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Channel Master DVRs For OTA

363K views 982 replies 152 participants last post by  Gibsons 
#1 ·
This should work in Canada too. My TV guide on my old DVD recorder displayed Canadian TV station content, so this machine should too.

From C-Net:

EchoStar TR-50: An HD DVR for those without cable or satellite
(Credit: EchoStar)

If you think everybody has cable or satellite, you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, if you live in an area that's well-served by digital broadcasters, now's a better time than ever to get your TV over the air (or "OTA," as the cool kids say): yeah, you get only a handful of channels, but they're in crystal-clear digital quality--DVD quality at "worst," uncompressed high-definition at best. The problem--as we're reminded by many an e-mailer--is that there just isn't a good DVR solution for the rabbit-ears crowd, especially if you prefer high-def. (You can opt for a TiVo HD, but you'd still have to pay a monthly fee for their programming guide.) But that may finally be changing, thanks to the EchoStar TR-50. For all intents and purposes, the TR-50 takes many of the features found on Dish Networks' excellent satellite DVRs (such as the ViP622 and 722) and brings them to antenna-based TV viewers.

The unit offers ATSC and NTSC tuners, so it can view and record over-the-air HD digital, standard digital, and analog channels. Dual tuner action means you can watch (and record) one live channel while simultaneously recording a second--or record two channels while playing back a previously recorded show. There's also full control over live TV, including rewind, pause, slow motion, 10-second "instant replay," and--for recordings--30-second skip. The TR-50 also sports a 7-day electronic program guide (using over-the-air metadata on the digital band), which should eliminate the pesky VCR-style manual "timer recordings" (you remember: "8:00-9:00 p.m. / Thursdays / channel 4"). The box also has a full range of outputs, including component and HDMI (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i resolutions supported), as well as standard-def composite and RF outputs for older TVs. Dish hasn't yet specified the internal hard drive size, but the USB 2.0 connector will ensure expandable storage. Perhaps most interestingly, the TR-50 includes an Ethernet port and the ability to decode MPEG-4 video, and EchoStar touts its ability to "access premium Internet-based TV programming via broadband Internet," as well as "DVR management and timer creation via Internet"--though the timeframe for such features wasn't disclosed. Likewise, the exact release date and pricing information remain a mystery. But if it's affordable--and lacks TiVo's monthly fee--the TR-50 may be the perfect fit for TV viewers without satellite or cable who still want to enjoy HD programming on their own schedule.

Separately, EchoStar also announced the TR-40. That model is merely a digital set-top box (no DVR). It will let analog TV owners (or those with HD monitors that lack a tuner) receive digital and high-def signals over the air--a necessity after the scheduled February 2009 analog TV shutdown.
 
#124 ·
I find it hard to believe that I picked up the guide data from CFTO as I haven't had the antenna pointed to pick it up all week.
I have a couple of thoughts:

It might be possible that even though you don't have enough of a lock for ATSC programming reception, you might have enough of a lock for datacasting.

Alternatively, you might be picking up the analogue version of TVGOS being broadcast on VHF channel 9, or on UHF channel 17 as I think that WNED (PBS) was broadcasting the TVGOS info in Buffalo.

As for channel 9 VHF reception, even if you have a UHF only antenna, it still will have some gain characteristics, however small, for VHF reception. It's just that the gain will not be enough for the tuner input of the tv to provide programming. If the datacast is received separately from the NTSC or ATSC tuner, that might be an explanation.

Perhaps the TVGOS module of the DTVPal DVR is NTSC compatible. After all, the original specs for the DVR were to include NTSC tuner capability, so it's plausible that they just removed the NTSC tuner, and didn't change the TVGOS module. Couple that with the fact that analogue PBS 17 was broadcasting the TVGOS data, and we might have a theory. Personally I think this is the most likely scenario.

If this is the case, then we will know for sure when WNED shuts down it's analogue transmitter. If the TVGOS disappears at that point, for those with no analogue CFTO reception, then we might have an explanation.

A lot of " If's... " ;)
 
#125 ·
Time Test

I can't set the time manually now, and the page reads "Time has been acquired from TV Guide". It looks to me like somebody is transmitting it.
I am suggesting the following test for anyone who has a DVTPal DVR and a separate ATSC tuner hooked up at the same time:

Since we all know that PSIP time varies from station to station, perhaps try matching the date and time of the TVGOS with the different OTA stations' PSIP time stamps. That is; have the DTVPal DVR show the time on screen, then using a different tuner/receiver find out which stations' time is closest to the TVGOS time displayed on the DTVPal DVR.

Assumption for the above test:
I am assuming that the TVGOS date & time are inserted in the datacast by the host channel. Therefore, when the DTVPal DVR's time flips from 1:42 PM to 1:43 PM, there should be an OTA station whose PSIP data shows the clock flip at the same time. This would be neat to try with a PIP capable TV.

Just a theory, but worth trying if anyone is interested and capable.

cheers.
 
#129 ·
I don't think there's duty (I didn't need to pay any) but you will be charged PST and GST and likely a fee from FedEX since this is how they ship.

Back to the topic - still no troubles with my unit. One thing I've noticed though - at midnight following a day you plug it in, it runs some program guide update thing that momentarily shuts down the box. Maybe it happens everynight?! - the only nights I've had it on at midnight were the day i got it and today (I unplugged it to work a better sound dampening solution - it worked! very quiet now).
 
#128 ·
Digital or analogue? We all know that PBS does the analogue TVGOS currently. But, we assumed that the DTVPAL DVR was a digital only device. So, why is this digital only devie, using a Buffalo ZIP, with no CBS affiliate to host, show a TV GUIDE logo???
 
#130 · (Edited by Moderator)
Here' s a copy of a letter from PBS
WNED is indeed broadcasting the digital TV Guide On-Screen data. It went on-line about two weeks ago on channel 17-1. You didn’t mention whether you are viewing over-the-air or on cable – I don’t know if Macrovision has arranged with Time-Warner to pass the data on via their cable network.

I hope this helps –

Best regards,

Director of Engineering and Technology
Western NY Public Broadcasting Association
WNED-DT/TV/AM/FM & WNJA-FM
 
#132 ·
OK this is great news - but what Toronto channels will they include?

On my recent TVGOS download to a new Sony V Series TV, it only auto configured for actual Buffalo OTA channels.

I then added CBC, CTV, Global and Omni One (which were showing as available but not "ON" or showing OTA channel numbers) and I am waiting to see if any actual LISTING info downloads for these additions. (CHCH was also available but I do not use it)

However, I am missing any options in the TVGOS channel list whatsoever for CITY, Omni 2 and Sun. Can we get WNED to add these to their data? If so, we would all have a very reliable TVGOS stream to use for all channels that we receive in the area.

Or, am I missing something?

FYI - I used 14201 as the ZIP because 14072 went for 2 days with no data at all.

Help?
 
#146 ·
hmmm - I've just tried this as a test on a Sony V series TVGOS setup (in case Dish enables postal codes soon). All I get auto-configured is TVO and every CTV affiliate in the world... ;) I have drilled down to add some US stations in Buffalo but they have shown No Listings for a few days.
 
#134 ·
Yes the TV does does - I will try your postal code to test. (The DVR is US ZIP only, BUT, uses PSIP to supplement missing TVGOS info resulting in a full grid, wheras the Sony TV's do not)

Are you receiving your TVGOS OTA or Cable? Mine is OTA and I have read that CTV has botched it up lately.

Currently with 14201, I am missing CITY TV, OMIN 1 and SUN - so your idea is an improvement for sure .

Do you have an option to add 23-1 from the OFF list?

Does anyone have a postal code that gets the whole lot?
 
#169 ·
I posted this elsewhere here but it is relevant to this discussion as well:


Update from TV Guide/Macrovision Regarding Toronto Channel Lineup

I have received some encouraging info from TVGOS folks. If I read the response below correctly, they will be adding 2-2, 7-2 and 23-1 for us who use the CFTO TVGOS stream via M5W1E6. These were the only missing channels that I recall. This was their response:

"Response (xxxxxxxx) - 03/04/2009 12:13 PM
We will be escalating this to our tech operations team to add these channels. Once updated we will notify you.

Regards,"

Once I see this finished and working, I will go back and ask for all of the Toronto Stations to be added 14201.

One step at a time.......

Stu
 
#136 ·
DTV Pal vs CM7000

Anybody ever compared the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner in the DTV Pal with the one from CM7000? I know they are two different animals, but it would help me decide if I want to take the plunge for the DTV Pal right away.
 
#137 ·
Do you mean the DTV PAL converter box, or the DTVPAL DVR discussed in this thread? They are two different boxes and may or may not contain the same tuner....
 
#138 ·
Upgraded the firmware to 202

I ran into my first problems over the weekend. I experimented with recording two shows simultaneously - that "worked" but the dvr was less than graceful about it.

- I tried to record a third program in the same time slot to see what would happen. It was not pretty. It wiped out all the guide data, said something about a failed internet connection (I'm not using the ethernet port) but continued on fine a moment later. The guide data re-populated soon afterward.

- when the dual programs were recording, it did allow me to flip between the 2 channels, but not any others (what I though it what do) but shortly afterward, it flashed an error message about a failed update.

- at some point during the recordings, the output to my tv stopped

- after the recordings, one of the recordings was split in two. One half had the incorrect program title/description. The other recording had no program title or description. But otherwise the recordings were fine.

So, I upgraded the firmware to 202 (using USB). I only watched it for an hour or so afterward it seemed ok. I have a recording set up for tonight. I'll see how it goes. I'll try a simultaneous recording later this week to see it the new version handles it better.
 
#139 ·
Anybody ever compared the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner in the DTV Pal with the one from CM7000? I know they are two different animals, but it would help me decide if I want to take the plunge for the DTV Pal right away.
Yes, On some other forum, several users compared it and the CM7000 is better.

I just purchased a Tivo HD from the States last week and it has the same tuner as the TR-50 (Microtune MT2131) and It has about the same sensitivity of my Samsung plasma TV 42a450. Maybe marginally better. BTW, the analogue reception on the Tivo is better then my TV.

I can tell you for sure next week because I should get my CM 7000 and I will do a head to head with the Tivo HD.

Intravino
 
#140 ·
El Gran Chico,

My unit gave an update error message last night. I have not connected it to the Internet either, so I assume it was programmed to phone home regularly to check for updates. So, I guess because it found no Ethernet connection it barked out the error.

However, you can not watch a third program while recording two others unless the third program is a recording. The unit is a dual tuner type, meaning only two channels can be "tuned" simultaneously. Your experiment likely caused some of the hiccups you then noticed as the unit was not designed to do it. One would hope better behavior from it though, likely fixed by updates of not already in 202.
 
#143 · (Edited)
tenstu:
I meant the DVR. For a tuner/converter, I would choose the CM7000, but I am tempted
by the DVR because I don't have a digital TV recording system yet. The other thing is that I want to improve on the reception I get from my Aquos.
So, I was wondering if the DTV Pal DVR would help me significantly for reception as well.
 
#144 ·
With all the speculation about what the DTVPal DVR can/cannot do, I emailed the tech support email address to get authoratative answers. My questions were...

1) Can I set the DVR's clock manually, and get it to ignore PSIP data? I don't believe we have digital TVGOS in Toronto.

2) Can I manually set the DVR to record a specific channel at a specific time, regardless of what shows up in PSIP/TVGOS?

3) A nice-to-have feature would be the ability to copy data off the drive in an unencrypted format.

Here is the relevant section of the reply...

Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. To ensure clarity I will answer your questions as they are asked.
1) The PSIP data does control the time, and unfortunately there is no manual setting for the time.
2) At this point there is the option to set manual timers, but this has seen issues if the guide information is inaccurate.
3) As of not there is no way to remove the data in an unencrypted format. I am sorry for any inconvenience this causes.
I assume that the reply to question 3 should start "As of now". This is disappointing. I would be better off with Myth-TV or one of several Windows-based hardware/software combos.
 
#145 ·
Walter Dnes:

Be aware the Windows Based HTPC boxes using the Window Media Center portion, do NOT officially support ATSC channels for Canadian Cities. You have to do some hacking o get ATSC to show up. And, the guide listings for those channels requires some hacking as well. Plus, the new Vista TV Pack completely ruins these hacks and is not for Canada at all. Search for posts by PNear for more info.

You will likely need another media center 'front end' for you HTPC that has complete support for canada.

So the question is: is it easier to go with the DTVPAL DVR and hope that software updates fix your 3 request?
 
#147 ·
I meant the DVR. For a tuner/converter, I would choose the CM7000, but I am tempted
by the DVR because I don't have a digital TV recording system yet. The other thing is that I want to improve on the reception I get from my Aquos.
So, I was wondering if the DTV Pal DVR would help me significantly for reception as well.
I just received my cm 7000, I did only one test, look at thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42186&page=49

intravino
 
#148 · (Edited)
Just received my DTVpal two days ago. Works perfect! Great reception, receives all local stations with high signal strength. It has the same exact EPG and menus as the Echostar TR-40 converter box. Tried a manual instant recording and worked perfect. Played it back, perfect again. Tried a timer recording with the unit turned off and then viewed recording afterwards, no problems whatsoever. The dvr records without being on if the timer record is set. 100% pleased with this unit. I just might get another one for the other part of the house!!!


BTW, I cannot hear any noises coming from this unit when it is on, even when I put my ear just inches from it, very quiet.
 
#149 ·
Great to hear Orion250! Same experience here.

I was almost pulling the trigger this week to buy a second unit but the website says they are totally sold out! While this is bad news for anyone who wants one right away, it is good news for Echostar and for end users I think - because it means the product is selling very well. This in turn should mean attention to software updates etc...

Enjoy your unit!
 
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