Splitting Feed Properly - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

JT85 · 2012-03-01, 04:34 PM

Hi all,
I'm in an apartment with service from Eastlink for Internet, Digital Cable and VoIP Phone.
The way the service guy set up the connection is as follows:

[From outside] connects to a [4-way splitter].
[4-way splitter] connects to:
1 - [VoIP Modem]
2 - [Cable Modem]
3 - [Bedroom Wall Plate]
4 - [Living Room Wall Plate] -> Which then connects to [Digital Cable Box]

Everything is working dandily thus far. Although I want to relocate my [Cable Modem] to the same area as my [Digital Cable Box].

I'm not very knowledgeable in all this, so I did some research and from what I've learnt, I should avoid splitting the upstream leading the [Cable Modem] because of all the signal loss involved.
It occurred to me though that the splitter which was installed is not necessary in my desired setup. So I've devised this new setup, and I'm hoping someone could shed some light on whether or not I need to go through all this trouble.

[From outside] connects to a [3-way splitter]
[Leg 1 | -7db] connects to [VoIP Modem]
[Leg 2 | -7db] connects to [Bedroom Wall Plate]
[Leg 3 | -3.5db] connects to [Living Room Wall Plate]

[Living Room Wall Plate] connects to [2-way splitter]
[Leg 1 | -3.5db] connects to [Digital Cable Box]
[Leg 2 | -3.5db] connects to [Cable Modem]

If I'm not mistaken, the actually signal should be the same when it gets to the [Cable Modem], correct?

I apologize for the long post, I just don't want to spend money where I don't need to.

DTPBcableguy · 2012-03-02, 01:37 AM

It's the exact same. Just make sure everything is tight when you are done. The biggest problem with modem packet loss is a loose connection to the wall outlet or splitter.

By the way it's not VOIP it's digital phone. VOIP is internet driven usually through your cable internet or ADSL.

JT85 · 2012-03-02, 08:07 AM

Gotcha!

Thanks for quick reply.

Side question: The 4-way splitter installed by the tech reads "7db" on all legs and not "-7db". Is that still the same? And how come some splitters I've seen say "4db" or "5.7db". Do all those indicate the loss occurring because of the split?

- Edit -
I researched it a bit more, and I guess the -5.7db occurs if the splitter truly splits the signal 3 ways. I'm still not 100% sure of the 4db that I've seen... are they rounding up or something?

JT85 · 2012-03-03, 01:17 PM

Ok, so I found these splitters at Home Depot:
http://www.idealindustries.com/produ..._splitters.jsp

How do I know if the 2-way splitter is [3.5db] on each leg and the 3-way splitter is 7db, 7db, 3.5db ?

Should I assume that if it's not labelled then it's the default?

Thanks

denben73 · 2012-03-03, 07:27 PM

I'm just curious, but have you called EastLink to see what they would charge to move the cable modem?

If costs the same or even less (or free) it may be worth it if problems arise in the future, because they would be responsible for it they set it up.

Just putting it out there, that's all. Although I do understand the idea of doing it yourself.

JT85 · 2012-03-03, 07:45 PM

The customer support agent told me it would cost $85 for the service call. "Assuming all goes well"...

Besides, if it doesn't work well, I can return the splitters and put it back as it was. Where as the service call is non refundable.
And I'm sort of scared that they'll just leave the 4-way splitter and add a 2-way splitter at the wall plate then call it a day.

denben73 · 2012-03-03, 07:58 PM

$85???????

Do it yourself! *LOL*

denben73 · 2012-03-04, 09:43 AM

It's really hard to say.

I'm assuming there are no db numbers on the 4-way splitter. My cable comes into the house gets split four ways, one leg to digital phone, one leg directly to upstairs TV, one leg to another room and one leg goes to the bedroom where the modem is located (not in that particular order). The feed to the modem is split again because this line originally was in my TV tuner and I didn't want to give it up, so he put in a 2-way splitter.

What brand is your 4-way splitter?

frenchfry35 · 2012-03-13, 09:14 PM

JT just call them and put in a service call for .... lets say cat chewed through cable cord. Eastlink do not charge for service calls, I know cause I work as a maintenance tech. But basically , you should try to balance your splitter loss equally.But if you want to move your modem to another room where your tv is yoiu'll need a 3-way un-balanced splitter ( 7db,7db,3db loss on each spiggot) then in the room where your modem is going to go just a regular 2 way splitter ( 3db ,3db ) AND PLEASE DO NOIT USE THOSE PUSH ON CABLES/CONNECTORS!!!! lol

greenshadow · 2012-03-15, 07:40 AM

yup sounds about right just make sure that the line is split correctly also make sure your connections are nice and tight like frenchfry said do not use the slip on type as they cause multiple issues. also dont leave any empty spots on a spliter. you dident say if you have the whole home pvr but if you do there should be a filter on the line to your modem make sure you move that filter with the modem if you dont it cause cause issues with the pvr and modem.

file · 2012-03-15, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTPBcableguy

It's the exact same. Just make sure everything is tight when you are done. The biggest problem with modem packet loss is a loose connection to the wall outlet or splitter.

By the way it's not VOIP it's digital phone. VOIP is internet driven usually through your cable internet or ADSL.

I disagree on your statement about it not being VoIP. The most common usage of VoIP is over the internet since a lot of providers are able to offer lower prices, but service on a closed network like cable or fiber is still considered VoIP and is a better use of VoIP since quality can be guaranteed end to end.

Paolo · 2012-03-15, 10:53 AM

Hi JT85,

The ideal connection should be main entry cable > 3-way splitter > 3.5db leg to cable modem, the 7db leg to the phone adaptor, and the other 7db leg to a cable that goes to your main tv splitter. the tv line can have a 2-way splitter, and go to each tv. if u want to move the modem to the tv room, just lenthen the wire from the modem;s 3.5db leg and run it to your tv so you have 2 coaxes. its important to have the split done at the main entrance rather than at the tv area your modem will get better signal this way.

DTPBcableguy · 2012-05-02, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by file

I disagree on your statement about it not being VoIP. The most common usage of VoIP is over the internet since a lot of providers are able to offer lower prices, but service on a closed network like cable or fiber is still considered VoIP and is a better use of VoIP since quality can be guaranteed end to end.

well we will agree to disagree then they are similar but... Digital phone operates on a dedicated server and assigns priority to the information sent over the network, and also means that the information is not transmitted over the public Internet. VOiP uses the internet to make the phone call..

file · 2012-05-03, 07:00 AM

My phone delivered over FTTH is the same way, but it's still VoIP. You are associating the act of using VoIP with the internet. You shouldn't because the network VoIP is carried over, as you have said by mentioning the digital phone service, is separate from the act of using packets to transport voice.

How about a business using VoIP internally and PRIs? That's not going over the internet and yet it's still VoIP.

The vast majority of people see providers who offer service and deliver it using their internet connection and thus have caused them to associate VoIP == phone over internet. Just not true.

2012-03-01, 04:34 PM	#1
JT85 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	Splitting Feed Properly Hi all, I'm in an apartment with service from Eastlink for Internet, Digital Cable and VoIP Phone. The way the service guy set up the connection is as follows: [From outside] connects to a [4-way splitter]. [4-way splitter] connects to: 1 - [VoIP Modem] 2 - [Cable Modem] 3 - [Bedroom Wall Plate] 4 - [Living Room Wall Plate] -> Which then connects to [Digital Cable Box] Everything is working dandily thus far. Although I want to relocate my [Cable Modem] to the same area as my [Digital Cable Box]. I'm not very knowledgeable in all this, so I did some research and from what I've learnt, I should avoid splitting the upstream leading the [Cable Modem] because of all the signal loss involved. It occurred to me though that the splitter which was installed is not necessary in my desired setup. So I've devised this new setup, and I'm hoping someone could shed some light on whether or not I need to go through all this trouble. [From outside] connects to a [3-way splitter] [Leg 1 \| -7db] connects to [VoIP Modem] [Leg 2 \| -7db] connects to [Bedroom Wall Plate] [Leg 3 \| -3.5db] connects to [Living Room Wall Plate] [Living Room Wall Plate] connects to [2-way splitter] [Leg 1 \| -3.5db] connects to [Digital Cable Box] [Leg 2 \| -3.5db] connects to [Cable Modem] If I'm not mistaken, the actually signal should be the same when it gets to the [Cable Modem], correct? I apologize for the long post, I just don't want to spend money where I don't need to.

2012-03-02, 08:07 AM	#3
JT85 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	Gotcha! Thanks for quick reply. Side question: The 4-way splitter installed by the tech reads "7db" on all legs and not "-7db". Is that still the same? And how come some splitters I've seen say "4db" or "5.7db". Do all those indicate the loss occurring because of the split? - Edit - I researched it a bit more, and I guess the -5.7db occurs if the splitter truly splits the signal 3 ways. I'm still not 100% sure of the 4db that I've seen... are they rounding up or something? Last edited by JT85; 2012-03-02 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Did further research.

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2012-03-02, 01:37 AM	#2
DTPBcableguy Rookie Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 17	It's the exact same. Just make sure everything is tight when you are done. The biggest problem with modem packet loss is a loose connection to the wall outlet or splitter. By the way it's not VOIP it's digital phone. VOIP is internet driven usually through your cable internet or ADSL.

2012-03-03, 01:17 PM	#4
JT85 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	Ok, so I found these splitters at Home Depot: http://www.idealindustries.com/produ..._splitters.jsp How do I know if the 2-way splitter is [3.5db] on each leg and the 3-way splitter is 7db, 7db, 3.5db ? Should I assume that if it's not labelled then it's the default? Thanks

2012-03-03, 07:27 PM	#5
denben73 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Timmins, ON Posts: 817	I'm just curious, but have you called EastLink to see what they would charge to move the cable modem? If costs the same or even less (or free) it may be worth it if problems arise in the future, because they would be responsible for it they set it up. Just putting it out there, that's all. Although I do understand the idea of doing it yourself.

2012-03-03, 07:45 PM	#6
JT85 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ontario Posts: 4	The customer support agent told me it would cost $85 for the service call. "Assuming all goes well"... Besides, if it doesn't work well, I can return the splitters and put it back as it was. Where as the service call is non refundable. And I'm sort of scared that they'll just leave the 4-way splitter and add a 2-way splitter at the wall plate then call it a day.

2012-03-03, 07:58 PM	#7
denben73 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Timmins, ON Posts: 817	$85??????? Do it yourself! LOL

2012-03-04, 09:43 AM	#8
denben73 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Timmins, ON Posts: 817	It's really hard to say. I'm assuming there are no db numbers on the 4-way splitter. My cable comes into the house gets split four ways, one leg to digital phone, one leg directly to upstairs TV, one leg to another room and one leg goes to the bedroom where the modem is located (not in that particular order). The feed to the modem is split again because this line originally was in my TV tuner and I didn't want to give it up, so he put in a 2-way splitter. What brand is your 4-way splitter?

2012-03-13, 09:14 PM	#9
frenchfry35 Rookie Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 10	JT just call them and put in a service call for .... lets say cat chewed through cable cord. Eastlink do not charge for service calls, I know cause I work as a maintenance tech. But basically , you should try to balance your splitter loss equally.But if you want to move your modem to another room where your tv is yoiu'll need a 3-way un-balanced splitter ( 7db,7db,3db loss on each spiggot) then in the room where your modem is going to go just a regular 2 way splitter ( 3db ,3db ) AND PLEASE DO NOIT USE THOSE PUSH ON CABLES/CONNECTORS!!!! lol

2012-03-15, 07:40 AM	#10
greenshadow Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sackville nb Posts: 160	yup sounds about right just make sure that the line is split correctly also make sure your connections are nice and tight like frenchfry said do not use the slip on type as they cause multiple issues. also dont leave any empty spots on a spliter. you dident say if you have the whole home pvr but if you do there should be a filter on the line to your modem make sure you move that filter with the modem if you dont it cause cause issues with the pvr and modem.

2012-03-15, 10:53 AM	#12
Paolo Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Regional Municipality of Durham Posts: 2,695	Hi JT85, The ideal connection should be main entry cable > 3-way splitter > 3.5db leg to cable modem, the 7db leg to the phone adaptor, and the other 7db leg to a cable that goes to your main tv splitter. the tv line can have a 2-way splitter, and go to each tv. if u want to move the modem to the tv room, just lenthen the wire from the modem;s 3.5db leg and run it to your tv so you have 2 coaxes. its important to have the split done at the main entrance rather than at the tv area your modem will get better signal this way.

2012-05-03, 07:00 AM	#14
file Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Riverview, NB Posts: 761	My phone delivered over FTTH is the same way, but it's still VoIP. You are associating the act of using VoIP with the internet. You shouldn't because the network VoIP is carried over, as you have said by mentioning the digital phone service, is separate from the act of using packets to transport voice. How about a business using VoIP internally and PRIs? That's not going over the internet and yet it's still VoIP. The vast majority of people see providers who offer service and deliver it using their internet connection and thus have caused them to associate VoIP == phone over internet. Just not true.