FAQ - Recording HD

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Updated 2013.01.31

This question comes up frequently, so I’ve prepared the following summary:

This FAQ discusses legal HD recording. Hacking is not discussed on this forum.

Flags:

HD programmes may come with three possible “flags”. The flag indicates what you can do with that programme, from a recording standpoint. (this is in line with "fair use".)

1. Record Freely: This self-evident flag means that the programme may be recorded in HD on any device, as much as you want. This flag appears on OTA-type station programming. (5C setting = 0)

2. Record Once: This flag will allow you to record the programme once, but you cannot then make a copy of this programme. Since PCs are not “copy compliant” devices, you cannot record these programmes onto a PC – even once. The flag appears on “premium” cable or satellite programming. (5C setting = 1)

3. Record Never: This self-evident flag means that the programme cannot be recorded at all. This flag appears on PPV programming. A "buffer" of 1 hour or so may be allowed, but no recording/keeping. (5C setting = 2)

The broadcast flag is set by the broadcaster, the 5C setting is set on the STB, usually by the service provider. They accomplish similar tasks.

Recording Equipment:

There are several types of recording equipment, discussed below:

A. Integrated STBs: These STBs are “integrated” devices that contain Hard Disk Drives (HDD) and a Tuner (Cable or Satellite). The most common are HD DVRs available from Cable or Satellite companies. These include devices like the Scientific Atlanta SA8X00HD, Cisco 8642HD, Motorola 6208/6412/6416/3416 Pace Aspen/Tahoe and the Dish 921, BEV92XX, 9400, 6131 with eHDD, 6141 with eHDD. These devices will record all programming except the “record never” type onto their HDDs.

B. D-VHS Tape Recorders: There are a couple of D-VHS HD Recorders – by JVC and Mitsubishi. The JVC recorder can “receive” signals from a firewire-equipped STB or TV and record allowable programming. The Mits HD recorder must be connected to an appropriate Mitsubishi integrated HDTV, with firewire out. I’m not sure if the Mits D-VHS works on any other equipment.

C. External/Internal HDD STBs: These “stand-alone” devices do not contain a tuner and obtain signals from firewire-equipped STBs recording HD onto their HDDs. A couple of STBs (and TVs with internal HDDs) have been recently announced that have CableCard. Cable companies in Canada do not use CableCARD, so these are useless in Canada.

D. TiVo HDD Recorder: This unit is similar to the SD recorder, but it records HD in addition to SD. At this time, I believe it only works with DirecTV. The new Series 3 TiVo has several tuners to work with OTA and cable, but CableCARD is required (only available in the US)

E. HTPCs: You can record “Record Freely” flagged programmes via a firewire connection from a STB. You cannot legally record any other HD programming to your PC. PC cards can be used for OTA (ATSC) recording, but Canadian Cable QAM is usually encrypted, so PC Cards are no use for cable TV recording.

In early 2008, several devices using the "analogue hole" (component video) and HDMI inputs have been announced. We will keep track of if/how they work. Here are two threads on the two Hauppauge options, which work:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87729

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=133318

F. Recording From A DVR If the DVR has active firewire ports, like the Motorola ones, you can copy to a computer or a D-VHS, honouring the flags indicated above.

G: The recordings on Service Provider PVRs are encrypted and there's no way to "copy" these onto an HTPC. You can "play" (5C=0 programming) via firewire or (any programme) to the Hauppauge discussed below.

FCC and Firewire:

As of April 1, 2004, all cable customers may request a firewire-equipped (and enabled) STB to allow recording of appropriate HD programming. The FCC regulation affects US cable customers only, therefore Canadians may need to wait a bit longer for firewire-enabled STBs. Some of the Canadian STBs have firewire, however, these connections are not always activated/available. Motorola STBs seem to work well, however the 5C restrictions come into play. Rogers and Videotron have some SA STBs with firewire enabled, however the recording process has been hit & miss (often miss). See the firewire threads in Rogers and Videotron

FCC and Flags:

This issue is working its way through the courts. A recent decision went against the MPAA, making the flags "illegal", however, The MPAA will surely appeal and the appropriate legislation in their favour may still be enacted.... Programming flags are "different" from the "5C" flags, but accomplish basically the same thing.

DVI, HDMI, Component Video, etc:

There are no DVI, HDMI or Component Video HD inputs on any consumer recording devices (Other than Hauppauge, discussed below). Therefore you cannot record HD via a DVI, HDMI or component video connection. The information flow on these connections is huge anyway (over 1 Gb/sec), therefore you’d need a HDD the size of New York to be able to record this signal (or an MPEG device – which would also be “expensive”).

If a consumer recording device/card has CV inputs, they are always limited to 480i. If a "pro" recording device/card has CV inputs, the device/card is usually very expensive (US$1k+) and also typically doesn't record digital audio.


Appendix:

Integrated STBs:

Cisco 8000HD/8300HD/8642HD – Two Tuner DVRs, with SATA connectivity for external HDDs.
Mot 6208 – One Tuner, 80 GB HDD HD DVR
Mot 6408 – Two Tuner 80 GB HDD
Mot 6412 – Two Tuner 120 GB HDD
Mot 6416 – Two Tuner 160 GB HDD
Mot 3416 - Same as above, but digital only.

For any of the above Motorola PVRs, the Motorola firmware does not support an external HDD, nor does it allow internal drives larger than 160 GB. (Shaw and other providers have recently introduced the firmware which does allow for eHDD and larger internals)

Pace Tahoe, Aspen, Summit - have connectivity for eHDDs.
Shaw Direct (formerly Starchoice) DSR530/630 (I believe with two tuners and 160 GB HDD.)
Dish 921 – Three Tuner (2 Sat, 1 OTA), 250 GB HDD HD DVR.
Bell has the 9242/9241/9400, similar specs to Dish above.
Bell recently introduced the 6141, 6131 with USB2.0 for external HDD connectivity.
LG now has an OTA STB that can record HD

Various other providers now also have integrated PVRs that are getting too numerous to list here.

“Expansion HDDs” are available for some of the above STBs. You will be able to expand the HDD size by adding a firewire, USB or SATA HDD. These HDD will be “special” and the information recorded onto them from the STB will be “encrypted” to prevent copying to another device.

Some people have removed the internal drive and substituted a larger drive in their PVRs. The amount you can "expand" depends on the firmware and the STB. There are usually threads in the service provider's forum discussing these.


Stand-Alone Devices:

Any stand-alone devices so far are usable only with a particular TV (Toshiba unit), or for OTA use (LG, Sony).


TiVo HDD Recorder (currently only available from DirecTV).

TiVo Series 3 can only be used for OTA in Canada since the CableCARD slots are not supported here.


One more thing, we get a lot of questions about recording HD to DVD on DVD recorders. DVDs are 480i and are not HD. You can record the original HDTV files (.ts), but less than an hour of HDTV will fit on a DVD-R, and it will only be playable on an HTPC.

For those people with the appropriate satellite and lots of money... (not sure if these work any more since BTV went MPEG4)

http://www.169time.com or

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/products.htm for a little less money.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...364#post780364 BTV Rip Thread.


For those people with Motorola STBs...

http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/

Shaw Firewire:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76682

Rogers Firewire Discussion

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=56259


Connecting a PVR's HDD to computer?

The recorded information on the integrated PVR's HDD is encrypted, therefore you cannot connect the drive (internal or external) directly to a computer and "see" any of the recordings.

Please send me a PM if you have comments or suggestions.

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Here's a pdf (148k) from the FCC on the Broadcast Flag.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-240759A1.pdf

Business Week Article:

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...4243_tc024.htm

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Currently there are some issues with Shaw cable and the 5C settings on STBs. The issues vary depending on your location and equipment.

Basically, Shaw has placed some firmware on the STBs that is limiting downstream recording, when it should not. They are aware of the situation, but when/if they'll do anything about it is anybody's guess, unfortunately.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76682