Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums - Reply to Topic
Thread: heating costs-hydro vs propane Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
2015-06-24 02:42 PM
txv Good information, but you have to add in distribution costs and hst.

Dryer is about 5kwh per cycle from what i've seen; i've never had a full load of clothes dry in 60 minutes.

Biggest killer users: Furnace fans, anything with electric resistance heaters, a/c, dehumidifiers, halogen potlights with 4-12 50 watt lamps per room.
2015-06-22 04:23 PM
unlike_me You are definitely dealing with some issue there. The issue with Hydro is the add on costs. Look at your bills and see what your actual usage is. Many believe a washer and dryer are huge expenses, but not really. Consider it this way. On average, a simple washer may use 500watts and as you know, 0 watts is a kw. I kwh costs at peak 16.1 cents. This means your washer costs 8 cents to run for one hour. Washer seldom run an hour. Your dryer will dry a load in 30 minutes, and may be of assorted wattages these days. Consider worst case, and it is about 30 cents to dry. I do my laundry weekends or after 7 pm and that cost is halved. There are only two of us, and I seldom have more than 2 loads a week, and sometime not that much. Look at your appliances and the wattage. Look at your lights. I altered my lighting by adding dimmers, and got led bulbs. There are often coupons for these bulbs and while the cost is out front, a 60 watt bulb equivilenr is now using 3 watts. Add a dimmer onto that, and your lights cost you pennies a month.

There have been billing issues and my mom herself received huge bills that have to be wrong, though she will not let me look into it. My folks paid equal billing and the spring after dad passed, my mom attempted to change over her bill. Their equal billing was 380 per month (high in my opinion) and by spring, the bill was going down. They informed my mom she would need to pay 2000 dollars to buy into the current equal billing process and her next bill was 700!!! I don't pay 2700 for the year!! To get to the point... Check your bills, consider the wattage of your appliances... and make sure you are not paying for someone's mistake. Hydro is not great, but propane is costly also and my mom ran out 4 times this year due to late deliveries.
2014-03-18 08:57 PM
Jase88 I don't see propane prices remaining high. They just didn't count on such a cold winter, and thus supply became low.

Electricity, on the other hand, will remain high with price increases going forward.

If it were me, I'd choose propane as the lesser of the two evils. Geothermal is cost prohibitive to most.
2014-03-18 08:15 PM
Davee See if lake heat source geo thermal makes sense. If lake frozen only late december to say mid April it Might work out Are you staying all winter? Do you need a well anyway?

Radiant heated floor with modulating propane boiler is a good option Check out Legalett.com for a simple fool proof system This is what I use + a propane stand alone fireplace which does not need power

Do not use an instant hot water heater as the constant cycling & freeze protection can be a problem Several destroyed near us this winter!
Propane is high this year ( USA corn drying in fall ate up reserves) but I have not seen any good info on next years pricing

Do not consider pellet stoves as they require constant attention & a back up
2014-03-18 04:58 PM
mikec If you can afford it, it sounds like geothermal is the way to go.
2014-03-18 04:52 PM
clarify I am rebuilding a rural cottage and am totally frustrated trying to sort out the most cost-effective, energy efficient way to heat it. It is 850 sq ft. no natural gas in the area. It is also beside a lake, so no oil. Which leaves me geothermal or propane-fired boiler for radiant floor or hydro-fired boiler. I understand Hydro rates are going up by 40% over 5 years and the price of propane doubled this winter with more increases on the way? How do I sort this out? Any help would be appreciated.
2012-07-18 03:37 PM
mikec Our house is roughly 30 years old. It's a side split (basement, main floor, and half a second floor). Natural Gas isn't available, but possible in the distant future. We were heating with baseboard heaters, and an air right wood burning fireplace on the main level. We try to burn wood 24/7 but the baseboards would always kick on in the middle of the night, or when we were at work.

A few years ago we took advantage of the energy audit and rebates and I installed a 98% propane forced air furnce with 13 seer central air. Obviously I had to run ductwork as well. I did the majority of the work myself after paying a company to do a heat loss/gain and load calc. I ran all the ductwork, and had a pro come in to run the gas lines and line set for the a/c. It's been 2 years and we are really happy.

We are paying $0.69 for propane, and the price hasn't changed in years apparently. If NG does come our way it's easy enough to switch the gas valve back to NG. We still try and burn wood as much as possible, but we find the propane as a backup has been cheaper. Plus the AC has been a very nice addition.

Our hydro bills have been split in half from about $300 a month equal billing, to around $150 on average. I know we don't spend $1800 a year in propane.

My water heater is still electric tank. I have looked into switching it to tankless but we are on a well. But even propane water heater, everyone keeps saying to keep what I have.
2012-07-18 10:19 AM
276YT http://www.geo-exchange.ca/en/profit...estimation.php
2012-06-29 11:10 PM
276YT http://www.retscreen.net/ang/ground_...ok_chapter.php

..... this may answer some of your concerns.
2012-06-23 03:24 PM
276YT ... Based on what collected data are the estimated o.p. savings are calculated?

Annual estimated o.p. savings can also be quoted based by a blueprint from a home not build jet?.
2012-06-03 04:08 PM
Jim418 I've been working through the same issue as OP: Propane vs Ground Source Heat Pump, since I won't have access to NG for my new home in Kingston.

As others have noted, the answer is always dependent on your variables so I created a spreadsheet to work them through. It has many of the variables "57" noted above.

Here are the worksheets I've developed to compare the long-term costs of different systems.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VJQb013TlBrRGc

The first tab (Cost by Energy Source) has data on energy use and the current energy/operating cost by equipment type.

The second tab (Long Term cost per year) calculates the discounted cost of equipment and operating cost over the life of the equipment. It then divides that total number by the life of the equipment by the number of years and compares the results.

Anybody care to look for logic errors? If anyone would like the Excel version emailed to them, just PM me your email address.

The main result that I am struggling with is the annual heating cost of geothermal. Seems crazy low, but is consistent with this website's result when I change the energy use to their value and the COP to 3 (it doesn't say what COP it used).

Thanks in advance for your help.
2012-04-19 06:50 PM
Darsam32 Did you look at the new mini split units imho perfect for a bungalow,I am sure the average low temperature in Wawa is a little colder than Orangeville but my Mits has no trouble keeping my house warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
2012-04-19 04:53 PM
Jake I had read that Canadian propane prices are set in Texas. With that said there are a few places online that will show you the spot prices for propane.

Here is one I am looking at right now.

http://205.254.135.7/dnav/pet/hist/L...RS_NUS_DPG&f=W

I see it going up modestly since 2002 from 1.12 to 2.86 last month. About 10% per year if my math is right.
2012-04-19 03:23 PM
wawajake Thanks Davee. I hope your right. I do see how it is very hard to find out posted propane costs in Ontario. It is sort of like trying to find out the secret handshake of The Freemasons
Any other thoughts from other posters experience?
2012-04-19 01:40 PM
Davee
Should be fine

With your high efficiency unit You should be fine. I have a spreadsheet for comparing & used it to prove that off peak power is cheaper than propane at about 60% efficency . But just barely!
I have looked at upgrading but the cost is prohibitive until my current unit dies
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome