CRTC Public Proceeding on DTV in Canada: May 6, 2010

[DdDave]

On of the other items being evaluated is the public education policy. I think this is going to get a very cool reception from the BDU's because they are not going to want to educate the public about an alternative to paying the monthly cable/sat bill, but it's going to be important.

The father of a friend of mine had a CECB box for about a year and didn't want to attempt to hook it up as a result had been missing all the American channels (only had Toronto analogues). When my friend finally was over and hooked it up they were happy they could finally get back their lost channels. In the American education campaign they made a point of asking the public to help out their friends and neighbours who were not capable of figuring out the CECB's so they didn't just go dark after the transition. That style of education will be critical to a successful transition.

Pretty much all of us on this forum don't have issues tinkering around with any tv system, but there is a large portion of the public that gets overwhelmed with this type of technical stuff and will need time to get the equipment and get it hooked up.

[AmowAgou]

Originally Posted by stampeder;109244as a TV0

My intervention will include my strong opinion that any Converter Boxes to be distributed by a government-led plan must have the following technical features in order to properly accommodate the needs of Canadian consumers:

• HDMI A/V (or else TOSLINK audio output (coax and/or optical) with HDMI video)
• Composite
• S-Video
• Component
• Dolby Pro Logic II over analogue RCA R-L jacks

I'm also of the opinion that retailers would have to charge a predetermined price or less.

I am not sure if the above was meant to be a joke.

If the goverment is going to subsidize the box, digital to analogue RF Ch 3/4 is all required, nothing more.

I don't want to subsidize anyone who uses a HD digital display monitor or $2000 front video projector as a TV.

[mr weather]

I tend to agree. A basic digital-to-analog box is all that the government (my tax dollars) should consider subsidizing.

But, they're really going to have to get a move on it as far as education is concerned. We're less than 18 months from the "official" conversion. The US had much more lead time and still they pushed the date back four months.

[ecarlino016]

Many if not all of us adapted our methods of watching TV via a voluntary upgrade when we switched to digital.

Why should people using the antiquated analogue only system be subsidized?

I would suggest the government send information of where to go to get an upgraded box. (ie: futureshop or equivalent).

Then the user can pay for it himself. Im simply confused......

I myself have 2 additional small TVs that would require a conversion box but I dont consider a subsidy is required.

Seems like money poorly spent. Didnt we recently protest additional cable bills going to local tv stations? I think the CRTC has their priorities messed up.

EC

[Blackburst]

I would think a basic digital to analog box would be good enough. After all, think about what those boxes will be connected to. Probably a 10-15 year old NTSC CRT.

I don't think anybody above the poverty line should be given a box. If you did your 2009 taxes (or will do next years 2010 taxes), and it shows that you are below the poverty line, then they should send you a coupon in the mail that can offset the price for you. And only if your residence on the tax form indicates you live in one of the CRTC's mandated DTV transition markets. No need in having too many coupons not being used, and then being sold at a discount to others. The coupons should not be to get a free box, but a discount. Perhaps $40 off the box. The coupons should have a code on them to insure that only one can be used, and that through the code it's assigned to a tax payer. Also, only one coupon per household in case there are two or more separate tax forms being filled.

If you have a HDTV without a built in Tuner. There are digital boxes currently on the market that will allow you to put that TV to use. No need to wait for a basic converter box.

One thing that needs to be considered is the second hand market. Plenty of those converter boxes will be returning into the market from US owners as they purchase new HDTV's. Those boxes can be found on the web. In fact, I have seen some of those boxes going for $25 on the Montreal craiglist. If there is a basic charge demanded by the government on boxes, then there is a good chance that those $25 boxes will be raised in price to match the governments min. charge. So, watch out about asking such things.

One thing that the CRTC must do is force OTA station to offer info spots about DTV. Much in the same way the FCC did.

1 - All current OTA stations that are currently running a DTV signal, must run info spots on how to get their DTV signal in their market. This means how to get the signal by OTA, not cable, nor Sat. They must not even be allowed to suggest going for a BDU. They need to indicate as well what channel they are broadcasting on as well in their station ID's every hour.

2 - Those stations not currently running a DTV signal, but must convert by Sept 2011, must also run spots indicating how their signal can be received OTA on that date. Meaning preparing the viewer for the transition.

3 - The CRTC needs to put up a DTV website such as the FCC did with www.dtv.gov

4 - Converter boxes with analog pass thru must be the only boxes that OTA stations, and the CRTC must recommend to viewers. Buyer beware.

5 - OTA stations in their info spots must also talk about TV antennas. Such as old antennas can still work. Keep indoor antennas away from electronic equipment that may effect your reception results. Also, if stations are not returning to their old VHF channels, and plan on using UHF, this must be indicated that a antenna with UHF abilities is needed for best result.

If the CRTC doesn't do this, then I suggest Federal Government step in and order the CRTC to do it.

[hugh]

I don't think anybody above the poverty line should be given a box.

So we're going to spend millions to have a means test so we know who to give free converter boxes too?

Honestly folks, our governments create laws every year that cost consumers tons of money. Just recently, our local government made us start paying for our garbage cans, raised rates at our local pool, and a nickel for a plastic bag.

Governments force additional costs on consumers every day so why should we be giving out Digital Television welfare?

honestly, if poor people need more money then cut their taxes or raise welfare rates. If those poor people decide to take that extra $100 and buy food instead of a DTV box well then I guess they will just have to go without television!

[Blackburst]

Hugh...I'm on your side. I don't think we should have TV welfare. The reason I suggest the poverty line was because they'll try and give out boxes to everybody. That is the kinda mentality that runs crazy in the country. I live in Quebec, you want to see runaway nutty spend tax payers money programs... nightmares beyond your wildest ideas.

[JamesK]

^^^^
The U.S. program allowed composite and S-video connections.

[JamesK]

Why should people using the antiquated analogue only system be subsidized?

Some people may be happy with their old analog sets. However, the conversion will render those sets useless for OTA. So, since the government took away their ability to receive TV, the U.S. government subsidized the converters so the people were more or less back where they started, without signifcant expense.

[USA CBC fan]

My own thoughts on this issue:

The Canadian market for these boxes will be far smaller than the U.S. market was, first, because Canada has far fewer people (thus fewer customers) than the U.S., second, because many areas are being left out of the DTV transition (these are, by and large, smaller markets, but they add up to a large portion of Canadian households), and third, because cable penetration in Canada is even greater than it is in the U.S. (Canadian cable had been about a decade ahead of the U.S. at one point).
Thus, I would tend to advise against prescribing too many mandates on what should go into a Canadian CECB, lest no manufacturer decide to participate.

Many of the few DTV converter boxes still in production for the US market actually are HDTV capable. The market for the CECB units almost completely ended when the coupon program did, and most manufacturers have already stopped production of CECBs (in fact, many had stopped production before transition, before the first coupons expired, the program was expanded, the transition delayed, and there was a shortage of the boxes in the U.S. while dismantled production lines in China had to be rebuilt for the restarting of production).
I say do not mandate component video nor HDMI outputs, but permit them. Maybe more people would participate with the program if they thought their boxes would have more utility in the future.

Two things I thought should have been mandatory for the US boxes, but were not, and should be required on Canadian CECBs:

1) Provision for entry (and/or add-on memory) by actual RF channel.
Not every market has a CN Tower. Many have their local transmitters scattered in different locations. Under analog, viewers were accustomed to turning the rotator or repositioning the "rabbit ears" to get a good picture after they changed the channel.
In digital, it is not that easy. If one only has the automatic channel scan to program their DTV receiver, they might not be able to receive all of the channels locally available. A viewer between London and Kitchener may be faced with a choice of being able to watch CBC from London or CTV from Baden Hill, but not both! IMHO, this is actually the biggest source of dissatisfaction with DTV in the U.S. - only the unhappy viewers don't even understand the cause of their problems.

2) Have a standard to limit self-induced interference from/to CECBs. A huge problem with indoor antenna DTV reception (especially on VHF and all but insurmountable on lowband VHF) is RFI from the switching power supply and/or the video and microelectronics in the converter itself effectively jamming the desired DTV signal at the nearby antenna. Some brands have been worse than others, with metal-cabinet boxes (Zenith, Sansonic, etc.) being better off than plastic boxes (Philco, Zinwell, etc.), but not immune.

[twinz]

Just because there is waste in the system already certainly does not excuse throwing further money from our pockets down the proverbial well on yet another assistance program for things that are wants and not needs. There's 18 months left until we officially go digital, and as others have said, chances are this will get some delay. If an education program is put in place to teach people about the changes and what they need to do, it gives people perhaps 10-12 months to evaluate their needs, save some cash, then to buck up and buy their own without stealing more money from me to fund their sofa time.

Given cheap boxes came in around the $100 range, I would suggest that if people can't afford to set aside $10 a month to purchase one a year or so down the line that they have far more serious concerns they should be working on than how to watch tv, and I sure as heck shouldn't have to pay explicitly for their entertainment.

[ScaryBob]

I find it kind of odd that some governments don't mind spending money to make sure everyone has TV but balk at providing universal housing, health care or government mandated garbage cans for sanitation. Why are our priorities so warped?

[classicsat]

Originally Posted by JamesK

^^^^
Quite so. Those coupon program converters were intended only to replace the function of the now useless tuner. A digital signal, connected via composite or S-video, will already result in an improved picture on most sets.

The Coupon program allowed composite, even S-video (although the S-video equipped models were few). Component and HDMI were prohibited, for the government did not want to be subsidising premium features, which as I said could be afforded by those that would want them.

[classicsat]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

My first HD set, was and is a CRT and does not have a digital tuner in it. It would be great, to be able to use this set with a digital television signal.

You can. Nobody is saying you cannot. You just have to buy your own at market price if you want HD.

[tvlurker]

Originally Posted by ScaryBob

I find it kind of odd that some governments don't mind spending money to make sure everyone has TV but balk at providing universal housing, health care or government mandated garbage cans for sanitation. Why are our priorities so warped?

It does seem strange, but apparently people in the US rely on TV for emergency preparedness. I think the whole coupon program was based on not cutting people off from hurricane warnings, rather than providing cheap entertainment.

Somehow, I'm more inclined to rely on radio for emergencies, but maybe that's because I grew up in an area with frequent hydro blackouts, so TV wasn't available.