The real reason why Canadian air travel is more expensive

[BillytheGreek]

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/the...-20120405.html

It’s been five years since U.S. low-cost airline JetBlue Airways applied for, and received, a licence to fly to Canadian cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. And yet there has yet to be a single JetBlue flight venturing north of the border. Why? “It’s hard to stimulate travel with low fares while operating in a high-cost environment,” says airline spokesperson Allison Steinberg

I took a flight from San Francisco to LAX cost me 140$ round trip, Montreal-Toronto is the same distance will cost you nearly triple. the amount. Does it make sense?

[GusX]

Fixed link: http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/the...-20120405.html

The impact of our pricey skies is most easily seen south of the border. As many as five million Canadians (15 per cent of the population) drive to U.S. airports to take advantage of lower airfares in cities like Buffalo, N.Y., Burlington, Vt., or Bellingham, Wash. A recent survey by the Hotel Association of Canada found that 30 per cent of Canadians say they plan to make the trek to the U.S. to fly next year.

I've been doing that for the last five years. The rates for flying from Plattsburgh, NY or Burlington, VT have been much lower than flying out of Montreal ... especially for a family of 5 Add in topping off in fuel and a grocery run and on the return trip makes it definately worth it.

[peano]

The fact that YYZ is probably the worst run airport in the free world has a lot to do with it I am sure. The GTAA screws the airlines with exorbitant fees and then screws up everything from customs to ground transportation to parking. It is a disaster.

Combine that with the terrible design of terminal one - get off the plane, walk and walk and walk. Then go up stairs, then down stairs, then up stairs, then down stairs etc, etc. Then go outside for a taxi and none are there. 400 of them are sitting in a parking lot waiting but the idiots at GTAA can't seem to organize anything.

[Jase88]

The full article (quoted above) goes into details of why landing fees as so excessive in this country.

It is crazy. Bureaucratic government bungling at it's best. Thus the reason smaller local Canadian airports are thriving (eg. Hamilton, Toronto Island, Waterloo-Wellington)--as they have much cheaper fees for landing. And why US boarder town airports are doing very well.

[Biggles]

Extremely high taxes and lack of competition in Canada equals high air fares for sure.

OT : Just came back from London LHR. YYZ has a competitor ! We experienced a two and a half hour line up to clear immigration in Terminal 5 (BA terminal).Apparently 1-2 hour wait is normal.There's 30+ desks ,but only a handfull of Officers on duty at any one time.On the way home we got stuck in an elevator between the Arrivals and Departures level for 25 minutes ,and our departure was from a remote stand via a few crowded buses.LHR T5 is a great shopping mall,but a third world airport terminal. I can only imagine what LHR will be like during the Olympics !

[nfitz]

Originally Posted by peano

The fact that YYZ is probably the worst run airport in the free world has a lot to do with it I am sure. The GTAA screws the airlines with exorbitant fees and then screws up everything from customs to ground transportation to parking. It is a disaster.

Wow, I can think of so many airports in North America, Europe, and Asia where I've had much worse experiences than Toronto. If you think Toronto is the worse run airport in the world, you need to travel a lot more. If you take Air Canada, US Customs, and the Canadian Armed Forces out of the equation, I can't think of a bad Toronto or Montreal experience off-hand in my years of flying out of there. I suppose the parking was a pain with old Terminal 1 ... but even it improved after Terminal 2 opened.

One difference between Toronto and many other airports in the USA, is that Toronto isn't subsidized. One advantage of a more socialist society like the US is that they will subsidize things like Airports.

Originally Posted by peano

Combine that with the terrible design of terminal one - get off the plane, walk and walk and walk. Then go up stairs, then down stairs, then up stairs, then down stairs etc, etc.

I really haven't ever been up and down like that. Given that baggage pick-up at any airport is at ground level, and the exit off the planes is way above ground level, then sooner or later your going to have to go down. And given many airports have a passage to the parking at an upper level, then you'll often have to go back up again. Though I've always used the escalator or elevator - not sure what your doing to have to go up stairs!

[753951]

Originally Posted by nfitz

I really haven't ever been up and down like that. Given that baggage pick-up at any airport is at ground level, and the exit off the planes is way above ground level, then sooner or later your going to have to go down. And given many airports have a passage to the parking at an upper level, then you'll often have to go back up again. Though I've always used the escalator or elevator - not sure what your doing to have to go up stairs!

Few moths ago, Calgary-Toronto-Lima (all on Air Canada). I haven't walked so much in my life on any airport like I had to do in Toronto. And I've been on every major airport in North America, Europe, and Japan. Could've been an exception, but every time I'm forced to visit YYZ I get one reason more to avoid it.

[JamesK]

^^^^
I passed through Atlanta airport back in January. That is one *HUGE* airport. The security areas of all the terminals are connected via a subway with 7 stops. The last stop on the line is in the public area, so it's very easy to move within the airport from one terminal to another. On the other hand, the Detroit airport is in an "H" shape, with a lot of walking, long escalators and powered walkway to get around to the various parts of the terminals.

[PhotoJim]

Originally Posted by 753951

Few moths ago, Calgary-Toronto-Lima (all on Air Canada). I haven't walked so much in my life on any airport like I had to do in Toronto. And I've been on every major airport in North America, Europe, and Japan. Could've been an exception, but every time I'm forced to visit YYZ I get one reason more to avoid it.

I've flown to, originated at or connected through Pearson airport about 55 times in my life and I've never found it to be all that bad.

On the other hand, when I fly from Regina to Denver, it takes forever to get from our gate at the far end of the international terminal (we seem to always get the most remote gate) to the Customs area. And then you have to take a train to another terminal to reclear security. Nice airport, but not fast.

[vmpv]

Perhaps I'm missing the point, but what does the distance one has to walk at Pearson have to do with why Canadian air travel is more expensive?

I do have a question about cost however. We booked a return flight to Aruba on Air Canada a few months ago for about $1500 for the pair from Toronto in the near future. Looking ahead to a February trip finds the same price on Air Canada jumps by about $1000 for the pair. Prices on U.S. carriers out of YYZ seemed to spike a few weeks ago but are now back to slightly under $1600 albeit with a short stopover in the States but not really impacting us that much on arrival and departure times in and from Aruba.

Being fairly new to the traveling game, I don't know whether to book the U.S. flights now or wait and see if Air Canada's prices drop to a level that make a direct flight worthwhile.

So I guess the question is, is Air Canada pricing themselves out of the market or should I expect a competitive price closer to our departure date?

[peano]

I really haven't ever been up and down like that.

I almost always arrive from the US and its up and down, up and down.....

[VE3YYZ]

Should try the up'n'down after a 15 hour flight from Hong Kong. The one benefi of the walk, it gets you awake.

Toronto is not bad for an airport. Try Manila when the international flights get in. If you can get through it in 90 minutes, you are lucky.

[nfitz]

Originally Posted by peano

I almost always arrive from the US and its up and down, up and down.....

Ah, all my arrivals from the USA have been at T2, and more recently T3; and before that old T1. Hmm, and all my international arrivals in the last few years have been at T3. I've only been arriving at new T1 on a few domestic flights. Part of my avoid Air Canada if I can help it policy in recent years, after some particular bad experiences just before they closed T2.

[Geo35]

Recently booked flights to europe for our summer family vacation. The airfare was $299..sounds like a great deal right? add in $475 each for taxes/fees and it's really just an ok deal. So for 3 tickets, the $900 total airfare balloons up to over $2300...ugh.

[Jase88]

Originally Posted by peano

The GTAA screws the airlines with exorbitant fees and then screws up everything from customs to ground transportation to parking. It is a disaster.

Certainly the airport authority system in Canada has contributed to higher fees.

Not sure of the validity of this, but I'm told that YYZ is the largest international airport in the world that lacks fixed-link rail service to the city centre. Certainly wouldn't surprise me. Yes, I'm aware that a rail system between YYZ and Union Station is in the works, but still...crazy.