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TSN 2 Programming Discussion

32K views 126 replies 47 participants last post by  Rouge21 
#1 ·
Ditto on the tennis, though we're on Star Choice not BEV. I know TSN is (apparently) repeating the tennis Thursday night at 8:30pm PST. But they also had the tennis in their listings on a tape delay another day since last Friday when TSN2 launched, I'm not sure what day, and it wasn't on
According to their website TSN is NOT showing the men's quarter final match after the football. It says Sports Centre at 10pm (ET) followed by The Best of Off the Record: NFL Next Question #1 from 11.30 until midnight. After that ESPN Films: "The Zen of Bobby V" - Bobby Valentine in Japan until 2pm followed by Sports Centre yet again. So if that is correct then we'll miss Roddick v Djokovic, possibly one of the matches of the tournament. I'd be willing to sit up through the night to watch a match like that even if delayed - though I wouldn't put on the football on TSN as the ridiculous TSN ticker would no doubt give away the score.

Frankly I blame TSN not Star Choice or any other cable/satellite provider. I'm pretty sure TSN deliberately chose this time of year when they knew they'd have too much programming to get rid of TSN Alternate. That way they could utilise the anger of tennis fans against Star Choice, Bell, etc, to push them into giving in to TSN's demands regarding TSN2. A cynical tactic but unsurprising.
 
#33 ·
TSN using CFL fans as pawns...

For the first time ever, TSN won the rights for all CFL games this season (regular season and playoffs). Sounded good at the time...

TSN just announced two things during half-time of the Ti-Cats @ Esks game:
- TSN2 is available nationwide through BEV
- the Esks game next week is on TSN2 and on TSN.ca. What?!!!

That's infuriating. TSN--a Bell Globe Media channel--bid for and won the rights to CFL games...and now they're shuttling them off to a new channel...that just happens to be newly available on BEV.

I'm a Shaw subscriber, but I'm not ticked at Shaw over this. I'm ticked at TSN and Bell. As noted in the first post in this thread, TSN/Bell is using fans as pawns in their sloppy launch of a channel. In this case, CFL fans (in particular, Eskimo fans...and Edmonton just happens to be in Shaw territory).

Wouldn't shock me if this was cooked up in advance of launching TSN2.


edit: Just checked the schedule, and TSN will be airing Ryder Cup golf Sun. Sept. 21st rather than Esks @ Als. Instead of original Canadian programming, they're re-broadcasting NBC programming. Tell me how that makes sense from the perspective of a sports fan. Is it even possible to have access to TSN without access to NBC? In other words, anyone with access to TSN already has access to NBC, and therefore, the Ryder Cup matches. Meanwhile, TSN is the only source of the CFL game...which they've conveniently shoved over to TSN2. Dirty pool Bell. Sports fans are caught in the middle as Bell/TSN attempt a sloppy launch of a channel. Count me as totally unimpressed.

Get the CFL games back on TSN, NOT TSN2!
 
#35 ·
Bell doesn't have any control over TSN or TSN2, I believe this has been stated before.

As I mentioned back when everyone was complaining that US Open tennis was pushed to TSN2, so an NFL game could air on NBC and TSN. TSN has to air some events because they paid a lot of money for it, and it was in the contract. The major golf events count towards this, in fact all golf events TSN airs do. It was really a poor scheduling move by the CFL and TSN to put a game on next Sunday. I know they need the field for University football on Friday or Saturday, but Thursday night would have been a better option.
 
#36 ·
oilblue, Bell Globe Media changed it's name to CTVglobemedia almost two years ago when Bell sold most of it. TSN is the only one deserving of your ire. I doubt Bell influences programming decisions like that.
Bell doesn't have any control over TSN or TSN2, I believe this has been stated before.
BCE still owns 15% of TSN and when the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan takeover of BCE goes through, it will be a combined 40%. You've got to think that TSN will be told to play nice with Bell.
 
#41 ·
NB Josh: No, this game had not been scheduled for TSN-A or TSN2 long ago. Check TSN's original CFL schedule for this season. The Esks @ Als was scheduled to be on TSN itself, and as a TSN-HD game:
An (#) indicates games available on TSN HD.

Sunday, September 21 Edmonton at Montreal * 1pm/10am # -
Since I posted last night, they've added this line (which wasn't there before):
Due to a scheduling conflict, this game will be shown on TSN2
This move reminds of CBC putting a number of Brier games onto Country Canada a few years back. Hardly anyone had that channel, so people were rightly annoyed (digital boxes weren't as prevalent then, so adding a channel wasn't that easy).

Well, that CBC decision stunk, and this stunt by TSN is just as bad. TSN is playing games here. They're the national broadcaster of CFL games, and they've relegated the game to a channel the majority of Canadians can't even get. Why even bid for all the games if you can't carry them?

As for all of those that say Bell doesn't control TSN...fine. But you can't seriously assert that it's pure coincidence that the game was shifted to TSN2 within 24 hours of the announcement that BEV picked up TSN2.

Get the CFL games back on TSN, NOT TSN2!
 
#44 ·
NB Josh: No, this game had not been scheduled for TSN-A or TSN2 long ago. Check TSN's original CFL schedule for this season. The Esks @ Als was scheduled to be on TSN itself, and as a TSN-HD game:
Yea, but it has been listed on the TSN2 schedule for a week or two now, and golf has been listed on TSN. It depends on what you consider a long time. William Houston reported that the EDM-MTL game would probably end up on TSN-ALT when the season started back in June.
 
#42 ·
I dont get this, TSN has known for ages they were going to have the Ryder Cup all day Sunday, so they would have known for sure that the CFL would be pushed to TSN-A (at the time of publishing their schedule, as TSN2 didnt exist). Golf would take presidence I would think.

Shady of them to always list it on TSNHD imo...
 
#43 ·
Actually when the CFL schedule was announced in February-ish, they knew there was a conflict with the golf and it was reported in Globe and Mail at that time and a few times afterwards as well.

The Country Canada analogy is a fair one though in many ways. Although at least the game is also on RDS (HD) ... helps a little, but not much.
 
#45 ·
Again, just yesterday, there was no mention on TSN's CFL schedule that the game wouldn't be on TSN-HD. The TSN2 schedule may have had it...but TSN's CFL page had it too. That's not a long time ago, no matter the interpretation.

Besides, TSN-Alt was widely available, unlike TSN2. The list of BDUs that carried TSN-Alt dwarfs the small list that currently carry TSN2 (and an even smaller list for TSN2-HD). That's just looking at the number of BDUs. Factor in the subscriber base of the BDUs involved, and the the disparity is even worse.

In other words, relegating the game to TSN2 is much worse than pushing it to TSN-Alt. Not even close to the same thing.

Even then, the TSN-Alt option doesn't explain why the game was always listed as an HD broadcast.

I understand this makes some sense for TSN's bottom line. At some point though, viewers and their interests should be factors too. Pushing the game to TSN2 is ludicrous from a sports fan's perspective (it's not like the golf wasn't otherwise available on other channels...or that it couldn't be joined in progress on TSN). The decision demonstrates exactly where TSN values their viewers...below everything else.

No two ways about it, TSN dropped the ball here and CFL fans deserve better.
 
#47 ·
In other words, relegating the game to TSN2 is much worse than pushing it to TSN-Alt. Not even close to the same thing.
But it is the same thing: TSN-Alt became TSN2. It's a conflict that they've known about since the CFL announced their schedule.

I agree that TSN shouldn't have signed a contract that requires them to show the Ryder Cup live, if that's what is going on here.
 
#50 ·
Thanks for posting the link to Dan Barnes article. I'd be interested in hearing what "options" TSN was "trying to exhuast."

The league statement "The Alouettes' agreement with McGill requires their home games be played on Sunday afternoons after Labour Day" explains why they couldn't re-schedule the game.
 
#51 ·
I'm not making excuses for TSN, I'm just pointing out their schedule isn't very reliable. I'm not even defending their decision, just telling you why they likely made it. I know that Eskimos fans probably want to see the game, but it's one game of a 18 game season. Here is what William Houston wrote in the Globe and Mail about it this morning.

Game off TSN

The inability of TSN2 to receive carriage on major cable and satellite systems will result in next Sunday's Edmonton Eskimos-Montreal Alouettes CFL game going largely unseen in the Edmonton market and many parts of Canada.

TSN, which will televise golf's Ryder Cup, will place the CFL telecast on TSN2. However, only two major distributors are carrying the channel: Cogeco in Ontario and Bell TV (formerly Bell ExpressVu).

The CFL and TSN have been aware of this problem for months, but a reschedule did not take place. In a statement released yesterday, the league said it could not move the game because the Als' agreement with McGill University, which owns the Percival Molson Memorial Stadium, requires home games be played on Sunday afternoons after Labour Day.

Star Choice could choose this week to pick up TSN2. As a satellite competitor of Bell TV, it's at a disadvantage by not carrying the channel. Shaw, a large cable distributor in Western Canada, could do the same.

If not, an option for Edmonton viewers would be to subscribe to French-language RDS to watch the game and then cancel. The cost would be a month's subscription. The game also will be streamed on TSN.ca.

The important point is this: The CFL should have dealt with this problem months ago. The failure of TSN2, which launched in late August, to be picked up by major distributors, including Rogers, Shaw and Star Choice, exacerbated the situation.
Obviously they could've always just not scheduled a Alouettes home game that week. They have known about the Ryder Cup dates for a year at least. Or they could've changed home dates with Edmonton, and moved this week's game to a different night. They play at Edmonton in the final week.
 
#52 ·
I'm not making excuses for TSN, I'm just pointing out their schedule isn't very reliable. I'm not even defending their decision, just telling you why they likely made it. I know that Eskimos fans probably want to see the game, but it's one game of a 18 game season.
One of 18 games? Not really, since most home games are blacked out. It's one of 9 road games. When all of those 9 are supposed to be televised on TSN, dropping one is a big deal. It's not just one of 18. Plus, this is TSN's first year of televising all CFL games. Dropping one is not a good way to start.

As for the Globe and Mail article, I completely disagree with Houston that the league should have solved this problem months ago. Fault lies completely with TSN.

Houston--even though it's mentioned in his article--seems to have completely forgotten that TSN2 launched just a few weeks ago. Yet the CFL knew about the problem months ago? How? TSN-Alt was in existence at the time, and as I noted multiple times already in this thread, putting the game on TSN-Alt would have meant it was on the air in Edmonton. Imagine that. TSN2...nowhere in Edmonton until the BEV deal appeared last Friday. That's not enough.

As I noted above, the Esks director of communications and marketing indicated the TSN2 decision came just last Saturday. That too shows that Houston's assumption was wrong.

Houston has some logic gaps putting this one at the feet of the league. This is on TSN, and it's up to TSN to solve it for the Edmonton market at least.

Obviously they could've always just not scheduled a Alouettes home game that week. They have known about the Ryder Cup dates for a year at least. Or they could've changed home dates with Edmonton, and moved this week's game to a different night. They play at Edmonton in the final week.
Was TSN2 around a year ago? Or when the league drew up it's schedule this season? Um...no. TSN-Alt was historically used to handle scheduling conflicts. While that wasn't HD, it would have been carried in Edmonton. TSN created this problem by shuttering TSN-Alt and executing a lousy launch of a TSN2.

TSN's decision push the Esks@Als to TSN2 is obviously a ploy at getting CFL fans to pressure cable and satellite providers... I'm a fan and viewer, not a pawn. TSN needs to solve this.
 
#53 ·
TSN had no choice but to put the game on TSN2, I think they probably thought it would be carried by Star Choice, Rogers and Shaw by now. They really can't move the game to TSN. I didn't realize you are in Edmonton, sorry for that.

If you are going to complain you have to group TSN-ALT and TSN2 as one. I know they are different. There are people (like myself) who do not have digital cable though. So while TSN2 is available to more people than TSN-ALT, neither has anywhere near the subscribers that TSN does. I think TSN has did amazing just to keep all but one game on the main feed, I was scared that there would be more conflicts. I look at the facts, which are.

The CFL scheduled that game on the same day as the final Ryder Cup matches.
The game has to take place on Sunday because Montreal can't host a game on any other day in the fall.
TSN has to air those Ryder Cup matches.
TSN has to air Sunday Night Football, so it can't be moved to the evening.
As a result the game would have been moved to TSN-ALT.
TSN replaced TSN-ALT with TSN2.
As a result the game got moved to TSN2.
TSN is asking too much for TSN2, as a result three of the big providers don't carry it yet.

You can watch the game on RDS, as well as the internet.
 
#54 ·
So while TSN2 is available to more people than TSN-ALT, neither has anywhere near the subscribers that TSN does.
It's the other way around actually.
- TSN-Alt was widely available. The list of providers carrying TSN-Alt was extremely long.*
- On the other hand, TSN2 is hardly available.

The simple fact is that TSN-Alt reached vastly far more homes than TSN2 does, which is why I don't group them together. Technically they're the same...but not in audience reach. That's why putting Brier draws on Country Canada few years ago is a decent example of another dumb decision.

I can't quibble much with the rest of your facts (though I still wonder why the golf couldn't be joined in progress...at least in Edmonton). True enough, with rights to two events, something had to move. It wasn't obviously the CFL game though as the decision apparently came down just this past Saturday (a day after BEV started carrying TSN2...just a "coincidence" I'm sure...:rolleyes: ).

Again, TSN quickly shut down TSN-Alt and created TSN2 without doing all the legwork to actually get TSN2 launched properly. As a result, only BEV subscribers in the Edmonton area have access to this Sunday's Esks @ Als game. If TSN-Alt was still around, *all* cable/satellite customers in the Edmonton area would have access to the game. Not so with TSN2.

TSN created this problem...and they're the ones that have to solve it for all TSN subscribers in the Edmonton area. Perhaps those with a digital box get RDS free for the day. As you mentioned though, not everyone has digital cable...

-----

*Ironically, Shaw was one of the few providers that did not carry TSN-Alt system wide...however, it generally had a slot in Edmonton.
 
#58 ·
taxtwit: To be clear, I'm not ranting about Shaw. Or Telus. Most providers don't have TSN2, so they're hardly unusual. The list is really short still, even with BEV. My derision is aimed fully at TSN.

BTW, the Labour Day rematch was blacked out on Shaw. I can't recall what was on channel 20, but it wasn't the game.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

Here's the relevant articles from today's Edmonton papers:
- Dan Barnes (The Edmonton Journal): CFL, TSN shamefully fumble ball for Eskimos fans
- Jonathan Huntington (The Edmonton Sun): TSN drops the ball
- also, Huntington's blog: Frustration with TSN growing

(knowing my luck, those article links will break tomorrow...but at least the one to the blog should still work)

Airing the game on Access idea is something Huntington suggested in his article. I have no idea if something like that would work...but the more options the better.
 
#59 ·
according to tsn.ca

TSN and TSN2's live coverage begins on Tuesday, September 16 with two marquee matches – Chelsea vs. Bordeaux at 2:30 p.m. ET live on TSN and Barcelona vs. Sporting at 2:30 p.m. ET live on TSN2.

"Soccer fans have asked for more live UEFA Champions League coverage and now with TSN2 they can get twice as much," said Phil King President of TSN. "Giving sports fans more choice with live sporting events is exactly why we launched TSN2."

All UEFA Champions League games on both TSN and TSN2 will be available in HD.
anyone know if they mean they will actually have a HD feed for the games starting this week or that they will just be rebroadcasted in 4:3 on tsn/tsn2 hd ??
 
#60 ·
"Soccer fans have asked for more live UEFA Champions League coverage and now with TSN2 they can get twice as much," said Phil King President of TSN. "Giving sports fans more choice with live sporting events is exactly why we launched TSN2."

Yet for now we actually have only half as much live coverage as last season because TSN-A is gone and TSN2 is not available to me.
 
#61 ·
TSN 2 not playing by the rules...

From what I've been reading and hearing, looks like TSN 2 could (and probably should) be in trouble.

I read that The Score and others have filed a complaint against TSN 2 for not complying with CRTC rules re: operating a new channel. Seems like TSN didn't actually apply to start TSN 2 and are stretching the boundaries of their current TSN license and just calling it a new channel...

Last time I checked, I didn't think you could just wake up one day and just start a television channel without applying for a new license...for a sports channel they don't seem to be playing by the rules.

And to add insult to...rule-breaking...they're banishing the Eskimos game to TSN 2 when the channel isn't even carried by any of the cable or satellite providers except for Express-Vu...so much for their commitment to one of Canada's games...I hope this isn't a trend, using TSN 2 as their dumping ground for Canadian games to make way for more American sports on TSN...

Just doesn't seem like the best start to a new "channel"...maybe it wont be around for much longer if the CRTC agrees with some of the complaints...we'll just have to see I guess...
 
#65 ·
You got that right! :D Glad to see a solution was found.

Guess it's old news by now, but considering how many times I expressed my frustration in here over the switch to TSN2, a positive post was in order. That, and both the SD and HD versions are up on Shaw in Edmonton! :cool:
 
#67 ·
at least we found a quarterback that knows how, but more importantly when and where, to throw a football last night. now we just need a long-snapper for field goals.

(to put this post "on-topic".... i'll be doing my part and inviting an eskimo fan over to watch the game tomorrow, er... i guess it's today now.... as he only has cogeco basic)
 
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