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Future of the /A\ stations

40K views 238 replies 49 participants last post by  wilspin 
#1 ·
Many have speculated on here that CTVgm was only keeping the /A\ stations around to broadcast their prime-time programming during the Olympics. Now that the Vancouver games are over, the question is will they keep them for another 2 1/2 years for the London games. With the analog shutdown scheduled before then, it seems unlikely. The /A\ stations can be grouped into three categories:

  1. Access
  2. /A\ Atlantic
  3. /A\ Broadcast stations

The Access stations are being discussed in the thread Future of Alberta's Access TV Network? so we will leave discussion of them to that thread.

/A\ Atlantic is only on cable and satellite, so it isn't affected by the analog shutdown, and may continue as is (it may even become a national station).

This leaves the Broadcast stations, which include:
  • CKVR - Barrie, ON
  • CFPL - London, ON
  • CHRO - Pembroke/Ottawa, ON
  • CHWI - Wheatley/Windsor, ON
  • CIVI - Victoria, BC

Some may be sold, some may be merged into the CTV network and some may be shut down. This thread is to discuss what could/should happen to each of these stations.
 
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#2 ·
/A\ Atlantic is probably the most viable of the bunch as it:
1. provides some CTV programming to NFLD at a relatively low cost on the back of CTV Halifax.
2. provides a location for extra CTV programs which would be lost due to CTV Halifax being in a bad time zone.
3. and like Access Alberta provides University programming from Mt. St. Vincent University.
 
#3 ·
My wish for the future of the Victoria /A\ Channel station (CIVI) is purely selfish. Today CIVI is purely in analogue and has an analogue repeater on Mt. Seymour to service the Lower Mainland since its Victoria transmitter and Island repeaters are not strong enough for that.

Since CTV is treating its /A\ Channels as their "B" team in a feat of ironic naming, it means that certain CTV programs that would always be shown in HD (1080i 16:9 DD5.1) on CIVT-DT 33.1 are sometimes shunted off to CIVI, which can only broadcast them in SD. This is unacceptable.

So, my wish is that one of these will soon transpire:
  • CIVI transitions to DTV
  • CTV stops shunting programs to the /A\ Channel
  • CTV sells them off
  • CTV renounces the broadcast rights to all programs it cannot air
I am not hopeful about any of those happening soon, unfortunately.
 
#4 ·
CKVR too close to Toronto - it could be a goner unless they want to keep one secondary A station to cover all of Ontario. Some of the other A or soon to be abandoned CTV repeaters could be used to extend its reach.

CHRO - too close to Toronto - it could be a goner although the studios could live on as CTV Ottawa after the CTV fire - secondary use would be to use it as a repeater or A-Ontario from Barrie

CFPL could become a CTV affiliate which would be strange as Baton broadcasting had an application in to do just that just before the CHUM purchase to make them a part of the newnet group of stations. CHWI would be a goner as there is already a CTV repeater that sort of serves that area. There would probably be some rationalization of repeaters of CKCO and CFPL accross South Western Ontario.

CIVI - would CTV want another CTV outlet for BC. Ironic that with all the past shuffles that CHEK which was once a CTV affiliate would see a competing station pick up the affiliation again.

At best I can only see one A station per province surviving with repeaters somewhat like Sun TV
 
#10 ·
CKVR too close to Toronto - it could be a goner unless they want to keep one secondary A station to cover all of Ontario. Some of the other A or soon to be abandoned CTV repeaters could be used to extend its reach.
That option is possible, but I think it more likely for it to become something like CHCH.

CHRO - too close to Toronto - it could be a goner although the studios could live on as CTV Ottawa after the CTV fire - secondary use would be to use it as a repeater or A-Ontario from Barrie
I assume you mean it is too close to Ottawa. CJOH is still running after the fire, they just moved studios so I doubt if CHRO would become Ottawa's CTV station.

It is likely wishful thinking on my part, but I would love to see it bought by either Rogers or Shaw and become a CITY or Global station for Ottawa, though since both have repeaters here, I don't see why either would do this.

CFPL could become a CTV affiliate
I think this is the best option for CFPL. London is a large enough market to support a local CTV station.

CHWI would be a goner as there is already a CTV repeater that sort of serves that area. There would probably be some rationalization of repeaters of CKCO and CFPL accross South Western Ontario.
They could make CHWI a CTV station and shut down the CTV repeater, but history has shown that CTV doesn't want to do this kind of thing (they shut down CKX-TV instead of CKYB-TV in Brandon, MB).

CIVI - would CTV want another CTV outlet for BC. Ironic that with all the past shuffles that CHEK which was once a CTV affiliate would see a competing station pick up the affiliation again.
Possible, but unlikely for CIVI to become a CTV station. With CHEK under private control, it is unlikely for CIVI to try the same thing. Sun could buy it to have a Western station, but they would likely have bought CHEK if that is what they wanted, though I could see CIVI being more attractive as it has a repeater in Vancouver.

At best I can only see one A station per province surviving with repeaters somewhat like Sun TV
Does Sun TV have a station outside of Ontario?
 
#5 ·
I don't see a big need to keep the channels around until London, almost no shows (except Big Brother) aired episodes against the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.

So if their plan was to get rid of them after the 2010 Olympics, I could see them selling the analogue ones any time. I think they'd be likely to keep 'A' Atlantic and maybe turn it back into a part time Citytv channel, like it was before CTV bought 'A'.

I could see CFPL becoming a CTV affiliate, but I think they'd want to sell the others. I could see Jim Pattison buying CIVI possibly. But I really don't know after what happened with CHEK.

CHRO could be bough by Channel Zero if they want to continue to expand. They would then have the three largest cities in Eastern Canada.

Lastly I can't think of anyone who would want CKVR.
 
#7 ·
I don't see how CFPL could become a CTV affiliate with CKCO being geographically close.

The CKCO repeater in Oil Springs only somewhat covers the north shore area of Essex County (including parts of Windsor). It could certainly use a boost throughout the balance of the county and the CHWI transmitter near Wheatley might make a good spot for another repeater.
 
#8 ·
I don't see how CFPL could become a CTV affiliate with CKCO being geographically close.
Geographically yes, but London and Kitchener are both vastly different cities. CFPL also has Sat. coverage across Canada, something CKCO does not have.

I would like to see CFPL become a CTV affiliate, well anything besides shutting down.
 
#9 ·
Remember, CTV were the biggest proponents of "Saving Local TV" so consumers in Ontario should be holding their feet to the fire about having first class CTV stations in each of the major cities, including Barrie. The point is not to compare the cities with each other, such as with Barrie and Toronto, but rather to have a CTV station in the hub of each geographic area for that maximum "Local TV" payoff.

My suggestion is to turn all the Ontario /A\ Channel stations into CTV stations, with Ottawa being the exception due to the existing CTV station.
 
#13 ·
Remember, CTV were the biggest proponents of "Saving Local TV" so consumers in Ontario should be holding their feet to the fire about having first class CTV stations in each of the major cities, including Barrie. The point is not to compare the cities with each other, such as with Barrie and Toronto, but rather to have a CTV station in the hub of each geographic area for that maximum "Local TV" payoff.
Agreed! Lets see if CTV will put their money where their mouth is. While they are at it, why not get them to resurrect CKX-TV as a local CTV station for Brandon, MB.
 
#12 ·
Channel Zero already has a CHCH re-transmitter in Ottawa, so why do they need CHRO?
Because CHRO is an actual station compared to a simple transmitter. There is no guarantee that they will convert this re-transmitter to digital whereas if they had an actual station there then the odds are better for it to be converted to digital and the station continuing to serve the local community.

How likely is CTV (or any other broadcaster for that matter) to convert all of their re-transmitters to digital when the switch happens?! If they shut some down then those areas lose local TV.

I think these stations should be sold off to independents (if there are any interested parties) and should follow CHCH's lead with an emphasis on local programming and as well as affiliate with either Global or Citytv for their programming. (CTV appears to be getting out of the affiliation game).

CFPL would work as a CTV station even though Kitchener is close by. I don't think they would want to convert CHWI into a CTV station due to the proximity to the USA.
 
#16 ·
Because CHRO is an actual station compared to a simple transmitter.
Interesting thought. With the amount of local programming CHCH now provides, using CHRO to insert programming local to Pembroke/Ottawa while showing programs of regional interest as well as the same movies.

There is no guarantee that they will convert this re-transmitter to digital whereas if they had an actual station there then the odds are better for it to be converted to digital and the station continuing to serve the local community.
I agree there is no guarantee, their application implied that they would. Loosing Ottawa (and London) would hurt their ability to sell advertising (that is one reason why Sun TV applied for repeaters there).

How likely is CTV (or any other broadcaster for that matter) to convert all of their re-transmitters to digital when the switch happens?! If they shut some down then those areas lose local TV.
Don't confuse repeaters with local TV. Unless the repeater has a split feed to insert local programming, there is nothing local about the repeater. Loosing a repeater could help local TV in the long run as allows a local station to affiliate with a large network.

To answer your question, CTV is likely only going to convert transmitters in the markets the CRTC has said they need to do so. Even then, some may be shut down (at least temporarily).

I think these stations should be sold off to independents (if there are any interested parties) and should follow CHCH's lead with an emphasis on local programming and as well as affiliate with either Global or Citytv for their programming. (CTV appears to be getting out of the affiliation game).
Although I don't disagree with you that it would be good, it would be tough for most of the stations to affiliate with another network as many of the markets are already served by nearby stations/repeaters.
 
#14 ·
But what about simo subs?

Lot are forgetting CTV can only simo sub so many shows. if for example they own trhe rights to a show on NBC and one on ABC but ABC & NBC show the same shows at the same time.

ie

Show on NBC Thursday night @ 8PM
Show on ABC Thursday night @ 8PM

If CTV owns the rights to both these shows only one can be simo sub.

If CTVgloibemedia is so big on Simo-subbing US shows then theyt could easily do it using two nets CTV & A

But asuming for a moment CTV wants to keep some of the A open

ASN covers all off the Atlantic
CHRO covers all of eastern & northern Ontario
CKVR covers all of GTA & Southern Ontario
CFPL changes to CTV
CHWI & the other one doiwn in that area shutdown repaters used by CKVR
CIVI covers BC & western Canada.

Who knows what the future holds

for all we know CTV could shut down all the A Channels & Ctv stations and just leave

ASN(CTV) for Atlantic Canada
CTV Montreal for Quebec
CTV Toronto for O)ntario
CTV Winnipeg for Manitobia
CTV(Edmonto or Calgary) for Alberta & Saskaewan
CTV Vancouver for BC

who knows what the future holds.

For all we know there could be new owners for A even CTV anythings possible?

If $$$ is involed to buying something someone wil be willing to listen.
 
#15 ·
Quote from tvlurker
Channel Zero already has a CHCH re-transmitter in Ottawa, so why do they need CHRO?
I didn't realize that CHCH had a re-transmitter in Ottawa, in that case CHRO falls under the same category as CKVR.

Quote from roger1818
The Beijing Olympics were covered by CBC (not CTV), so the comparison isn't valid. I agree though they aren't going to keep a spare network around just for 2 weeks every 2 years.
It is valid. In 2008 almost no show aired new episodes during the Olympics. If that happens again in 2012 (which is likely) then CTV wouldn't need 'A' to put new episodes on because none of their shows would be producing new episodes. During the 2010 Olympics American Idol, Lost and a few other CTV shows did air new episodes against the Olympics, which was the reason why 'A' was needed.
 
#19 ·
Nope. SunTV, OMNI 1 & 2 have DTV transmitters (in HD) in Ottawa. Also Rogers has applied for a DTV transmitter for CITY TV for Ottawa.

Also, TFO does not have a repeater in Ottawa.
 
#21 ·
I don't watch CHCH because I have absolutely zero (0) interest in more T.O. news, but I'll turn on CJNT for background noise during their long music video blocks of program. If you think CJNT is raking in the money from advertisers, you'd be sorely mistaken. The amount of PSA is incredible and other than that, about all I see are CJNT promos and station IDs. I know CJNT is severely crippled being a multi-cultural channel so that explains the piss-poor lack of ads on the station, so maybe CHRO could better duplicate CHCH, assuming they have strong local ads.
 
#24 ·
I still don't get your logic. The only thing in it for Channel Zero would be the local advertising dollars that CHRO-TV-43 (the Ottawa station, not the Pembroke one which doesn't make money) makes. If it's just for the regional and national advertising revenue, then CHCH-DT-1 would be enough.
What I was trying to get at is an actual station might live on whereas a transmitter could get shut down after the switch to digital. If Ch0 decides they want to continue serving this market then why not purchase CHRO instead of just operating a re-transmitter there. I noticed that there are literally hundreds of re-transmitters spread across the country for all the different networks combined, I don't think all of those will be converted to dgital.

I think it would be for the increased market penetration. I don't think many people watch CHCH News in Ottawa as its focus is Hamilton. Having a local news will not only have more viewers during the news broadcast, but it also has the spin-off benefit of allowing them to promo what movies they are showing and get more viewers for them as well.
Exactly!
 
#25 ·
My predictions:

CHRO - I highly doubt CTVgm will wish to keep two stations in Ottawa. They will likely attempt to sell it and if there are any buyers Channel Zero might step forward. Of course if that happens they will have to get rid of their CHCH transmitter up there. Another possible buyer is Rogers for a Citytv outlet, again leading to the shutdown of the transmitter rebroadcasting the Toronto station. If there are no buyers the station will shut down.

CKVR - With its presence in the Toronto market already, I highly doubt CTVgm will want to keep the station, unless they want to rebroadcast CFTO on the transmitter. With the amount of market saturation in the Toronto area, I don't see CKVR having any buyers.

CFPL - The station's evening newscast draws 130,000 viewers (over 25% of area viewers) nightly according to the station's own ads. I anticipate CTV will make the station a CTV station and shut down CKCO's Oil Springs transmitter. With the overlap with CKCO Kitchener, CTV could change the broadcast pattern for the station when converting to digital to be more directional to the west.

CHWI - Like CFPL, I think this station will become a CTV station. Its over-the-air coverage in Michigan, from my understanding, is pretty much limited to downtown Detroit closest to the river, because of how heavily directional the current Channel 60 signal is towards the southeast.

CIVI - I'm not making a prediction on that one as I am a lot less familiar with the B.C. market. Does the CIVT Channel 32 signal from Mount Seymour reach Victoria? If not then there could be a case for CIVI being a CTV affiliate and the repeater in Vancouver being deleted.
 
#29 ·
CHWI - Like CFPL, I think this station will become a CTV station. Its over-the-air coverage in Michigan, from my understanding, is pretty much limited to downtown Detroit closest to the river, because of how heavily directional the current Channel 60 signal is towards the southeast.
Channel 60 is the repeater channel. Channel 16 is the "parent" and has poor coverage into the core of Windsor which is why channel 60 exists.

I think making CHWI a CTV station and shutting down Oil Springs might be a good compromise.
 
#26 ·
CTV Barrie, not another CTV Toronto

The comments I'm seeing here about CKVR seem to have a "what's good for Toronto" bias. The future of CKVR should be all about "what's good for Barrie and area" instead! :mad:

As I've said, CTV (the folks who keep blabbing about saving local television) need to practice what they preach. Turn CKVR into a CTV channel for the folks who deserve a local station, then cut its contour to avoid overlap with CFTO.
 
#32 ·
The comments I'm seeing here about CKVR seem to have a "what's good for Toronto" bias. The future of CKVR should be all about "what's good for Barrie and area" instead! :mad:
I agree. If Kitchener is about the same distance from Toronto as Barrie and it has its own CTV station. Why can't Barrie have one?
 
#27 ·
I would suggest CTV keeps the A Channel service and have it OTA. But, I would suggest that it become a sub-channel for CTV affiliates, and any other stations what would be interested as having it as a sub-channel.

Example...

CHRO (Ottawa/Pembrooke), shut this down, and place this on CJOH-DT x.2 when CJOH goes digital.

The same should be done with the A Atlantic. Shut it down, use the main A Channel service mentioned above, but placed on the x.2 of the Halifax CTV station.

Also, offer the A Channel service to any other none CTV affiliate that may want to use it as a sub-channel.

As for the other A Channels that don't work for CTV, then sell them off to somebody else.
 
#36 ·
I would suggest CTV keeps the A Channel service and have it OTA. But, I would suggest that it become a sub-channel for CTV affiliates, and any other stations what would be interested as having it as a sub-channel.
Interesting idea. My fear is markets can only support so many local stations and if one network is given 2 it could restrict competition, especially in smaller markets. If this is done, it should be considered a twin-stick and as such approved (or denied) using existing criteria.

I personally don't like that CTVgm owns 2/3 of the local English language stations in Ottawa and the resulting conflict of interest has already shown itself in the reduction of local news on CHRO. When CTV bought CHUM, they shouldn't have been allowed to keep CHRO. Instead, it should have been sold to Rogers and the CITY repeater in Ottawa could have been kept by CTVgm to show one of the other A channels.
 
#28 ·
Can I be a little selfish here?

I would much prefer that CFPL completely shut down as it really inhibits my reception of WOIO-DT 19 from Cleveland Ohio.

Prior to the DT conversion state side, we used to be able to watch this CBS affiliate from Cleveland. The other CBS affiliate (Erie PA) is awful.
 
#37 ·
Can I be a little selfish here?

I would much prefer that CFPL completely shut down as it really inhibits my reception of WOIO-DT 19 from Cleveland Ohio.
You are certainly permitted to be a little selfish here. I just don't understand why CFPL (on VHF 10) inhibits your reception of WOIO-DT (on UHF 19). This is off topic for this thread so it should be discussed elsewhere.
 
#30 ·
I still don't understand why are we discussing all of this based on pure speculation? I have not heard anything through Cartt.ca or other similar sites to suggest anything like this is or might be happening. Quite frankly, I don't think the CRTC would let them shut down all these stations especially after all of CTV's campaigning to "save" local tv. It would be totally hypocritical of them to shut down anything right now and would make them look like total a$$es for doing it.
 
#31 ·
I'm with vjose78 on this. I think we're being presumptuous here and concocting hypothetical scenarios based on pure speculation without knowing if CTV has any intentions whatsoever to dismantle the A Channel network. Besides, it's silly to think that CTV kept around the A Channel network just so they could air a couple of new episodes by a couple of US series, while the Olympics were being broadcast. If anything, it's likely cost prohibitive.
 
#34 ·
We are just dreamers.

My plan and thoughts:

/A\ Atlantic be the national CTV-B channel, and be available for a sub-channel for CTV digital transmitters. It could be that being it now is cable/satellite only, they get carriage compensation for it. Unless FFC comes to pass, broadcasting it might change the status of it.

Merge CKCO, CFPL, and CHWI to one group, and CKVR and CFTO to another, and the Ottawa/Pembroke stations into another, same for the Vancouver stations. They would all basically be CTV stations with their own newscasts. Probably though London/Windsor/Kitchener are distinct enough for their own local newcasts.

Channel Zero does not need to buy CHRO if they want an Ottawa region station, just apply for a new license and build a studio and other neccessary facilities. They already have the transmitter.
Same for Rogers or anybody else, if they want an Ottawa station.
 
#39 ·
roger1818 said:
I personally don't like that CTVgm owns 2/3 of the local English language stations in Ottawa and the resulting conflict of interest has already shown itself in the reduction of local news on CHRO. When CTV bought CHUM, they shouldn't have been allowed to keep CHRO. Instead, it should have been sold to Rogers and the CITY repeater in Ottawa could have been kept by CTVgm to show one of the other A channels.
roger1818,
CTVgm did want to sell the A Channel stations when they purchased CHUM, but the CRTC wouldn't allow it IIRC. So they instead sold the CITY TV stations to Rogers.

Anyways, I'm not shedding any tears for the cancellation of A Ottawa's evening and late night newscasts. It wasn't that good anyways, and it was behind both CTV and CBC in the ratings IIRC. They weren't telling any stories that the other two weren't either - I mean how many different channels do we really need to devote to stories about the mayor, city council, Landsdowne Park, OC Transpo, the Ottawa Senators, a crash on the Queensway, and the usual criminal activities. Nothing of much interest locally ever goes down in Ottawa to be honest - having lived here for 20+ years, I can safely say this town is pretty dull. Besides, with the emergence of the internet as a source for news, I don't see it as a problem anymore as they are hundreds of more ways to get news faster and that is up to date.
 
#40 ·
CTVgm did want to sell the A Channel stations when they purchased CHUM, but the CRTC wouldn't allow it IIRC. So they instead sold the CITY TV stations to Rogers.
Not quite true. It is true that when CTVgm purchased CHUM they wanted to keep the CityTV stations and offered to sell the A channel stations. The CRTC said the were required to sell the CityTV stations but they were permitted to keep the A channel stations. Being permitted to do something doesn't mean you are required to do it.

Besides, I feel the mistake was made by the CRTC for permitting CTVgm keep CHRO. It should have been bundled with the CItyTV stations.
 
#41 ·
I know the majority of /A\ viewers--like most conventional stations in Canada--tune in via a BDU, but I'm surprised /A\ never built a OTA repeater in Toronto.

Either way, I believe they are a viable network, with good programming, and an owner with deep pockets. So their future is likely secure.
 
#42 ·
I'm surprised /A\ never built a OTA repeater in Toronto.
I don't think the CRTC would allow it as it would then rapidly become a Toronto station. CHRO is a special case since Pembroke was considered too small to support a station on its own and they needed the Ottawa market to survive. Even though promises were made that programming would remain local to Pembroke, it has slowly deteriorated and it is now an Ottawa station in all but name (similar to the way Global Ontario has now become Global Toronto).

As a comparison, Pembroke's CA population is only 23 thousand, where as Barrie's CMA population is 177 thousand and is the fasted growing CMA in Canada.
 
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