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Old 2010-03-17, 09:01 PM   #31
Moose57
 
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Quote:
Traffic Management Policies

Shaw uses traffic management policies to ensure proportional access to its network for all Shaw Internet customers. Some Peer-to-Peer (P2P) applications used for non real-time file sharing can consume a disproportionate amount of upstream bandwidth causing disruption to other customers on Shaw’s network. Shaw’s traffic management policies were introduced to quickly address any upstream congestion caused by these P2P applications while standard network expansion activities are undertaken to increase the bandwidth availability for all users.

Shaw’s traffic management policies come into effect only if upstream network congestion occurs on a network segment. If congestion occurs, the traffic management policies reduce the amount of upstream bandwidth available for P2P applications completing non real-time file transfer activity to 80 kbps per end-user.

Shaw’s traffic management policies do not affect download speeds and will not affect real-time interactive activities such as on-line gaming, banking, e-mail or VoIP services. For the majority of Shaw customers the Internet experience is unaffected by our traffic management policies and both upstream and downstream bandwidth will be available to ensure the full operation of any application.

The traffic management policies implemented by Shaw use IP addresses to make real-time traffic management decisions in relation to Shaw’s network. Since IP addresses have the potential to be linked to an individual’s customer account, IP addresses could be considered personal information. The traffic management policies implemented by Shaw do not involve capturing, storing or archiving this information in any way.
Given their statement that our downstream remains unaffected seems inconsistent with reports.
What is the relationship between upstream and downstream as it pertains to P2P traffic?

If we 'mange' our upstreams to a level that sits below the radar, could we effectively not trigger traffic management and thus self regulate?

I often see a Dl at a given speed and yet my UL to them can be much higher.
How do we find the happiest balance for all?
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Old 2010-03-25, 07:20 AM   #32
mike70sk
 
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I have high speed express for 18 months normally i would get 222 k/b a sec, now im getting dial up or less, 5 kb or worse. This is a joke Shaw is slowing down bittorent traffic why would i pay for a faster service if i cant even get full back bone on my 2mbs connection. Here is an article i came across

Customers of the Canadian broadband cable company Shaw have been complaining that their Bit Torrent downloads have grown increasingly sluggish. One self-proclaimed company insider claims the carrier has started using Packet Shaping technology to throttle the bandwidth of the ISP's Bit Torrent users.

"This came about due to customer complaints about High-Speed Internet being... well... not high-speed," the self-professed insider proclaims. "Turns out there was a lot (A LOT) in BT traffic in Vancouver, so much so that it was causing congestion in the RF/Fiber cable plant, or so I've been told. Cost to fix: $2 to $3 million".

Instead of spending the big bucks to upgrade capacity, the company allegedly green-lighted the use of an Ellacoya switch to limit Bit Torrent traffic at various hubs on the Shaw network. While the idea started in the Cordova area of Vancouver, the source claims, it has now been applied to the entire Shaw network in order to regain some of their "lost" bandwidth.

Such bandwidth managers are most frequently used at Universities looking to keep bandwidth available for more legitimate activities. There's a significant number of ISP's exploring and already using the option (companies like Ellacoya are part of a $200 million market), but it's not something they quickly publicize, in order to avoid user complaints and bad PR.

The decision to focus on limiting Bit Torrent traffic specifically is a big deal however, since, as Reuters reiterated yesterday, 35% of all web traffic is now Bit Torrent. Not all of that traffic is illegal; users use Bit Torrent to distribute all matter of files and it's used in a number of new applications, from spam-blockers to system backup. Of course plenty of it is illegal, and Torrent is estimated to contribute to 55% of all p2p pirate activity.

Of course once you take the route of throttling applications, users - when not giving you a verbal black eye - begin their quest to get around the bandwidth blockade. Shaw users are already eyeing open-source pre-alpha workarounds (like Rodi), waiting for them to evolve in order to beat the efforts of the ISP's.


I know other people having this problem with bittorrent and not only shaw but sasktel too.
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Old 2010-03-25, 12:31 PM   #33
springle
 
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I don't have any Torrent clients on my PC. And I live in Greater Vancouver.

However, I have encountered several traffic slowdowns. Using Shaw's speedtest, I have noticed D/L speeds of around 10 kbps instead of the normal 14.2 mbps and U/L speeds of zero (unmeasurable after 15 minutes of trying). In fact I have been unable to send out e-mails when this slowdown occurs.

The slowdown usually occurs at around 7 PM. I was impacted last Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, but not last night (Wednesday). However, if I am not sending out an e-mail or engaged in some other activity, I might have missed a slowdown. My speed returns when it feels like it.

So I have phoned their Tech Support several times. I encounter the usual approach. Namely, that if I have a problem it must be my fault, or the fault of my equipment. I bypassed my router and my desktop PC and still encounter the slowdown problem. (The problem is confounded by its seemingly randomness. Hence, the first time I bypassed the router my speed returned and the Shaw Tech Suppost decided that my router was the problem. But when I returned the router to the path, the problem was still absent. Shaw only remembers the first part. On my last experience, I shut down my desktop, reset their modem and connected my laptop directly to their modem and measured the same slow speeds, but after about an hour, the normal speeds returned on their own accord. So absent my router and my desktop, the problem still appears. Let's see, that leaves....)

I argued with them that the throttling they are doing must be the source of my problem, but they deny it. On several occasions, my D/L speed was near normal (5 to 10 mbps) but spastic in nature, whereas the upload measured in at zero.

A non-KISS situation. As we make our systems more complex, the problems we encounter become more complex and difficult to solve. When the Shaw tech person comes today, I don't expect a solution. Too many parameters to consider. We will likely all be befogged.
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Old 2010-03-25, 05:40 PM   #34
faston
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mike70sk and springle: Did you try the fix that I outlined in post #18? Works every time for me.
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Old 2010-03-26, 02:08 AM   #35
mike70sk
 
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Hey Faston i already have me max upload set at the minim in utorrent which is 1kb. I would like to upload more but shaw limits my up and my down to 60 gigs a month. The way things are downloading now i might just have to stop watching movies. Esp HD movies because i will never be able to download them due to size and speed. Springle thats really bad. and that's shaws typical response to blame the customer and not take any responsibility for it. IF your not getting the download speeds you are paying for, might as well switch to the cheapest high speed there is. Shaw advertises like 25megsnit speed for over 100 dollars, with a few exceptions i seriously dought you would ever download anything at the speed. The internet has become so conjusted at any speed now and the cable company s aren't willing to pay for there upgrades.
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Old 2010-03-27, 07:48 PM   #36
sebberry
 
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Personally I think shaping and throttling is.. well.. wrong.

Many people use high-speed connections for simple web browsing. I for example have Shaw's Extreme service and use it mostly for browsing forums, news sites, etc... I like the extra speed for when I *do* download large files, including ones from iTunes, Torrents, etc...

I pay for the speed so I have it when I need it, not so it can be throttled down to lite-speed.

Shaw has always been good at upgrading their networks and they need to get better at it. What next? With so much digital media, online streaming, "could computing", etc... many new bandwidth-hungry services are showing up.

I'd like to see Shaw throttle online movie rentals when more and more people use those services. Nothing like having to wait 4 hours for your movie to buffer on movie night...

If I pay for a 25Mbps connection, that's what I expect.
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Old 2010-03-29, 05:18 PM   #37
Moose57
 
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Then when you don't get it, ask for a credit that month to what is appropriate and/or withhold whatever dollars are relevant.
Then they'll get the picture that your not playing games.

If they don't play ball, then punt them.
That's what I did, I went through one of the bulk wholesalers and get the same damn service for way less money and all the big profits don't go to Shaw.

Imagine how their balance sheet would look if the majority went to the wholesaler and they didn't get that extra 50% revenue off the top that is all gravy for them.

I've already posted about their rip off internet in another thread here, so I don't need to repeat it.

I think of it as the cartoon at he HiFi shop that runs an ad for speakers for seniors, why spend money on stuff you can't hear anyways.

Why buy the premium speeds when it's not there for what you do?
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Old 2010-03-31, 12:07 PM   #38
WetCardboard
 
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If I'm using uTorrent I usually only DL two at a time and keep the max upload rate at 25KB/s for each. If your using a 15Mbps/1Mbps connection (Extreme-I) then your upload rate probably isn't any faster than 100KB/s for most applications, since I have other users using my network or I'm trying to stream HD content or play games, I keep 1/2 the upload stream open for that stuff.

Download is completely different, I could be downloading a file at 1MB/s on uTorrent and usually not notice any slowdown on other applications, as long as I keep my upload rate in check. The only bad part is it takes a lot longer to upload information to get a good share rating. So my advice, keep your upload rate in check...Shaw is less likely to notice if your not using 100% capacity of your connection for uploads.
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Old 2010-03-31, 09:37 PM   #39
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Shaw only throttles upstream traffic. Which is typically torrent related. If you are getting poor or inconsistent download speeds find a better torrent/tracker/router.

If you think throttling isn't necessary, try to imagine your connection if neighbors all around of you had torrents running 24/7 with no limits set. You would be be here complaining about a slow connection.

The throttling wouldn't affect your speed test results, but by simply downloading a torrent you will affect your connection speeds for hours/days after.

By running that torrent your IP is now listed on whatever tracker and on countless computers. Those computers are attempting connections continuously.

-Cad
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Old 2010-04-01, 02:51 AM   #40
Moose57
 
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Quote:
The throttling wouldn't affect your speed test results,
And just how is that?
Running NO BT, all well known speed test yield approx. 90% of rated speed for that particular service IE Normal.

Running BT, the same test drops to say 10% or less of posted speed.
There is definatly a direct correlation between the two.

One of the problem is the asymetric nature of DOCSIS and likely DSL as well as I've heard that an overload upstream can effect performance on a downstream.

I've also hear that most consumer routers will choke the connection as it's memory has a hard time dealing with hundreds of connections.

There may be some truth to this as often right after I reboot the router remotely, the BT speed is very high then falls off after more connection are made.

Unfortunately, I'm just not prepared to give up an appliance in favour of even an old PC with a pair of NICS running a Linux router, although it is rather tempting.

I have observed improved results by limiting my upload spped in attempts to stay under the radar.

It might also be useful to limit the number of connection so as not to flood the router tables.

Our greed for content might be our own worst enemy.
What are some "best practices' to follow for optimal performance?
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Old 2010-04-01, 12:26 PM   #41
Shawesome
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Wait, wut?

Your speeds drop by 10% when running BitTorrent, or to 10% of your regular speeds? The first makes sense, the second... unless you're just hammering away with a few torrents going at pretty high speeds, I find that hard to believe.
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Old 2010-04-01, 01:41 PM   #42
Moose57
 
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No No, drop TO 10% as in worse than dialup!

Yes hammering away for certain, but that's not the point.
Whether you have 1 BT running at full tilt or 10 running at a trickle, the point as many here have posted is they don't deliver what you pay for, plain and simple.
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Old 2010-04-01, 03:04 PM   #43
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I can vouch for huge drop in speeds (<<10% of advertised speed) when running well-seeded torrents. My case in East Van (Shaw gave us incentive to move to Telus by disconnecting our service when we were paid in advance and taking twice as long to reconnect than Telus took to start up new service), and my friend in N. Van. who could get no faster than 30 KB/s.
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Old 2010-04-01, 03:38 PM   #44
Moose57
 
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So I dropped my U/L to 10K so as not to affect the asymetric throttling of docsis on the D/L.

I then dropped the # of connections form 750 to 500 or maybe it was 250.
I dropped the number of slots from 8 to 6
Seems all those extra non productive connections just kill the speed.

And lo and behold, my torrents are screaming along at 300+K instead of 30K.

I think a lot has to do with overloaded routers and not being greedy and staying just below the throttle point.

Just like some traffic analysis that says you will actually get to your destination FASTER by actually going SLOWER, well not quite, but it seems to work.
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