: Do you stretch 4:3 signals?


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

BrianJR
2008-11-29, 06:18 PM
I'm getting ready to buy my first HDTV, and I'm still uncertain whether to go plasma or LCD. One of the reasons I'm leaning towards LCD is that I don't like stretching 4:3 signal...it makes things look weird. However, is this something you get used to over time? I'd hate to buy an LCD and find I stretch the programming anyways!

I'd appreciate any comments. :)

Larry
2008-11-29, 06:28 PM
Stretching or not the 4:3 signal has nothing do with whether you get an LCD or Plasma. It is a choice you make - not tied to the technology. You can scratch that decision point off your checklist.

PPL4GOLF
2008-11-29, 07:26 PM
I totally disagree.

Plasmas have superior picture quality but you should be prepared to change some viewing habits that are bad for plasmas. You can watch anything you want but it has to be sensible and some sort of moderation should be observed.

For the OP, you probably will get used to the various stretch modes (search them on this site!); you can also quickly get used to a little less quality in LCDs as well. Afterall, they aren't that bad, just different, it is 'bad' if you have an LCD and plasma side by side:)

cooper83
2008-11-29, 07:38 PM
you should be prepared to change some viewing habits that are bad for plasmas.

Such as? I wouldn't include watching 4:3 as one that is bad for plasmas, unless it is done 100% of the time. I watch plenty of 4:3 content on mine with no problems, but it's often alternated with widescreen content.

dscott01
2008-11-29, 08:02 PM
Going LCD is a no brainier.

No worries of burn in. LCD's have less power consumption. The matte finish on the LCD screen has no reflections, plasmas have glass screen. Plasmas also run hot so you'll likely notice the temperature of the room increase (which could be a good thing)

Only advantage Plasmas have is that they will have a better black, but most LCD's sold today are very close to the quality of Plasma black reproduction.

With either LCD or Plasma you decide to buy, make sure you stay with a 1080p TV. Most LCD's are 1080p but Plasmas are 720p or 1080p.

PPL4GOLF
2008-11-29, 08:12 PM
That's what I mean...be sensible, like what you're doing is probably ok.

I always stretch 4:3 to fullscreen, I got used to in watching 2 years of analog cable (16:9 full screen) on an old 27" Viewsonic LCD without any fancy stretch modes way so my expectation is low. I actually really like the Horizon stretch mode on my LG plasma but my newer Samsung doesn't have it. OTOH, the Sammy has a wide-stretch for 4:3 contents from 720p/1080i DTV so I like to use it.

I can't stand watching 2.35:1 movies vertically stretched to fill the screen so I watch with black bars on top and bottom...But I switch my desktop icons and I autohide my taskbar and use a grey homogeneous desktop background with my HTPCs connected to plasmas.

I am a little more anal about it because the my LG is terrible in image retention, so I go all out and even bend over sometimes to avoid IR - which is essentially the same drills for avoiding burn-in.:p

PPL4GOLF
2008-11-29, 08:18 PM
Going LCD is a no brainier.

No worries of burn in. LCD's have less power consumption. The matte finish on the LCD screen has no reflections, plasmas have glass screen. Plasmas also run hot so you'll likely notice the temperature of the room increase (which could be a good thing)

Only advantage Plasmas have is that they will have a better black, but most LCD's sold today are very close to the quality of Plasma black reproduction.

With either LCD or Plasma you decide to buy, make sure you stay with a 1080p TV. Most LCD's are 1080p but Plasmas are 720p or 1080p.
My 3-yr old 27" Viewsonic LCD is showing image persistency (image retention) and it's so ugly and it's not even funny - red becomes green, etc. The panel is really good with rendering HD content otherwise.

It goes away wthin 15-30 minutes but I want to point out it is not immune.

cooper83
2008-11-29, 08:28 PM
dscott01, your entire post is full of errors and misconceptions, but the one that stood out...

Plasmas also run hot so you'll likely notice the temperature of the room increase

...just made me laugh. First time I've ever heard of that. Wish mine would do that, as my suite is freezing!! My plasma has been on for nearly 2 hours and it's not even warm to the touch.

Larry
2008-11-29, 08:44 PM
Size for size LCD is more expensive than Plasma. I never liked the image on an LCD. Plasma are much more pleasing to the eye. Image retention is no longer a real issue as they have techniques to address this and with more and more HD content it is really becoming a non-issue.

Decide what you want but don't worry about 4:3 and stretching. Look at other factors like cost, power consumption, picture quality, light in the room etc.

ohmagic
2008-11-29, 08:53 PM
Going LCD is a no brainier.

No worries of burn in. LCD's have less power consumption. The matte finish on the LCD screen has no reflections, plasmas have glass screen. Plasmas also run hot so you'll likely notice the temperature of the room increase (which could be a good thing)

Only advantage Plasmas have is that they will have a better black, but most LCD's sold today are very close to the quality of Plasma black reproduction.

With either LCD or Plasma you decide to buy, make sure you stay with a 1080p TV. Most LCD's are 1080p but Plasmas are 720p or 1080p.

Your post is full of miss-leading information.

Plasmas have superior black levels.
LCDs produce pretty bad blacks that look grey in dark rooms. This is due to that dreaded backlight that is always on.

Plasmas are excellent for gaming.
I pay 3-6 hours straight on my 50" Samsung plasma after a 200 hour break-in period and I have SLIGHT image retention that usually goes away within 20 minutes.

Plasmas have a fast response rate and almost no image blur.
My LCD is horrible for watching sports and for fast paced motion. That is why I bought a plasma.

Plasmas display SD (Standard Def) a lot better than LCD's.
LCD's suck at upscaling content. SD looks a lot better on my 50" plasma than it does on my 32" LCD.

Plasmas don't produce as much heat as LCDs.
My plasma runs at 32C, my LCD runs at 77C... a HUGE difference!
I can touch my plasma with my hand and its fine. I cannot touch my LCD after being on for more than 45 mins.
I bet if I cracked an egg over my LCD, we wouldn't need a frying pan!

So.. GET A PLASMA!
You'll be glad you did. As long as you do proper break-in period. You will NEVER get burn in, and you will get minor IR (Image retention).

I used to be a LCD fan till I realized how much better Plasams are. I belive I am not biased as I have experienced both technologies and I strongly prefer one over the other.

Hope this helps.

dscott01
2008-11-30, 01:03 AM
dscott01, your entire post is full of errors and misconceptions, but the one that stood out...



...just made me laugh. First time I've ever heard of that. Wish mine would do that, as my suite is freezing!! My plasma has been on for nearly 2 hours and it's not even warm to the touch.
As weird as it sounds, It is true with the Plasma heating up the room. My buddy just bought a Samsung 50" Plasma and his living room is definitely warmer. The Plasma is very warm to the touch on back.

Ohmagic, you should unplug your LCD immediately and have it looked at. If its reaching 77C there is something wrong with your LCD. 77C is a fire hazard.

BrianJR do some research and you'll find all the information you need to make a choice on what type of display will work best for you.

jumpy27
2008-11-30, 06:18 AM
Most plasmas do get hotter than LCD's. I know because I repair them for a living. The newer plasmas also have anti-glare screens on some of their models. My professional opinion is that both LCD and Plasma are very close in picture quality. It all comes down to which TV you think looks better, or which one has a better remote, or which brand you like etc.

Tom.F.1
2008-11-30, 09:54 AM
Never stretch!! I hate distortion. Shouldn't be allowed.

ohmagic, as you are trying to clear up mis-information, you're passing on more.
LCD's have come a long way on black level. Ecery manufaturer worth mentioning has some sort of dynamic back lite so no, its not always on. They all have different qutesy names for thier systems but the effects are the same, backlight is severly reduced with low level.

ginseng
2008-11-30, 10:29 AM
We do not stretch. We watch everything in its native aspect ratio. We bought a 56" screen set so that the "native" mode will always look big. :o

meatbird
2008-11-30, 12:04 PM
I use stretch to watch women facing sideways.

jwt873
2008-11-30, 12:30 PM
When you stretch a 4:3 picture to fit a wide screen, everyone gets fatter..

I don't know how many receivers do this, but Bell satellite receivers allow you to increase the height of the image after you stretch it. This causes a small portion of the top and bottom of the image to be cut off, but there is absolutely no distortion.

In most cases losing a little bit of the picture is acceptable. I don't even notice it. The only time this can be a problem is if you're watching something where there is something important right at the top or bottom of the picture. Something like a news channel that has headlines scrolling across the bottom of the screen. In this case, the text gets cut off and you can't read it.

57
2008-11-30, 01:12 PM
but there is absolutely no distortion.If you're talking about the non-linear stretch like Partial zoom on the BTV STBs, then I believe there is some distortion because the outsides of the screen are stretched more than the middle. You can see this if you watch a programme like CP24 (channel 503?). The boxes at the top right become a different width as you approach the edge of the screen. (In Partial Zoom, I believe the box near the edge of the screen is larger than the box farther from the edge if you measure it). In "normal", they are the same size.

Many TVs have a mode with this non-linear stretch, with or without some zooming... Some TVs (most Samsungs) do not have this feature, or the feature is not applicable to HD signals.

Of course a full zoom will create no distortion, however, the picture quality is reduced dramatically and there is 33% of the information missing from the top/bottom of the screen which is unacceptable to most people.

The various stretch modes are discussed in the following thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76074

BrianJR
2008-11-30, 04:03 PM
Thanks all for your comments. I didn't mean for this to become a plasma vs. LCD thread, but I think I've got the information I needed.

ishoong
2008-12-02, 02:57 PM
It all depends on what stretch mode implement on your TV. Some TV have bad stretch mode such as Sony & Samsung and some has excellent stretch mode such as Pioneer & Toshiba. For me I always watch on stetch mode on my Pioneer & Toshiba but I can't live with it on a Samsung & Sony. Also I find the Toshiba did upscale the SD signal quite good but Pioneer just have unbeatable color pop effect even the Pioneer has more signal noise & some black crush on SD signal (I am going to put on a better splitter to see if that going to improve it). However the Toshiba can't touch(actually, no TV able to) the Pioneer Plasma on HD content (HD channel or blu-ray)

Alan Toronto
2008-12-02, 03:02 PM
Some TV have bad stretch mode such as Sony & Samsung "Bad" is a subjective term in this case. You call it "bad" simply because you don't like it.

I have a Samsung TV and I like its stretch modes because they preserve the aspect ratio. IOW, they stretch vertical and horizontal by an equal percentage. I much prefer this over the non-linear modes which stretch horizontal a different percentage than vertical, causing distortion of the picture. People end up looking stretched tall and thin or squished short and fat.

So, don't use the term "bad" which could suggest that the feature doesn't work properly or that it has undesireable results. Those of us who don't like our picture distorted are quite happy with Samsung's stretch modes.