Toronto Post-Transitional Channel Allotments, May 2011

[El Gran Chico]

Originally Posted by Jase88

Channel 40 has been allocated for CKXT (SUN TV) Toronto. Looks like they've applied for an average ERP of 16kW. That's up from an average ERP of 3kW on channel 66. I can easily and reliably receive channel 66.1 now, so 16kW on 40 should be a cake walk for most around Hamilton.

I just phoned Sun TV (now SunNetworkNews) about the bad shape of their PSIP (EIT/ETT missing, STT totally messed up). The person I spoke to said they won't be doing anything about it because they will be going off the air "soon". I asked them if they could elaborate what soon meant. After a long pause I got a "not sure, but definitely before August".

So let the speculation begin on what will be on UHF channel 40 allocation on Sept. 1

[Jase88]

We know that all existing stations in Toronto have an allocation. It's likely safe to say that no new conventional stations will be firing up anytime soon. Therefore, I believe once SUN goes dark, channel 40 will remain unallocated.

Even if CTV got a ton of complaints that their channel 9 coverage footprint doesn't match their channel 40 one, or that there's adjacent channel interference from 10 in Barrie, they'll never request a change.

[tvlurker]

Originally Posted by Jase88

Even if CTV got a ton of complaints that their channel 9 coverage footprint doesn't match their channel 40 one, or that there's co-channel interference from 10 in Barrie, they'll never request a change.

Interference from channel 10 into channel 9 is adjacent channel interference, not co-channel interference.

[Jase88]

That's what I meant. See what happens when you try to multi-task? ;-) Thanks for catching my error.

[GeorgeMx]

Originally Posted by Jase88

...Even if CTV got a ton of complaints that their channel 9 coverage footprint doesn't match their channel 40 one, or that there's adjacent channel interference from 10 in Barrie, they'll never request a change.

I expect there will be complaints from OTA viewers with UHF only installations. OTA fans will do OK with channel 9 provided that they use a VHF-hi antenna system. Viewers in urban Toronto using indoor antennas will have problems in certain areas. Some viewers (not DHCers) are satisfied with noisy pictures that they watch casually on small screen TV sets. They will have the biggest problems with the DTV transition even on UHF.

The appropriate comparison is channel 9 digital to channel 9 analog. Interference from channel 10 Barrie should not normally be a problem for anyone with a decent antenna pointed at the CN Tower in the area where the only CTV signal is from Toronto. Closer to Barrie, viewers can receive the Orillia transmitter site, to the west they can get CKCO on 13 and to the east the Rice Lake transmitter.

I don't think the motivation for any move back to UHF will be driven by adjacent channel interference rather it will be reception problems in the core urban market.

[tvlurker]

Originally Posted by El Gran Chico

I just phoned Sun TV (now SunNetworkNews) about the bad shape of their PSIP (EIT/ETT missing, STT totally messed up). The person I spoke to said they won't be doing anything about it because they will be going off the air "soon". I asked them if they could elaborate what soon meant. After a long pause I got a "not sure, but definitely before August".

So let the speculation begin on what will be on UHF channel 40 allocation on Sept. 1

Interesting, given that all five SunTV transmitters appear in the CRTC license as having had post-transition digital paraemters approved.

My understanding from within the industry that TVA has been pretty close-mouthed about their plans for Sept. 1.

The ambiguity about the future plans is further supported by the fact that CKXT's Ottawa channel 33 licence is for a position on the tower currently used by VHF antenna that will be in use until August 31. They're not likely to move out that antenna and replace overnight.

[GeorgeMx]

Originally Posted by Jase88

The outage could have been caused by a variety of reasons. Broadcast television isn't the only stuff coming off the CN Tower. Maintenance on any facilities would likely require powering down transmitters for worker safety.

TV/FM shutdown is only required for work on the broadcast antennas. In some cases, only half the antenna is shut down while the other half remains in operation. Workers can wear special suits to block RF when they work close to the antennas. The telecommunications antennas (microwave) are at the bottom of the lower pod in the canvas donut and mobile is on the top. If the RF levels were above safety code 6 on the lower pod they would not be able to run the new attraction where people will walk on a narrow walkway around the outside of the lower pod.

[rob50312]

George people in the Barrie area are going to need their antennae pointed at Toronto for most of the other stations and thus would like to receive CTV on 9.Some dont have rotors.

[GeorgeMx]

Originally Posted by rob50312

George people in the Barrie area are going to need their antennae pointed at Toronto for most of the other stations and thus would like to receive CTV on 9.Some dont have rotors.

CTV is providing access to their signal OTA in the Barrie area so they have done their job. If people want to view the station then they will have to get the appropriate antenna equipment to receive the signal. In the Barrie area there are other choices for signals like CBC and SRC (Barrie), Global (Midland), CHCH (Muskoka) and TVO (Penetanguishene). Much of Barrie is built around Kampenfelt bay on the west side of Lake Simcoe so the terrain to the south rises considerably and effectively blocks line of sight to the CN Tower in parts of the City.

[rob50312]

George CBC is turning off both Barrie signals.Global says Toronto serves Barrie better with digital.City,Omnis,Most fixed antennae are pointing at Toronto so bad decisions made by regulators allowing CKVR on 10.

[GeorgeMx]

Originally Posted by rob50312

George CBC is turning off both Barrie signals.Global says Toronto serves Barrie better with digital.City,Omnis,Most fixed antennae are pointing at Toronto so bad decisions made by regulators allowing CKVR on 10.

I didn't realize that CBC was turning off the Barrie transmitters. The CBC Ontario coverage map at http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/dtv/Toronto_CBC.shtml shows marginal coverage around the Barrie area with plenty of gaps. The CBC Toronto digital coverage looks like it was drawn with a compass just large enough to include Barrie. Real coverage will be substantially less due to terrain factors. The Barrie situation is similar to London as a significant area of Barrie and environs will loose CBC coverage.

I wonder if the loss of CBC coverage in Barrie will become a political issue after August 31? If it does, CBC may be forced to revise their capital spending priorities and reinstate the Barrie transmitters as digital in 2011 or Industry Canada may be directed to permit continued analog operation until CBC can budget the upgrade. The government has direct control over Industry Canada so ordering a change in regulations to permit continued analog operation is easily achieved.

With respect to Global, I believe the comment you reference was made before Shaw purchased the network and was intended at the time to support their plan for more power from the CN Tower and shutdown of the Midland transmitter.

I still disagree with you about the use of channel 10 for CKVR. CTV covers Barrie from the Orillia site so there was no reason to protect channel 9 when Industry Canada assigned 10 to CKVR.

[JamesK]

If the RF levels were above safety code 6 on the lower pod

FWIW, there are microwave radiation warning signs on doors leading from the microwave level out to where the microwave antennas are. That floor is heavily shielded, with Faraday cages used to shield the equipment on that floor. Of course, the broadcast antennas are well above the pods, located on the mast at the top of the tower. IIRC, the FM broadcasters share a common antenna with separate ones for the various TV stations.

[Jase88]

Originally Posted by GeorgeMx

TV/FM shutdown is only required for work on the broadcast antennas.

As mentioned, not all stations have power backup. It's possible an outage or electrical work was occurring. My point is and was that--given the complexity of the tower's systems--there could be a myriad of reasons for a broadcast outage.

[Marbles_00]

If I complain, they'll likely recommend that I tune into the local CKCO CTV station here in Kitchener (though I prefer CTV Toronto's news)

No, most likely since they are owned by BHell, they will recommend that you subscribe to BHell's satellite or IPTV service. They most likely won't really care who complains unfortunately.