I enjoyed those fights. The thing is, I have no problem watching two guys fight. I enjoy boxing and MMA. I just don't see why fighting HAS to be in hockey. Hockey is about scoring goals. And when I watch hockey that doesn't have fighting, I don't miss it. What I really enjoy is good offense.

I didn't have a problem with the way the game was in the 80's and 90's. But it's just gone too far over the line. Like I said, a 5min penalty doesn't mean anything, so GM's sign up goons who have no role but to fight. And they keep their jobs by fighting each other. It's like their not even part of the team.

And the problems did start long ago. Back when Domi was beating Probert and showing off his "belt". That definitely wasn't hockey.

Anyways, did you guys know Gordie Howe only did his "hat trick" twice? Maybe all that fighting and bodychecking wasn't as prevalent as you think.

Anyways, did you guys know Gordie Howe only did his "hat trick" twice? Maybe all that fighting and bodychecking wasn't as prevalent as you think.
Actually, according to the internetting
Howe had 3 GHHT. He had his final one in his final NHL fight on Oct. 26/1967 vs the Seals.
I'm glad that you admitted that you enjoyed watching hockey fights, as I have, and I think most hockey fans would agree with you. Now to take that out of the game, because people who don't appreciate the game think it is too violent is absurd.
Not every fight involves "goons", some involve the league MVP...

When you say most hockey fans would agree.... I think your off base. Not sure how you define a "hockey fan", but even hockey guys like Pierre Maguire say it's time for fighting to be taken out. It's not about whether a fight from back in the day was enjoyable. It's just run its course. And it's a different world today.

Real hockey players didn't wear helmets back in the day. But that changed. Things change. I think the main argument by pro-fighting guys is that fighting is as much a part of the game as body-checking and skating and scoring goals. Almost like tackling is part of football.

But the other side of the argument says that while football can't be played without tackling, a good hockey game can actually go 60min without a fight. Body-checking is definitely necessary. But fighting isn't.

When you say most hockey fans would agree.... I think your off base. Not sure how you define a "hockey fan", but even hockey guys like Pierre Maguire say it's time for fighting to be taken out. It's not about whether a fight from back in the day was enjoyable. It's just run its course. And it's a different world today.

I define hockey fans, as those who watch "their" team play, pay money to go to games, can actually name a few players on "their" team etc...
Those who watch it if they are at a friends house, and it is on, I don't consider fans.
[/QUOTE]


Real hockey players didn't wear helmets back in the day. But that changed. Things change. I think the main argument by pro-fighting guys is that fighting is as much a part of the game as body-checking and skating and scoring goals. Almost like tackling is part of football.

But the other side of the argument says that while football can't be played without tackling, a good hockey game can actually go 60min without a fight. Body-checking is definitely necessary. But fighting isn't.

Helmets were introduced as a safety precaution. It doesn't change the game, just like putting a net up to protect fans from pucks. How is body-checking such an integral part of the game, when you can watch some of the most exciting hockey during the all star game, and the only contact there is a high five.... You could take body-checking out, and the game would be just as interesting, wouldn't it? A good hockey game CAN be played without any body contact, just watch the all star game, or even some mens/ladies no-contact league games...

The Sun article yesterday got a lot of people talking, and in today's paper, over 80% of those who wrote in, thought that fighting SHOULD stay in the game... Quite an interesting stat, considering that all of those that wrote in were hockey fans.
I think a poll should be done of people leaving an NHL game, not people at the supermarket, over the phone, leaving the ballet....
Get the opinion of those who LOVE the game, not from people who don't even follow hockey...

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but look at the fans in the stands when a fight erupts, and then try and convince me that hockey fights have run their course...

I don't care if everyone doesn't like hockey. I do, and so do millions of others...Should we change the game, just to try and get more people to like it? No
I don't think there HAS to be fights in every game, but the option should be there, just as it always has.

Here is a project for any of those that think the fans don't want fights in the game. Try and find 1 fight, were the fans didn't stand up to watch the fight... Good luck
They may not have liked the outcome, especially if their guy lost, but I bet EVERYONE was standing, not to avoid seeing the action, but to get a better view....Yea, I know, "real fans", the ones who paid money to see their team don't like fighting...

OK, fine, he bodychecked, but back in those days the checks were less devastating, and name me 1 player from that era who fought?
You can't can you...



Fontinato
Cahan
Rocket Richard
Henri Richard
Pilote
MacNeil
Lindsay
Balfour
Howe
F.Kennedy
Hull
Bouchard
Irwin
Olmstead
Labine
Pulford
Horton
Evans
Bonin
Mortson
Shack
Gadsby
Nesterenko


Took me two minutes of internetting to find these. Looks like fightings been ruining the game since well before the 50's. Wonder how it's ever survived.

As for that poll. It was taken right after Sanderson's death.

Anyone who thinks the all-star game is exciting just lost all credibility.

As if...I guess when the rest of the world starts caring about the all star game, you will too, and start watching? Does the rest of the world care about the NHL? I don't think soooo... If you tried watching something, other than what is popular Worldwide, you would see that the all star game, is how hockey is SUPPOSED to be played. No bodychecking, no fighting, just finesse, great passing, stickhandling, breakaways, dekes, LOTS of scoring, TONS OF FLOW....
Hahahahahahaha
I'm using "no fighting" arguments to bolster my case, but I guess you too see how weak their points are...
I guess games with no fighting and bodychecking ARE boring, you're right...
P.S have you had any luck finding a SINGLE fight where the fans didn't approve?

The argument about fans jumping up and down to see a fight is irrelevant. Are we talking about what hockey is supposed to be? Or are we talking about what gets fans excited? Pick one? Fans also like the shootouts. Is that how hockey should be decided?

And why are you discussing taking bodychecking out? Are you arguments for fighting so lame that you need to deflect the argument to bodychecking? No one but you has suggested taking out bodychecking.

And again, you are the only person I've ever heard of that enjoys the all-star game. I don't even think Don Cherry likes it.

After the early game on HNIC tonight, Wayne Gretzky stated that he thinks hockey will always have fighting.

After the early game on HNIC tonight, Wayne Gretzky stated that he thinks hockey will always have fighting.
Baseball will always have brawls because of pitchers beaning the hitters, football will always have guys tackling the QB with head shots....difference being those sports have EVOLVED over time to at least penalize those who do it with REAL penalties. The day WILL come where hockey will do the same.

Did Gretz say there will always be fighting? Or that he thinks there should always be fighting?

And what does he know, with his Phoenix Coyotes about to go out of business.

The argument about fans jumping up and down to see a fight is irrelevant.
Exactly. We should take things OUT of the game that fans like...

And why are you discussing taking bodychecking out? Are you arguments for fighting so lame that you need to deflect the argument to bodychecking? No one but you has suggested taking out bodychecking.

And again, you are the only person I've ever heard of that enjoys the all-star game. I don't even think Don Cherry likes it.

You said a good hockey game can actually go 60min without a fight. Body-checking is definitely necessary. But fighting isn't
Personally, I don't "love" the All Star game as much as I am letting on, but many people who love games with lots of "flow" and scoring do.
You say a game CAN go 60m without a fight, and still be interesting, and I was just pointing out that it can also go without body-checking, and still be exciting.
Some of my arguments for fighting may be lame, but what about, if YOU don't like something, don't watch it? Don't like fighting in hockey (anymore) ? Don't watch it?
Don't go to Red Lobster if you don't like Seafood...Don't change the menu because you think the fried, buttery, Seafood dishes are unhealthy, and could cause allergic reactions to a minority of people...
Is that a valid argument?
Probably not, I know
You, and others know what is best for me, and hockey...
Who cares what Gretzky says about fighting in the NHL? What has he ever contributed to the game.... I am much more interested in what people who have never played the game or may watch it occasionally think hockey should be.

So you agree I never said anything about taking body-checking out? But you did. Thanks.

And you love the shootout because fans like it, right? Thanks again.

And back on topic, Gretzky doesn't seem to say anything about fighting being part of the game. He just says it will always be there. Probably because there are no rules against it.

But he also wonders why these guys are fighting in senior hockey.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090117.MAKISIDE17/TPStory/Sports

So you agree I never said anything about taking body-checking out? But you did. Thanks.
You said that a game could be played without fighting, but not without bodychecking... I said that a game could be played without both, so why not get rid of bodychecking too? It injures far more players (Is Sidney Crosby back from his bodychecking injury yet?)
Someone in this thread posted Something else I just heard on he radio, for those "real" fans. Check out any game from back in the day, in like the 60's. There wasn't even bodychecking.
It seemed like the poster longed for the good ole days, when fighting and bodychecking weren't a part of the game, just stickchecking, which sounds kind of like a non contact league, which is all right by me, if its a mens leauge...
So I guess YOU didn't say you wanted to take out bodychecking, but someone else may have commented about a day when bodychecking wasn't a part of the game...

As another ban fighting advocate stated earlier, games are better when they are fast, and full of flow... The All Star game is full of scoring (fans love that right) , stickhandling (fans love it) and free from fighting (fans hate fights)
Why not just model the game after an exhibition match like the All Star game then?


And you love the shootout because fans like it, right? Thanks again.

I was against bringing in the shootout...

And back on topic, Gretzky doesn't seem to say anything about fighting being part of the game. He just says it will always be there. Probably because there are no rules against it.
Did you watch his interview last night?
I like your interpretation/spin on the interview, or maybe I am spinning it...
I strongly suggest actually watching a game
There ARE rules against fighting... Saying there are no rules for fighting, and that you don't watch the WJC, because nobody other than Canada cares about it proves you know very little about hockey
For the record, there IS a rule against fighting.
If you do it, you will be penalized, for 5 minutes...

You have blown more holes in my argument than a piece of swiss cheese...
You haven't attacked my final argument though....
Why do you insist on changing something, that the fans enjoy as part of the game?
Please don't reference the "poll" that was probably taken outside of the ballet or Figure Skating Competition.
Are you going after Red Lobster after you get rid of fighting?
C'mon people, stand up, first its fighting, and the next thing they want to do is take away your Shellfish...
You are either with us, or against us...:rolleyes:

You can have my shellfish, I don't eat it anyway.:p

The poll was taken right after Sanderson's death. You know what those questions are like, they word them to make sure they get the answers they want. It probably went something like this.. " Given that a recent minor league hockey player died after a fight on the ice from a head injury, do you believe that fighting should be eliminated from the game to prevent further needless deaths? ". :rolleyes:

If you don't like the shootout, I suggest you find something else to watch. See the random argument above about Red Lobster.

Also, as per this article here, only Canada cares about the World Juniors.

http://www.leaderpost.com/Life/Canada+world+junior+hockey+country/1149309/story.html

You can have my shellfish, I don't eat it anyway.:p

Really? I'm sorry you don't like the lovely taste of Lobster with some garlic butter... A shame...
I know there are others like you wgauci...Why don't you start a petition to ban Shellfish, because if you, and others like you don't like shellfish, why should anyone else be able to enjoy it. Who cares if you can eat at restaurants that don't serve shellfish (or watch hockey other than the NHL) lets ban all shellfish, NOW


If you don't like the shootout, I suggest you find something else to watch. See the random argument above about Red Lobster.

Also, as per this article here, only Canada cares about the World Juniors.

http://www.leaderpost.com/Life/Canada+world+junior+hockey+country/1149309/story.html

Asif, Newsflash... I'm Canadian...
I could care less if other countries care about the world juniors... I do.
Are you Canadian? How many countries need to like the juniors before you decide it is worth watching?
Is that how you decide what to watch?
Follow the herd, don't make any decisions on your own...Let others tell you what is good enough to watch....
What other countries care as much about the NHL as Canada?
Are you missing the point that I don't need my game to be liked in foreign lands for me to feel good inside? I don't care if "insert sport here" is favored to Ice Hockey, good for them. My country, likes hockey, NHL, AND the WJC...
It sounds like you will jump on the bandwagon, when enough foreign countries fall in love with our game, but I personally wouldn't want a fan who has nothing positive to say when these young men do our country proud, and all you can say is "yawn"

The difference between you, and I, is that I can watch the shootouts, even though I didn't want them, while you would rather ban fighting, instead of watching them, even though you have admitted to enjoying watching fighting....
Another member mentioned that figure skating is more popular than Ice Hockey, and I know it is more popular world wide, so why not grab yourself a Cosmo, and sit down and watch the Progressive Skating and Gymnastics Spectacular on NBC this afternoon (Its in HD)
I can almost guarantee there will be no fighting...:rolleyes:

I just want to let you know that there doesn't HAVE to be a fight in every game, but I don't want the possibility of a fight to be removed from the game...
Is that better?

And I don't NEED a brawl in baseball, but it is entertaining when it happens. I also appreciate that the penalty serves it purpose as a deterrent. Nowhere did I say I like figure skating. I'm actually watching football right now...there may be a punch or two thrown in the games today, but the penalty is that those guys get tossed from the game.

I'm glad you want the game you care about so much to remain stagnant, and not grow. I for one love the game, and would like the game to reach its potential. The fact is fights in the 80's were great because there were no Boogards, etc in the league - no guys running "hockey fight camps" in the summer. That - whether you want to admit it or not - is bad for the game. I know quite a few people who play hockey and love hockey, but will not put their kids in hockey because of the state of the game. That is a sad statement, but it's also very true...and I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows people like that. I will put my son in hockey though...before you go on some off topic rant about how I should watch figure skating, the ballet, or read Cosmo.

And I don't NEED a brawl in baseball, but it is entertaining when it happens. I also appreciate that the penalty serves it purpose as a deterrent. Nowhere did I say I like figure skating. I'm actually watching football right now...there may be a punch or two thrown in the games today, but the penalty is that those guys get tossed from the game.
Well maybe we should change the rules, like you are suggesting we do with hockey....
We keep coming back to the "but they can't fight in Baseball, football, etc.." argument, but you CAN fight in hockey, and it has been that way since the game started, THAT is the major difference...


I'm glad you want the game you care about so much to remain stagnant, and not grow. I for one love the game, and would like the game to reach its potential. The fact is fights in the 80's were great because there were no Boogards, etc in the league - no guys running "hockey fight camps" in the summer. That - whether you want to admit it or not - is bad for the game. I know quite a few people who play hockey and love hockey, but will not put their kids in hockey because of the state of the game. That is a sad statement, but it's also very true...and I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows people like that. I will put my son in hockey though...before you go on some off topic rant about how I should watch figure skating, the ballet, or read Cosmo.

Why do you non fighter advocates NEED to have the game grow more and more, to areas that don't care about hockey (Phoenix anyone, can you name a few other teams?)
It was drink a Cosmopolitan, not read Cosmo, but you can do that if you want, and I was not suggesting you to watch figure skating, but feel free to do so.
Yea, boxing teaches kids to be violent too....But these "violent" sports do teach other things too, don't judge a book by its cover.

How many times do I have to say it, the game is OK
We don't need to grow it anymore, in fact, there may be too many teams, which has watered down the talent level, and allowed players like Boogard to make it to the NHL. Do you think he would have enough skill to play if the talent level was higher?
I am not talking about kids hockey, fight camps, or whatever else you want to throw in the loop to try and distract from the real issue, banning fighting in the NHL, the pro league, not minor hockey.
If parents are that bad, that they think seeing a fight in a hockey game is going to scar their children, God help their kids.
I have read quite a few biographies of various EVIL men (Hitler, Manson, Bernardo, etc) and the one common factor is that they all loved watching hockey fights...
Give me a break
There is much more violent sports on primetime tv, and I guess watching TV shows that glorify violence has no effect, nor video games where murdering is rewarded...Yea, thats OK, but don't let them see a guy get into a fight in a hockey game with someone who has just checked someone from behind, head first into the boards...

Parent your child, and don't blame your failures on him/her seeing a fight in a hockey game. I think the hit from behind that Van Ryn took, was far more disgusting than ANY fight I have seen recently. He came close to being paralyzed (yea I know, only a little broken nose, lost some teeth, concussed)

I am not telling parents what they can and can't watch, or what to let their children watch, that is their responsibility, and likewise, I don't need to be told what I can and cannot watch.
Use your own judgment, if it is too much for them to see a hockey fight, don't let them watch

Really? I'm sorry you don't like the lovely taste of Lobster with some garlic butter... A shame...
I know there are others like you wgauci...Why don't you start a petition to ban Shellfish, because if you, and others like you don't like shellfish, why should anyone else be able to enjoy it. Who cares if you can eat at restaurants that don't serve shellfish (or watch hockey other than the NHL) lets ban all shellfish, NOW


I will fight for your right to eat shellfish! And honestly Red Lobster really isn't the place to be eating shellfish. What they call Lobster there really isn't in my opinion. Spent my summers in Cape Bretton as a kid and they know how to do lobster, that over cooked dried out stuff they sell at RL shouldn't be fed to a cat. Get the tuna, it's much better. :)

In my opinion, fighting is always going to be in hockey, it should be in and we don't need to continually change the game. If two consenting adults want to fight, let them and they can pay the penalty by sitting in the box for 5 minutes.