OTA & PVR/HTPC, how do you make them work together?

[Knight]

Hi!

I was wondering how people handle the possibility that for some channels the antenna must be turned (using a rotor) with HTPC/PVR software like MythTV or MCE...

- Do you use a channel changer script to send IR command to the rotor control?

- Combine antennas?

- Turn the antenna in advance to the right position (kinda defeats the purpose of having a PVR/HTPC... )

- etc...

I didn't find an installer in time to install new antenna(s) before the winter (I am afraid of heights and if my approx 30 ft tower is still solid I want to use it) but I am planning in advance for next spring and I am not sure what I should be looking/asking for... I've been toying with the idea of using more than one antenna but I am still not quite sure if that's the best thing to do...

Thank you and Happy Holidays!

Nick

[TheIceMaster]

At this time, I just use 2 antennas and more tuners of different models to assign different lineup to them. For me:

4x HVR-950: OTA ATSC, Plattburghs/Burlington (ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/PBSx2)
2x HVR-1600/1800 (Digital): OTA ATSC, Montreal (SRC/CBC/TQS)
2x HVR-1600/1800 (Analog): Videotron Analog Cable

All configured in BeyondTV with MediaPortal as my FrontEnd that can launch BTV Link.

[recneps77]

Oh wow, why so many tuners? Are you really going to record 8 different programs at once? (and could a pc handle that much..?)

And Knight, it depends on your location as to how many antennas you need or what setup you need.
I'm in the GTA in such a position that I can point an antenna south at Buffalo and still pickup Toronto stations from the side in good quality.
If stations are in two opposite directions, you'd need two antennas, or a rotor, or perhaps more complex setups depending on your needs.

[TheIceMaster]

Originally Posted by recneps77

Oh wow, why so many tuners? Are you really going to record 8 different programs at once? (and could a pc handle that much..?)

At the moment, I am using 2 antennas because the 2 broadcast regions are separated by ~165-170degrees and I couldn't find a sweet spot between the two with my current antenna. I tried using the back lobes since I'm ~10km LoS from Montreal but it wasn't strong enough either. Therefore, I have 3 RG6 that goes to my PVR (1xOTA Montreal, 1xOTA Plattsburgh/Burlington and 1xAnalog Cable).

#1: Since I have never seen a PVR software that knows which antenna to use, I have to assign tuners to a specific market.

#2: If I were using 6xUSB HVR-950 (ie, the exact same tuners six times), neither I or the PVR software would be able to tell which is connected to what. Worst would be after a reboot, it may not recognize them in a different order and the assignation would be down the drain. To avoid this issue, I decided to go with different brands and/or models of TV Tuners to be able to simplify things. Luckily for me, the Hauppauge latest HVR series is excellent and works with alot of PVR softwares. I also picked a motherboard (MSI GA-M55Plus-S3G) with 3xPCI, 2xPCI-E (1x) and 1xPCI-E(16x) so I can expand as I need without forgetting the ~10 USB 2.0 ports available.

Do I use all 8 at once? Yes... but only during my tests! At peak, my PVR does record 4-5 shows at the same time on a regular basis, some days of the week, when the normal programming is on the air. You also have to consider that I can use those tuners remotely via BeyondTV Link (2x) to watch live TV. It'll use the proper tuner depending on the selected channel so it makes the 2 antenna setup seamless for me at this time when I use my HTPC but requires more tuners.

BTW, even if you count 4-5 of the 8 tuners I have available, it does use all the available tuners in a particular market at times (ie, using all the OTA MTL Tuners at the same time) which means I am borderline and would need to add more tuners unless I can find a way to get all my OTA reliably through a single RG6 feed. Only then could I have them all record whatever (which is my goal next summer).

Regarding my PVR, it handles all 8 feeds at the same time just fine while feeding 2xBeyondTV Link. I'm currently using an AMD X2 3800+ with 3GB RAM and 2xSeagate 320GB in RAID-0 to record shows. The only reason for 3GB of RAM is because it hosts some VMWare machines + PVR duties. The reason I have more HVR-950 is because I caught a boxing day deal at ~55$CAD tx&shipping included per tuner so I grabbed 2!

[Knight]

Hi!

Originally Posted by TheIceMaster

At the moment, I am using 2 antennas because the 2 broadcast regions are separated by ~165-170degrees and I couldn't find a sweet spot between the two with my current antenna.

Gee, your situation is even worse than mine...

I tried using the back lobes since I'm ~10km LoS from Montreal but it wasn't strong enough either. Therefore, I have 3 RG6 that goes to my PVR (1xOTA Montreal, 1xOTA Plattsburgh/Burlington and 1xAnalog Cable).

Have you looked into combining them?

#1: Since I have never seen a PVR software that knows which antenna to use, I have to assign tuners to a specific market.

This is something I could do though I don't have as many tuners as you (I would lose the possibility of recording/watching live tv from multiple programs from the same market...

Do I use all 8 at once? Yes... but only during my tests! At peak, my PVR does record 4-5 shows at the same time on a regular basis, some days of the week, when the normal programming is on the air.

Impressive...

You also have to consider that I can use those tuners remotely via BeyondTV Link (2x) to watch live TV. It'll use the proper tuner depending on the selected channel so it makes the 2 antenna setup seamless for me at this time when I use my HTPC but requires more tuners.

I was planning to possibly share my HDHomerun in a similar way between my PVR (MythTV) and PCs in the home (with the provided software). For now though the HDHomerun is mostly collecting dust as the local installer I was planning to use is no longer quite interested in doing antenna installations and I couldn't find a replacement in time (before winter...).

I am borderline and would need to add more tuners unless I can find a way to get all my OTA reliably through a single RG6 feed. Only then could I have them all record whatever (which is my goal next summer).

So you are looking into combining the signals... BTW, what antennas/kind of antennas do you have (CM4228, Yagis, XG13?)?

Regarding my PVR, it handles all 8 feeds at the same time just fine while feeding 2xBeyondTV Link. I'm currently using an AMD X2 3800+ with 3GB RAM and 2xSeagate 320GB in RAID-0 to record shows. The only reason for 3GB of RAM is because it hosts some VMWare machines + PVR duties.

All SD or a mix of SD and HD?

The reason I have more HVR-950 is because I caught a boxing day deal at ~55$CAD tx&shipping included per tuner so I grabbed 2!

Hmm, good deal...

Thank you very much and Happy new year!

Nick

[TheIceMaster]

This is getting very reception specific.. may be better suited in the appropriate OTA reception thread... I follow all QC threads so I can follow this too

Originally Posted by Knight

So you are looking into combining the signals... BTW, what antennas/kind of antennas do you have (CM4228, Yagis, XG13?)?

Yes and now not really.

I was using a CM4221 HomeMade clone for Montreal and a A-Neutronics AV-891 for the US feeds. Neither was good enough for both markets on their own. Both also had enough signal on some stations to cause major multipath/headaches so joining them would have required filters/CM jointenna which would have gotten quite costly.

Although the AV-891 is considered a crappy PoS by a few people here, it performs quite decently and was dirt cheap (less than 30$CAD incl. everything) and comes with a builtin rotor (that freezes in winter) and preamp but at at 115+km, its reaching its limit where I was still able to get 75-95% signals from the US stations. All in all, it was a decent purchase for someone who, at that time, knew nothing about ota reception but I wouldnt recommend it for long term use due to the build quality. My main gripe about it is that you cannot customize your setup by changing the preamp and the antenna itself is ordinary. You're stuck with what you have or nothing at all so I started looking for a replacement.

Moving on to this years boxing day deals, I ordered a 91XG for less than 70$CAD tx/shipping included locally (otherwise I would have gotten a CM4228 at Montcalm's). I received it yesterday and installed it aiming directly at Mt.Mansfield. At the moment, with the help of my Motorola DropAmp (15db/2.5NF), I am able to receive all the US networks at 85-95% (besides ABC on VHF) and the Montreal locals at 80-85%. The signals are stable yesterday's Friday Night Lights was without any pixelisation or dropouts. Without the dropamp, all US stations are fine except FOX at 70-75% and locals are in the 60-75%.

This was unexpected but a happy surprise as I always felt yagi antennas were VERY directional with excellent front to back. I may just be lucky, it may be my location, it may be the antenna location, it may be due to trees without any leaves... we'll see in the coming months how it holds up.

Originally Posted by Knight

All SD or a mix of SD and HD?

Mix: 6xHD and 2xSD.

[Knight]

Hi!

Sorry for the delay... Between the holidays and a few things I had to take care of I just found the time to reply to your posts... Sorry...

Originally Posted by recneps77

And Knight, it depends on your location as to how many antennas you need or what setup you need.

I'm near Montreal... I inputted the coordinates of my home and the emitters of the stations I would like to watch in Google Earth.

- The local stations are west of my location. They are about 20 miles from here. Some (most) of them are using temporary emitters which are not operating at full strength.

- Mount Lyon and Mount Mansfield (where the US emitters are) is, not surprisingly, to the south. Mount Lyon is more to the west while Mount Mansfield is more to the east. They are around 70 miles each from my location. Mount Mansfield is more than 90 degrees from the local stations, Mount Lyon maybe around 60-65 degrees.

I'm in the GTA in such a position that I can point an antenna south at Buffalo and still pickup Toronto stations from the side in good quality. If stations are in two opposite directions, you'd need two antennas, or a rotor, or perhaps more complex setups depending on your needs.

From reading the thread for my region I had the feeling that to get all the channels I want I would need a rotor or multiple antennas... Getting one of the tv stations in digital, WVNY, is already known to be somewhat problematic because it's not on UHF, it's on VHF (which the usually recommended CM4228 can get but up to a certain point, it's supposed to be a UHF antenna) and it's probably affected by other "local" tv stations.

Getting the signal of the temporary emitters may prove somewhat difficult from my location...

I was able to get to get, using a SIR-T451 and, of all things a Silver Sensor (a small antenna only made to get (very) local markets), a tv station from Mount Mansfield and a tv station from Mount Lyon. As soon as I was moving the antenna I was losing the signal and I had to keep it very close to the ceiling but I was able to watch both stations. These are tv stations whose emitters are 70 miles from here...

I was never able to do the same for the "local" stations (20 miles from here... ).

I guess I'll only know for sure when the antennas (and possibly the tower because I'm no longer quite sure if the current one is still ok) will be replaced but I am expecting that either a rotor or multiple antennas are going to be required...

Thank you very much for your help and Happy new year!

Nick

[classicsat]

Build a hardware interface from the rotor to the PC, and write a script to control it through the PC channel selector software. That is if I am fine with one tuner. Otherwise a buch of aimed an"cut" antannae combined to one or a couple feeds.

[Knight]

Hi!

Originally Posted by classicsat

Build a hardware interface from the rotor to the PC, and write a script to control it through the PC channel selector software. That is if I am fine with one tuner.

If I were to do this I could probably use the following script and configuration file provided in this post:

http://osdir.com/ml/hardware.lirc/2004-10/msg00045.html

Otherwise a buch of aimed an"cut" antannae combined to one or a couple feeds.

Very interesting idea... I wonder though how massive and costly the end result would be and if all of these antennas would interfere with each other as regular antennas are known to do... The other problem would be adding antennas if a new channel gets added as I can't do it myself (I'm afraid of heights...)...

Thank you very much and Happy new year!

Nick