GH for 12-13dB across VHF-HI & UHF? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

wildwillie · 2010-09-28, 05:51 PM

well does anyone want to help beef up my VHF hi GH

I'm currently looking at 13 db for 195mhz on the VHF HI band
and have about 12.5 at 585mhz for UHF band

I will post up the NEC file if anyone wnat to work on this baby with me. Theres a TOp hat

lmao and close to 300ohms for match
heres a look at it

Yes them there are directors and they range from 26 inches to 26.5 inches and the reflector is spaced out back 15 inches and the directorsstart out front at 18 inches all this antenna is in the 48 inches set out at the start of this project not to exceed width of 48 inches and lenght of 48 inches

Oh yes the GH i used in this project was from this design
hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm

300ohm · 2010-09-28, 10:39 PM

Yeah, post the NEC file.

wildwillie · 2010-09-29, 08:32 PM

Just for you 300ohms

I ajusted the directors for less swr below 2 at 195
work in progress I also have had this design running 12db from 195mhz to 213mhz(hint play with director size go low )
I found that with the tophat placed to the back we now can rase or lower the f/b

Code:

CM Orginal element hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CE
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GW	99	23	24	12.875	-17	24	-13.25	-17	0.1377953
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	195	0
RP 0 1 36 1001 90 0 5.0 10 10000 0

wildwillie · 2010-09-29, 09:49 PM

the goal here is to have a 12 to 13 db antenna for VHF hi and uhf across the board or close to it.

300ohm · 2010-09-30, 01:14 AM

Quote:

I also have had this design running 12db from 195mhz to 213mhz(hint play with director size go low )

You mean shorter length directors for the higher channels.

It looks like theres some potential there with the NAROD directors.

wildwillie · 2010-09-30, 05:03 PM

yes 300ohms thank you ,your explaination , yes the shorting in lenght the NAROD directors a more even gain can be had and swr.

by sticking to the main design of 48in wide and 48 inches long you have all that room to make movement ajustments to the NAROD directors spacing to element and themselfs along with the element GH to reflector spacing

heres an exsample with NAROD directors at 17.75 inches for lenght. I used 2 sets of 4 you can use as many as you like if you can work them in to the projects figures and i have.

this exsample has a 10.9db at 190mhz to 213mhz hitting 11.5 db swr does come above 2 in the 213 range play with the rods and see you can rase and lower swr and gain mite drop to a low of 10.7 to 11.3
have a look at the SWR at 585mhz and the gain 14.1

14 db but thats out of the play ground area surpassing are 48 inches target in the VHF HI

Code:

CM hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm
CM Top Hat added and placed to back not over top of element
CM a wild willie omg not another idea lmao
CM this exsample has a 10.9db at 190mhz to 213mhz hitting 11.5 db 
CM SWR does raise above >2 
CE
GW	1	3	-2	-1.75	0	-2	1.709913	0	0.13779528
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GW	69	37	-15	22	7.5	-15	-22	7.5	0.1377953
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GW	74	33	-15	20	-17.5	-15	-20	-17.5	0.1377953
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GW	76	31	-15	18	32.5	-15	-18	32.5	0.1377953
GW	78	31	-15	18	-32.5	-15	-18	-32.5	0.1377953
GW	83	31	-15	18	37.5	-15	-18	37.5	0.1377953
GW	84	15	5	9.75	17	5	-8	17	0.1377953
GW	85	15	17	9.75	17	17	-8	17	0.1377953
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GW	87	15	33	9.75	17	33	-8	17	0.1377953
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GW	90	15	25	9.75	-15	25	-8	-15	0.1377953
GW	91	15	33	9.75	-15	33	-8	-15	0.1377953
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	2.49e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	1	0	0	195	0
RP 0 1 36 1001 90 0 5.0 10 10000 0

wildwillie · 2010-09-30, 05:07 PM

remember guys were taking on the VHF hi right now in this part of the project
keep checking different areas in the UHF band , 585 mhz or were every you like. you will see changes

Please take note of the NAROD directors ,GH elements and reflectors are all being made of the same Radius 3.5 mm . We only need to shop for one size wire . anyone have a program that can make designs for the main body to fit this all together that would be nice.

ota_canuck · 2010-09-30, 06:37 PM

I'm thinking that material choice will be crucial to make this a feasable build.

I'm just taking a stab at the weight issues with this antenna with [#8] 5/32" wire. About 15lbs element weight, plus the weigh of the supporting structural frame.

So, if wire diameter is a critical factor of tuning the design, then it would be best to study alternative materials vs weights first.

300ohm · 2010-09-30, 07:39 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking that material choice will be crucial to make this a feasable build.

Yep. The first model is using .2756" diameter material, not very common at all. I would suggest for the spans involved, 3/8" tubing (.375" diameter, .1875" radius) for the directors and reflectors. The element and NAROD material should be at least 10 gauge, preferably thicker.

ota_canuck · 2010-09-30, 08:30 PM

Has anyone ever built the basic GH elements using flat aluminium instead of round wire? I've been using flat 1/8" x 3/4" aluminium for the SH antenna elements and it's super light weight. Maybe flat aluminium for the elements and 3/8" aluminium tube for narods and directors to reduce the weight. And for the frame, possibly fiber glass rods would be lighter than PVC.

wildwillie · 2010-09-30, 09:34 PM

yes copper would be heavy ,aluminium materials what do we have for looking at: flat stock and solid wire and tubing?

and i have the GH running at 12.3 to 12.9 right now. i still dont like the SWR 2.45 at 213mhz 12.9db and the swr 2.89 at 190mhzwith a 12.3db

300ohm · 2010-09-30, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Has anyone ever built the basic GH elements using flat aluminium instead of round wire?

Yes, I built my foldable SBGH from 1" flat aluminum formica edging, which I have lots of. Works fine, with a bit better bandwidth in testing than wire. A few others have built foldable SBGHs with various flat aluminum sizes.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...=foldable+sbgh

ota_canuck · 2010-09-30, 10:31 PM

I checked your foldable SBGH link. What ever happened with that small GH design? That antenna element was built with the flat side of the aluminium facing forward.

I build the SH flat aluminium with the 1/8" edge facing front and back and the 3/4" flat toward the sides. So, the front and back of the element has a 1/8" wire size equivalent at the face of the elements. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...&postcount=316

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?
And how much impact would flat vs round element materials have?

The 1/8"x 3/4" flat aluminium is featherweigh compared to 1/8th copper or galvanized wire.

wildwillie · 2010-09-30, 11:55 PM

aluminium paint ? will it work .If so then fiber glass poles could be dipped or painted . would anyone have some paint to test out on a simple element design ?

Quote:

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?

for VHF hi the bigger the better , if you go and change all the wire sizes in NEC number 2 postb 6, to all #14 wire selection watch what happens to swr

300ohm · 2010-10-01, 12:03 AM

Quote:

How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR?

It depends on what frequency. For example, on a simple dipole, once the element diameter increases greater in some proportional wavelength, the antenna no longer behaves like a dipole, but rather more like a bowtie.

Quote:

And how much impact would flat vs round element materials have?

That would have to be modeled for each antenna, and modeling flat bar stock is a pain.

Quote:

The 1/8"x 3/4" flat aluminium is featherweigh compared to 1/8th copper

I dont know about that, they would have to be weighed. A five foot piece of 1/8" diameter copper wire doesnt weigh much.

2010-09-28, 10:39 PM	#2
300ohm Veteran Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Somewhere in Delaware on the flat side Posts: 7,011	Yeah, post the NEC file. __________________ My builds/plans (not the latest models) are located here.

2010-09-30, 08:30 PM	#10
ota_canuck Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dunnville, Ontario on the Grand River, North shore Lake Erie Posts: 2,405	Has anyone ever built the basic GH elements using flat aluminium instead of round wire? I've been using flat 1/8" x 3/4" aluminium for the SH antenna elements and it's super light weight. Maybe flat aluminium for the elements and 3/8" aluminium tube for narods and directors to reduce the weight. And for the frame, possibly fiber glass rods would be lighter than PVC. __________________ 3D SSH III with ZZ4 refl. http://imageshack.us/user/jmsdigital

2010-09-30, 10:31 PM	#13
ota_canuck Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dunnville, Ontario on the Grand River, North shore Lake Erie Posts: 2,405	I checked your foldable SBGH link. What ever happened with that small GH design? That antenna element was built with the flat side of the aluminium facing forward. I build the SH flat aluminium with the 1/8" edge facing front and back and the 3/4" flat toward the sides. So, the front and back of the element has a 1/8" wire size equivalent at the face of the elements. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...&postcount=316 How much impact does the wire diameter have on gain/SWR? And how much impact would flat vs round element materials have? The 1/8"x 3/4" flat aluminium is featherweigh compared to 1/8th copper or galvanized wire. __________________ 3D SSH III with ZZ4 refl. http://imageshack.us/user/jmsdigital

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2010-09-28, 05:51 PM	#1
wildwillie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	GH for 12-13dB across VHF-HI & UHF? well does anyone want to help beef up my VHF hi GH I'm currently looking at 13 db for 195mhz on the VHF HI band and have about 12.5 at 585mhz for UHF band I will post up the NEC file if anyone wnat to work on this baby with me. Theres a TOp hat lmao and close to 300ohms for match heres a look at it Yes them there are directors and they range from 26 inches to 26.5 inches and the reflector is spaced out back 15 inches and the directorsstart out front at 18 inches all this antenna is in the 48 inches set out at the start of this project not to exceed width of 48 inches and lenght of 48 inches Oh yes the GH i used in this project was from this design hov15-hovzz3-RgaplessN12z2_D7mm_diffev_7mm7mm

2010-09-29, 09:49 PM	#4
wildwillie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	the goal here is to have a 12 to 13 db antenna for VHF hi and uhf across the board or close to it.

2010-09-30, 05:07 PM	#7
wildwillie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	remember guys were taking on the VHF hi right now in this part of the project keep checking different areas in the UHF band , 585 mhz or were every you like. you will see changes Please take note of the NAROD directors ,GH elements and reflectors are all being made of the same Radius 3.5 mm . We only need to shop for one size wire . anyone have a program that can make designs for the main body to fit this all together that would be nice.

2010-09-30, 06:37 PM	#8
ota_canuck Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dunnville, Ontario on the Grand River, North shore Lake Erie Posts: 2,405	I'm thinking that material choice will be crucial to make this a feasable build. I'm just taking a stab at the weight issues with this antenna with [#8] 5/32" wire. About 15lbs element weight, plus the weigh of the supporting structural frame. So, if wire diameter is a critical factor of tuning the design, then it would be best to study alternative materials vs weights first. __________________ 3D SSH III with ZZ4 refl. http://imageshack.us/user/jmsdigital

2010-09-30, 09:34 PM	#11
wildwillie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 280	yes copper would be heavy ,aluminium materials what do we have for looking at: flat stock and solid wire and tubing? and i have the GH running at 12.3 to 12.9 right now. i still dont like the SWR 2.45 at 213mhz 12.9db and the swr 2.89 at 190mhzwith a 12.3db