I can see your point, but I won't call to have RL stop serving that over cooked dried out stuff because some people actually do like it, and what right do I have to tell people not to eat there, just because I may not like the food.
We would live in a really bland world, if we caved to eveyones request to ban/rid the world of EVERYTHING that the whole world couldn't agree on...
Who cares if no one else bt Canada cares about hockey... I do care, and millions of other have cared too in the last 100 or so years. changing the game just to try and attract more "fans" is not the right thing to do for hockey, maybe for business, but not the game itself.
The game has managed to survive for this long, so don't try and give me some sob story on how the game is dying because of fighting...
Worry about parenting your kids and don't blame a hockey fight on their social issues.
Kids seeing a player fight someone who has "assaulted" a team mate isn't the end of the world, and may actually show them that it is right to stand up to bullies, and not cower when a friend is attacked...
If the fight is wrong in your opinion, explain that to your child, and tell him it was wrong. Just remember how bad hockey fighting is for kids to see when you let them play COD4, GTA3 or any other video game that "glorifies" violence...

You're Canadian. You like hockey. Who's the sheep in that equation? Baaaaa...

Don't compare hockey to a sport like boxing. In boxing, both fighters go in knowing what they're getting into. In hockey, some kid might just want to skate and score goals, but he has to watch out for some goon who wants to fight. That's why parents are holding off on enrolling their kids into hockey.

And I am not so turned off by fighting that I will stop watching. Most of any game is still skating and scoring goals. But I have the opinion that the fighting part of hockey has run its course. They just need to make the penalty a one-game suspension.

It's going to happen. Fighting will be stopped.

You're Canadian. You like hockey. Who's the sheep in that equation? Baaaaa...
Hahahahahaha
If I was from Australia, and liked surfing, would I be a sheep there too?
Give your head a shake man
You are telling me you will follow the WJC when other countries start to care about it, and then call me a sheep?
I said I like hockey, because I like the sport. You keep telling me we have to get others to like the sport, so it can grow....Sounds like a sheep herder to me?

In boxing, both fighters go in knowing what they're getting into. In hockey, some kid might just want to skate and score goals, but he has to watch out for some goon who wants to fight.
Dude, watch a hockey fight, and then come back and tell me one of the fighters doesn't want to fight
If one of the players doesn't want to fight, he will not drop his gloves, and protect himself, if the ref/linesmen hasn't separated them already
Unless the guy DOESN'T drop his gloves, both fighters are willing participants.
You are a troll, who doesn't watch hockey (you have admitted that)
That's why parents are holding off on enrolling their kids into hockey.
Do you think the skyrocketing cost of equipment and registration fees factor into that equation ? Or is it just the fear of fighting ?

Fine, you are unique, you aren't a sheep like me... Leave the game of hockey to us sheep, and go and watch whatever obscure sport you want, cause you ain't gonna be like everyone else man....
I hear Sepak isn't popular at all here in Canada, why not start following that sport. Lemme know if you are serious, as I have an extra Takraw ball in the garage, and wouldn't mind giving it to you...:rolleyes:

I'm gonna go and wash my wool coat, have a great evening :D

I've never heard of whatever sport you just mentioned.

My argument has nothing to do with growing the game.

I do watch hockey.

And you brought up some ridiculous argument about sheep.

Why are the pro-fighting guys so defensive. It's like you think I'm part of the competition committee. That, or you know the writing is on the wall.

BINGO!!! He knows the writing is on the wall. Apparently, if you don't agree with him, you're not a fan of the NHL. Whatever...It's pointless having a debate with someone that equates not liking hockey fights but watching hockey to being allergic to shellfish and going to Red Lobster. :rolleyes:

Did you see the fight when Roy's kid fought the other goalie...sure looked like 2 willing participants to me. :rolleyes:

Fighting in hockey has run it's course - deal with it. Fighting now vs fighting in the 80's is totally different. Stronger penalties will deter it enough. That doesn't change the game...it just makes the fighters/teams think twice.

I've never heard of whatever sport you just mentioned.

Its a real popular sport in Thailand, you should check it out, there is no fighting in it either...

My argument has nothing to do with growing the game.

Your argument doesn't but others have mentioned it

I do watch hockey.

It sure doesn't sound like it. I know you don't watch the Juniors, even if it is the gold medal game...

And you brought up some ridiculous argument about sheep.

Really? I went back through my posts and couldn't find where I referenced Sheep, well, until after I read this You're Canadian. You like hockey. Who's the sheep in that equation? Baaaaa...

Why are the pro-fighting guys so defensive. It's like you think I'm part of the competition committee. That, or you know the writing is on the wall.

I don't know what wall you are looking at, but I don't see any writing... I wonder why it is, whenever there is an injury, the anti fighting alliance all holds hands, and prays to end the violence...
Why do you get so worked up, and try to get everyone onboard with your knee jerk reaction to the unfortunate death of this young man?
Honestly asif, if you wouldn't have posted in the WJC thread, I wouldn't have enjoyed rebutting your silly posts... But I like pointing out your contradictions, especially when you make a rude comment in a thread congratulating the Juniors (hockey) success...

Paully, read the thread congratulating the Juniors on their Gold Medal...
Sounds like a great hockey fan to me...
We are arguing about the NHL, are we not with regards to the fighting?
And was Roy not suspended? Isn't that what you want?
So whats the big deal?
Not the atom, not junior, not senior, not bantam...
You don't have to agree with me to be a fan of the NHL, but when you say you liked seeing so and so fight, as asif did, and then want to ban fighting, it just doesn't make sense...
Please explain how fighting is different now than it was in the 80's, this should be a good one...;)
Fighting is here to stay....If you don't like it, or can't stomach the sight of it, find another ice sport
Curling, Ringette and women's hockey will accept you non fight fans with open arms...
Hugs :D

I say get rid of ten teams. This will stop the need for diluted rosters and give the skill players a forum for which to shine. The fighting will then disappear on its own, and a better, faster game will ensue.

I say get rid of ten teams. This will stop the need for diluted rosters and give the skill players a forum for which to shine. The fighting will then disappear on its own, and a better, faster game will ensue.
This would be the most ideal solution - get back to a 24 team league. It'll never happen though. :(

Many people asked me after the holidays if I watched the World Juniors. Obviously understanding I'm as big a hockey nut as anyone else they've ever met. But this year, for the first time, I didn't bother. A few years ago I was jumping up and down, but as the years have gone by, I just get this feeling it's like only Canada cares. Nothing to jump up and down about. And no, these young kids are not off fighting in a war. They're playing hockey and prepping themselves to get drafted into the NHL. Don't make it to be more than it is. I'm glad they won, and I did miss out on an exciting game against Russia. But whatever. And if you don't believe me, ask Mike Toth of Sportsnet. He's said himself on many occasions that he's not a fan of the World Juniors, because other countries don't care. Knock me if you want, but you can't knock him if he's a hockey fan. And btw, he's also against fighting in hockey.

So stop with the argument that I can't make an argument because I said "yawn" to the WJC.

Back to the fighting issue. Things change. Yes, back in the 80's fighting was out of control. I was a kid and I remember it was like WWF wrestling. One thing about the Leafs is no matter how bad they were losing, they always seemed to win the fights. And that always felt like a victory.

But now that I've grown up, I've come to realize that all the excuses for fighting don't make any sense. Hockey is a tough, contact sport. But so is football. Players can fight if they want in football, and in any sport, but the the penalty is usually a suspension, and not just to sit out for 5min of the same game.

On top of that, the NHL and hockey in general has lost complete control. As with anything, if you don't put in measures to control, everything will get out of hand. Case in point, Michael Farber mentioned yesterday that there was talk in the early 90's of reducing rosters by one spot. That could have affected how fighting progressed because teams coudn't afford to dress a player who only commands 5min of ice time.

But that's what happened. Teams realized they could dress a guy who wasn't there to play on a regular line. No PP time. No penalty killing. Just a guy to come out and threaten the other team if someone laid out a big hit.

But since big hits don't happen all the time, the tough guys of the league have justified their existence by agreeing to fight each other game after game. A complete sideshow. Tough guy for Team A fights tough guy for Team B. They both totally respect each other and like each other. It's a fraternity. This has nothing to do with hockey.

If the NHL could go back to fights that happened naturally, then that would be one thing. That would be better than how things are now. But the more you think about it, they might as well stop encouraging fighting completely.

In baseball, it's understood a pitcher will throw at a hitter in a certain situation. But the penalty isn't a 5min rest. The penalty is you get kicked out. That's what they need to do in hockey.

Well said - and I agree 100%

I got it now. You don't like WC JR Hockey (where you get kicked out for fighting) because "others" don't care. You don't like the NHL because you don't get kicked out for fighting.

Maybe the "others" don't care for WC JR Hockey because there is no fighting.

I just get this feeling it's like only Canada cares. Nothing to jump up and down about
You are right, Canada is the only Country that cares. They are the only country that cares about fighting too... You decided to stop watching the WJC because no one but Canada cares, so why not do the same with the NHL? Why do you need others to like hockey for you to justify it is OK to watch?
Try this, watch what you want. TV shows, movies, sports that YOU find entertaining, not what others say is good. If you don't want to watch it, fine, but don't try and change what others DO like to watch

The "*yawn*
When other countries care about this tournament, I will too."
It sounded like you never cared about his tournament, and I guess I thought that someone who would chime in with a rude comment in a thread congratulating the boys for their win as a non hockey fan. I hope you can see how easy that mistake could be made. I know they are not going off to war, and hockey is just a game.
BUT, it IS a big tournament, and if you didn't have anything nice to say, it is wise to not say anything, because a rude comment like the one you made can make people think you are a troll, or just someone who doesn't like hockey, rather than someone who was happy, and proud of the accomplishment they achieved.

You can't un-ring a bell, even with your eloquent explanation for your comments...
Enough with the "other countries don't care"
I don't care that they don't care...
Back to the fighting
The top "goon" in the league has fought a whopping 15 times.... That works out to roughly once, every 3 games....Hardly as often as you non fighters would like us to believe contrary to all the hype...
And he is the player with the MOST fights in the league...
I think that the misguided effort to "grow" the game has helped in getting guys you hate into the league, by diluting the talent pool...

I am happy that you are bending a bit (my brainwashing is working:D) with respect to allowing fights to occur naturally, but this will likely not happen if severe suspensions are imposed for what currently, results in 5min...
I think the writing on the wall may have been in pencil, and those hockey fight madmen have erased it! :eek:

Why don't you guys try to make an actual argument. haystack is talking about nothing. He says something about me not liking the NHL. What are you talking about? Who are you? Perhaps you only like the NHL because someone else told you to.

And for i hate tv, a argument FOR fighting is not to say, "well don't watch if you don't like it". I will continue to watch the NHL because I'm a fan. Most fans who are anti-fighting will continue to watch. Although come to think of it, if I tune into a game, and the "usual goons" are about to fight, I actually don't stop everything to see what happens. It's not even a real fight. They're not even trying to hurt each other. It's a sideshow.

And your mention of how few fights the toughest guy in the league has only goes to show fighting could easily be eliminated from the game (or one game suspensions as I have argued), and no one would notice.

I have a feeling when the fighting penalty is increased, and fighting practically comes to a halt, you will still watch the NHL. Meaning you will come to the.....light side.

Why don't you guys try to make an actual argument. haystack is talking about nothing. He says something about me not liking the NHL. What are you talking about? Who are you? Perhaps you only like the NHL because someone else told you to.
I think haystack raised a good point. You seem to be contradicting yourself...

And for i hate tv, a argument FOR fighting is not to say, "well don't watch if you don't like it". I will continue to watch the NHL because I'm a fan.
In your opinion, and you are entitled to it, you are a fan...I would disagree...
My other argument, is that it has been in the game since the get go.
And, the fans like it.
And, it allows for some form of accountability
And I don't need to change the game, just to attract "fans" (I'm using the term loosely) that don't like the game in its current state, very similar to the way the game has been played for the last 100 years...
I could list some more points, but I'm sure you will have some lame excuse on how fighting is ruining the game, ruining our children, ruining the chance of expansion/growth, killing players.....
I think that if you are unhappy with the way the game is played, but many others are happy with it, then don't watch.
Is that such a hard concept to grasp?
Is it wrong for me to tell you to not watch hockey because you don't like seeing a fight? Why ?
I like the chance of seeing a fight...You don't, that's fine, don't watch.
Why ruin it for those that like to see fighting? Because in your infinite wisdom, you have decided that fighting has "run its course"?
Why do you, and other pacifist/non fight advocates think that eliminating fighting will be the saviour for the sport ?

And your mention of how few fights the toughest guy in the league has only goes to show fighting could easily be eliminated from the game (or one game suspensions as I have argued), and no one would notice.

People would notice. I was just pointing out your fear mongering, on how rampant fighting is, and how it has "changed" since the days when you enjoyed watching fighting. I am not asking for fights every period, but I am saying don't take them out of the game through suspensions...
If a dirty player takes liberties with another player, I think he should be held accountable for his actions.
I have a feeling when the fighting penalty is increased, and fighting practically comes to a halt, you will still watch the NHL. Meaning you will come to the.....light side.
God forbid that happens, but if it does, I will quit watching hockey...Until countries other than Canada begin to care about it, and when they do, I will jump on the bandwagon, because I can't think for myself, and need others to like something, so I can justify liking it too...:rolleyes:

Why does "accountability" come into question? If a guy lays out another guy with a clean bodycheck, why does he now have to be accountable for it? Maybe a safety in football should watch out before he tackles a wide receiver, because one of the goons on the sidelines might come after him.

Hockey fans everywhere will rejoice when goons like you don't attend games.
You mean Canadian hockey fans, right? We are the only country that cares about hockey if I remember correctly...
But if you and your movement has their way, and are able to save hockey, we can bring the game to everyone....Sans fighting of course...
Hahahaha, me and the other 18, 000 goons that attend the games...Yea, get rid of those 18, 000 who like fights, and you can then play to an empty house...
C'mon SuperFan, you are proving that you don't watch the games...
Find me a video of a fight, when all the "fans" are not cheering for the fight....Good luck, you are NOT going to find one....
Why not pick up crocheting, and then whenever a goon starts a fight, you can crochet a mask to cover you eyes... With all of the fights, you could start selling your crocheting to other "fans" to prevent them from seeing these barbarians (gasp) fighting....
I guess the picture on my HD tv is lying to me, when I see the 18, 000 FANS cheering for a fight....
You slay me fine sir!

Why does "accountability" come into question? If a guy lays out another guy with a clean bodycheck, why does he now have to be accountable for it? Maybe a safety in football should watch out before he tackles a wide receiver, because one of the goons on the sidelines might come after him.
Good point.... I guess ? :confused:
I have played football, and hockey, competitively, and if you don't think that a player will remember being hit, and will try and return the favor, you don't know squat about football, or hockey...
Just because a guy hits another, it doesn't mean there has to be a fight? Enough with the fear mongering....

I keep referencing the Van Ryn hit, which was not clean, actually it was very dirty...
I don't have to see a fight for a clean hit, capiche?
BUT when a cowardly hit from behind occurs, that almost results in a serious injury (yea, he's only been out for what, 15 games...) I want to see justice served, immediately, and then he can deal with the Kangaroo court system later and get his suspension...
Go and watch Curling my friend, there is no fighting there...

The 17,999 fans will rejoice when you're not there. Because you're the kind of guy who starts a fight in football after he gets tackled. I bet you go after those little old ladies who cut you off in the parking lot, too.

And what if the solution to the illegal hit was a real punishment, instead of the kangaroo court from Collie and the boys. It's those dinosaurs like Colin Campbell that need to get with the times.

The 17,999 fans will rejoice when you're not there. Because you're the kind of guy who starts a fight in football after he gets tackled.

Asif....WATCH A GAME
EVERYONE in the stands is up, cheering when there is a fight...I don't know what parallel universe you live in, because the games I watch (maybe you just aren't watching the games, just like the WJC) the FANS love the fights...
Maybe in your bizarro universe, where everything is opposite, the fans are standing during a fight BOOING, I don't know....:rolleyes:

I was never in a fight in 9 years of football. I played defensive end/linebacker, and Offensive tackle, so I wasn't tackled enough to make me fight I guess... I did fight in hockey, none of the "show boating" you mention, but I did stick up for my team mates, when the opposition took liberties...

I bet you go after those little old ladies who cut you off in the parking lot, too.

Huh? Don't make me bring up Red Lobster again!!! :D Hey look behind you, a unicorn!
Road rage isn't an issue for me... But way to connect the dots....
Enjoy hockey fights = Beat up old ladies.....
I'm laughing reading this post!

And what if the solution to the illegal hit was a real punishment, instead of the kangaroo court from Collie and the boys. It's those dinosaurs like Colin Campbell that need to get with the times.
Am I wrong, in suggesting that Kostopoulos got off easy, with a mere 3 game suspension, when the victim of his illegal hit is still not playing (15 games and counting?)
Nevermind the broken nose, broken hand, chipped teeth, and a concussion to boot... Yea, the NHL kangaroo court handled that infraction well....
It was a very dirty hit, on a defenseless player, from behind, and it could have ended his career (it still may, who knows with post concussion syndrome)
He should have been punched out right then, willing combatant or not. Situations like that is when I think fighting needs to stay in the game.

Your last point almost made sense until you said he should have been punched out right then. I think we're agreeing the NHL needs to hand out proper penalties. If fighting penalties were ever increased, the NHL would also need to increase the penalties for hitting from behind, etc.

If everything was done properly, we could end up with exciting hockey that hardly ever has fights. Hockey like you see in the Olympics (which every country cares about a lot...makes winning sweeter). Hockey like you see in the playoffs (minus a few fights). Hockey with tons of skill, and when a guy makes a legal hit, you just shake it off like a wide receiver or running back and show you can take it. If someone does something illegal, the NHL suspends for long periods of time. Find an amount of time where players really, really think about things before they do them.

Right now, the top thing on any player's mind is to do what it takes to keep his job. He's not thinking about penalties.

FIRST AND LAST WARNING

I've had complaints about this thread. Frankly, I am not going to wade through it except to say the following.

Any more insults in this thread will result in the member being given an infraction and their posts removed.

I would ask that members please report any future incidents so that a moderator can take care of any problems.