Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

Channel Master DVRs For OTA

363K views 982 replies 152 participants last post by  Gibsons 
#1 ·
This should work in Canada too. My TV guide on my old DVD recorder displayed Canadian TV station content, so this machine should too.

From C-Net:

EchoStar TR-50: An HD DVR for those without cable or satellite
(Credit: EchoStar)

If you think everybody has cable or satellite, you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, if you live in an area that's well-served by digital broadcasters, now's a better time than ever to get your TV over the air (or "OTA," as the cool kids say): yeah, you get only a handful of channels, but they're in crystal-clear digital quality--DVD quality at "worst," uncompressed high-definition at best. The problem--as we're reminded by many an e-mailer--is that there just isn't a good DVR solution for the rabbit-ears crowd, especially if you prefer high-def. (You can opt for a TiVo HD, but you'd still have to pay a monthly fee for their programming guide.) But that may finally be changing, thanks to the EchoStar TR-50. For all intents and purposes, the TR-50 takes many of the features found on Dish Networks' excellent satellite DVRs (such as the ViP622 and 722) and brings them to antenna-based TV viewers.

The unit offers ATSC and NTSC tuners, so it can view and record over-the-air HD digital, standard digital, and analog channels. Dual tuner action means you can watch (and record) one live channel while simultaneously recording a second--or record two channels while playing back a previously recorded show. There's also full control over live TV, including rewind, pause, slow motion, 10-second "instant replay," and--for recordings--30-second skip. The TR-50 also sports a 7-day electronic program guide (using over-the-air metadata on the digital band), which should eliminate the pesky VCR-style manual "timer recordings" (you remember: "8:00-9:00 p.m. / Thursdays / channel 4"). The box also has a full range of outputs, including component and HDMI (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i resolutions supported), as well as standard-def composite and RF outputs for older TVs. Dish hasn't yet specified the internal hard drive size, but the USB 2.0 connector will ensure expandable storage. Perhaps most interestingly, the TR-50 includes an Ethernet port and the ability to decode MPEG-4 video, and EchoStar touts its ability to "access premium Internet-based TV programming via broadband Internet," as well as "DVR management and timer creation via Internet"--though the timeframe for such features wasn't disclosed. Likewise, the exact release date and pricing information remain a mystery. But if it's affordable--and lacks TiVo's monthly fee--the TR-50 may be the perfect fit for TV viewers without satellite or cable who still want to enjoy HD programming on their own schedule.

Separately, EchoStar also announced the TR-40. That model is merely a digital set-top box (no DVR). It will let analog TV owners (or those with HD monitors that lack a tuner) receive digital and high-def signals over the air--a necessity after the scheduled February 2009 analog TV shutdown.
 
#525 ·
Rewriting the code on a 7000PAL

I wouldn't hold your breath on any improvements. The 7400, which I own, also won't accept a Toronto postal code. During setup you have the opportunity to enter the country/code for either the USA or Canada, but if you enter a Canadian postal code the the 7400 is "unable to establish contact with the server" and urges you to try again later. If you change to USA and 14201, it connects immediately and a "local lineup" is downloaded. Now, none of this matters unless you're planning on purchasing the extra EPG package, but it shows not much has changed down at Channel Master.

As to the rest, it's all in the coding. I've done various TVGOS experiments with the 7000PAL and a separate TVGOS-enabled DVR. The 7000PAL is quite capable of receiving TVGOS data from a Canadian channel (in my case either CFTO or CKVR) and passing it on, but is unable to transfer that data to its own internal guide. It's easy to tell the difference - Buffalo TVGOS is missing several Canadian channels (CKVR, CITS, TSN, etc) and includes advertising. Toronto TVGOS is missing various US stations, (ION, METV, all Rochester stations), and is blissfully ad-free.

So, the good news is that what you're asking for is entirely possible. The sad reality is that it will probably never happen.
 
#526 ·
Thanks for the feedback guys.

It goes to show the sad state of Channel Master's Canadian customer service when paying customers are actually considering hacking the device just to recover functionality. *sigh*

Maybe we can convince a computer science student to hack it as a university project :D
 
#528 ·
Couple questions.

What ZIP codes are people in Toronto using on their CM 7000 PALs?

I'm currently getting 20+ channels, but my guide data only shows 24 hours worth of programming for most channels. Only two channels (CBC and CBS) go beyond the current evening. Everything else says "no info available". Is this normal?

Thanks,
k.
 
#529 ·
theboyk

Most of us use 14201 or something close to that.

It sounds like you're not getting TVGOS, just the PSIP info. Can you see the TV Guide logo up in the right hand corner on the Guide screen? If not you haven't "acquired" the TVGOS signal. It may take a factory reset, because the 7000 stops looking if it can't find the signal after 3 or 4 days.
 
#530 ·
theboyk, to answer your questions, and to summarize what has been covered in this thread:

1) Most people in the GTA, including myself in Kitchener, use ZIP 14201.

2) The device captures electronic guide data via two methods: TVGOS (TV Guide on screen), and PSIP. The former is a host service carried on WNED in Buffalo, which provides about a week of data. PSIP generally only provides up to 12 hours, though some channels provide many days of data with PSIP.

"PSIP" (Program and System Information Protocol) is a data stream embedded into a station's signal. When you tune to that channel, the CM7000 receives the data just for that station. In order to keep it's EPG updated, the CM7000 will tune to each station (in the background--you don't see it do this) periodically to capture this data.

3) The only Canadian channel (to my knowledge) that receives EPG data via the Buffalo TVGOS host is CFTO Toronto.

4) CBC (English CBLT) Toronto sends out the most data on PSIP: Almost a week.

5) CHCH Hamilton and CBLFT Toronto don't send out any data whatsoever.

I hope this helps.
 
#533 ·
OK, did a factory reset and went through the Wizard setup. Once completed, it went to the "downloading guide" screen, took about two minutes for the progress bar to complete, and then I'm "set up. But, still not getting the TV Guide logo or any TVGOS data?

Any suggestions?
 
#534 · (Edited)
CMPAL 7000 - Jerky recordings..

Have noticed a jerkiness, hitching type delay in some of my recordings. Recordings on my other PVR (Shaw Direct) do not exhibit this problem. This is not due to signal dropouts as noted in a previous post. Its a consistent hiccup in the picture throughout a recording. Is this an issue with CM PVRs?
 
#535 ·
theboyk, do you have the "TVGuide/TVGuide+" feature enabled? If so, this will prevent TVGOS and guide data from working on the CM7000. Disable this feature if enabled.

Make sure you device can receive WNED 17.1 (RF 43) from Buffalo, and is using the ZIP code provided above.
 
#536 ·
brownriggd, this will occur when the device has experienced signal issues (dropouts, excessive errors, etc) during recording. When you attempt to playback, the device reads these errors, and presents unstable playback (hiccups).

The fix: Hit pause, then play.
 
#537 ·
Jase88: The "TVGuide/TVGuide+" feature is not enabled, I'm receiving a very strong WNED 17.1 signal and I've been using the ZIP suggested (it's actually what I've always been using for my ZIP).

After some further research, it looks like the "downloading guide" screen is downloading info for PSIP, not TVGOS and that TVGOS data is updated automatically at set times throughout the day. So, I wonder if that, after my factory reset, I wasn't seeing TVGOS data because it hadn't been updated yet? Does anyone know what time the TVGOS data gets updated throughout the day? I didn't check this morning to see if it had been updated, so I'll check when I get home this evening.

That said, if all else fails, is there another way, other than in the Menu, to reset the device to factory? Since the recordings aren't erased when I do I reset via the menu-based reset, maybe there's a hardware based reset that'll actually start over again from scratch?

Thanks,
k.
 
#538 ·
My recollection is that it downloaded TVGOS data right away for me when I first installed and completed the channel scan. I could be wrong...and you could be right: The data may only be sent at specific intervals. I suppose you'll know later when you check it! ;)
 
#539 ·
theboyk

It can take a day or two after a reset for the TV Guide logo to appear. I've had it show up almost immediately, and at other times had it not appear until the next day.

Do NOT turn on the TVGuide/TVGuide+ feature. That is for sending the TV Guide data "out the back" of the CM7000 to another attached device that also has TVGOS. It will disable all normal DVR functions of the CM7000, including the guide.

As long as you still have 17.1 or 17.3 turned on, I believe you're good to go. If you delete all three PBS channels you'll lose TVGOS on the CM7000.

A factory reset from the menu is all you need to do to get the CM7000 to start looking for the TVGOS signal again. Can't remember off hand, but the data arrives in several half-hour chunks throughout the day. Just be patient.

Good luck.
 
#541 ·
Brownriggd

What Jase88 says is correct. The CM7000 is very sensitive to dropouts when recording. But...

I noticed this last night on several recordings made yesterday. Play mode was fine - no dropouts - but fast forward/reverse kept freezing and the commercial skip was acting up. Pausing and/or restarting the file did not help. I did a Reset/Reboot and that seemed to fix the problem.

If you're seeing this problem on most recordings over several days, and your signal is not generally crap, you might try reinitializing the device so the firmware loads from scratch.

One big caveat: This was on a CM7400, not the CM7000PAL. Completely different manufacturer and firmware, but it can't hurt to try.
 
#542 ·
I was thinking of doing a complete system reset to see if this helps. In response to Jase88 I'm not seeing any signal dropout or delay (at least visible to the naked eye) during these defective recordings. Just a jerkiness....for example as a car passes by the camera there's a noticeable hesitation or slight pause in the flow like its missing a frame or two....
 
#544 ·
brownriggd, that's a different issue than what I thought. Are you sure this isn't how the video is coming into the dvr?!
 
#545 ·
quote: 'brownriggd, that's a different issue than what I thought. Are you sure this isn't how the video is coming into the dvr?!'

I was wondering the same thing. Will OTA broadcasts do this? So far I've only noticed it on CityTV and Global recorded broadcasts here in the Ottawa area. Has anyone else notice this issue?
 
#547 ·
So far I've only noticed it on CityTV and Global recorded broadcasts here in the Ottawa area. Has anyone else notice this issue?
I haven't noticed this problem with either of those stations, but I am not using a CM7000PAL. It could be a signal strength issue as those are likely your weakest stations.
 
#546 ·
^^^^ CBC is progressive, ie: 720p. You might want to try recording something from there if signal permits.

Can't speak for the Ottawa setups, but via Toronto, CBC and others record here OK, although the motion on CBC is better. Just running into a bizarre issue of recordings not always starting with the PC based 950Q, but that's another issue...

Cameron
 
#548 ·
I've seen the issue that brownriggd mentions. As he says, it's particularly noticeable on motion shots, especially where the shot is panning. Rather than fluid motion, there's a consistent slight hesitation. Like every other frame is missing in the shot. I've always attributed this to a "digital effect". But now that we're discussing it, I do wonder if this issue is caused by the DVR.

Most of my TV viewing is on the DVR. Over the next few days, I'll view on my TV's tuner to see if the issue presents there as well.

If it turns out to be an issue specific to the CM7000Pal, this could be another reason to avoid this product. Particularly if such transient viewing issues are found to be troublesome. Again, the effect is subtle, but certainly noticeable.
 
#550 ·
CMPAL7000 Recording Jerkiness

Unfortunately my TV only accepts component via an adapter plug (breakout cable) which, trust me, produces worse image quality.

I haven't seen this issue on other channel recordings, i.e. CBC and TVO which are by far the strongest signals (in 90 to 100 strength range). Yes, CityTV and Global (particularly Global) are my weaker signals (sometimes in the 60 to 80 ranges).
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top