is also needed as well even when you OWN the box.

2012-04-29, 03:23 AM	#1
Ken H Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern Windsor, ON Posts: 185	Does Rogers have CableCARD? Can they rent one to a customer, for a HTPC or TiVo? It seems like I've read no Canadian cableco has them, can't remember for sure. TIA

2012-04-29, 10:03 AM	#3
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,297	This question has been asked many times and the answer is no. Currently no major Canadian Cable Companies offer a CableCARD option (I don't believe there is even a minor company offering it today - Compton, just outside Toronto once did, but they are now owned by Rogers). A search for the term "CableCARD" in this Rogers forum will find the previous threads where the topic was extensively discussed. CableCARD was "replaced" with Tru2Way several years ago, but as far as I can tell, this technology has basically also gone nowhere in Canada. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2012-05-01, 02:26 PM	#5
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,297	Had the CableCARD scenario in the US been positive, we would have probably seen them up here, however, it was anything but positive for several of the following reasons. 1. Compatibility initially was a huge issue creating much work and many headaches for the provider. 2. This placed cable companies at a disadvantage from a $ (not feature) standpoint since it cost them billions, yes Billions to try to make the technology work, while Sat simply supplied their STBs to customers. 3. CableCARD was not initially two-way, therefore was incompatible with IPGs, VOD, SDV, cable diagnostics like remote signal strength measurements, etc. 4. If anything went wrong, there was "finger pointing" by the cable companies which then had to diagnose an issue outside their typical scope. 5. After spending Billions, I believe less than 1% of customers asked for, or used CableCARD and the cost was much higher than even giving away STBs. There was an article, that I can't find right now, that discussed the costs. 6. CableCARD cost the 99% of people who didn't need the technology money too because TVs, etc needed to be built with the technology. What a waste! 6. By the time there was two-way - necessary for proper cable operation, CableCARD had given way to yet another technology - Tru2Way, which also died on the vine. Time for the 1% or fewer to give up on this. I agree, it would be nice to have this for an HTPC, TiVo, or perhaps a wall-mounted TV that had no other inputs, however, the vast majority of applications are not such and I don't see why the vast majority should subsidize the few who have a hankering for this. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

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2012-04-29, 09:23 AM	#2
yyzlhr Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 668	Canadian cable companies have no adopted the use of cable card and probably never will.

2012-05-01, 01:44 PM	#4
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,568	Shame on the CRTC for not supporting Canadian cable customers to the extent that the FCC does in the US by forcing cable cos to supply CableCARDS.

2012-05-01, 02:39 PM	#6
Classof83 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 882	But after the FCC changed rules (again), things have changed: "There has been much resistance from the cable companies to CableCARD rollout across the United States with the cable companies preferring to support their own set-top boxes. This has changed somewhat with the July 2007 FCC integration ban, which required all new set-top boxes to use CableCARDs as their decryption mechanism. Prior to this, adoption had proceeded slowly with 141,000 units by February 2006. By June 2009, there were over 14,000,000 CableCARDs deployed including 437,800 of which went into retail equipment."

2012-05-01, 03:48 PM	#8
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,568	I am willing to pay Rogers a few hundred dollars to support my CableCARD setup but I think this whole concept was suppressed by the cable cos in the US. But there has been a dearth of devices available until very recently. So it is kind of a chicken and egg situation. In the last year we have started to see more intersting devices in the HTPC space that use CableCARD with multi-tuner devices for WinMC being released by Ceton, SiliconDust and Hauppauge. And Ceton is coming out with a new whole home system called the Q with extenders called the Echo (there is a least one other company offering a similar device). But none of these devices are any use to Canadians. But the potential availability of CableCARDS could give Consumer Electronics manufacturers the incentive to make theses devices. God knows can use it as even with some recent improvements the software in the Rogers PVRs is horrible.

2012-05-04, 02:14 AM	#10
yyzlhr Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 668	It would be great if Rogers supported Cablecard. I would gladly give up ROD in order to have my own media centre setup. I'm not sure why no Canadian cable companies implemented it. They could charge a monthly fee for renting a cablecard, that would certainly have a higher profit margin then renting out an STB as most of the rental revenue goes back into refurbishing and distributing returned STBs back into the rental pool. I don't think CableCards are as prone to failure as the STB.

2012-05-07, 08:31 PM	#11
Joethedragon Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 38	in USA we want to be able to buy the cable box and not be forced to rent it or have to pay high outlet fees. With cable card most systems force to rent them and some hit you with a outlet fee as well. the sat systems let you buy the box but the mirroring fee is the same as the rent fee and a DVR fee and HD fee is also needed as well even when you OWN the box.