I've been doing a lot of reading here the last few nights.

I live about 10 miles north of Milton in Acton.

I bought a channelmaster 4228 and have been playing around with it . I can get a bunch of the buffalo channels when pointing in that direction but no toronto channels.
When I point towards the cn tower I get a bunch of T.O. channels but no buffalo.

I have since learned that the 4221 gets a wider range than the 4228, but the 4228 goes farther.

I was thinking of trying a 4221, but if I still can't pick up both places can I combine the two of them.

Can i point the 4228 towards buffalo and the 4221 towards toronto?

I have the same situation as you where I have a 4221 for Vancouver and stacked 4228s for Seattle. I've had no luck combining the two so I'm using an A/B switch; this appears to be the best method, unfortunately.

You can point the 4228 towards buffalo and the 4221 towards toronto, but it may not help with Toronto's pitiful signals anyway. There are some threads in this forum that deal with combining/ganging/stacking antennas.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=675713&postcount=16

Great work, Peano, that's good information for everyone. We'll continue this in the ON - Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge, Bruce Peninsula (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=94075) thread.

Is there any improvement in gain (.5, 1.0) when stacking different UHF antennas?

Such as stacking a 4228HD and a 4221HD, or would the 4228HD overpower the 4221HD and render it redundant?

Is there any improvement in gain (.5, 1.0) when stacking different UHF antennas?

Such as stacking a 4228HD and a 4221HD, or would the 4228HD overpower the 4221HD and render it redundant?
IMO, you'd be better off stacking 2 identical antennas. Trying to get 2 different antennas exactly in phase is difficult.
If you have the ability to accuratly measure the results, it would be an interesting experiment.

Also their different beam patterns means that their lobes (peaks and nulls) will overlap, usually for the worse. Stacking different types of antenna is just asking for headaches. :rolleyes:

I have an existing CM4228 and would like to add a second antenna to eliminate the need to use my rotor. As it is almost impossible to get the old CM4228 anymore, should I get the CM4228HD or the DB8? From the Antenna Chart v5.1, the DB8 is superior to the CM4228HD, but will it introduce more compatibility problems when merged with the old CM4228?

I live west of Milton and by rotating the CM4228 can get just about everything from Buffalo and Toronto (I live on top of a hill).

I drive five TV's, and one ATI TV Wonder 650 on my computer, with the CM4228 antenna along with a Permacolor pre-amp. After adding the second antenna I may have to add an amplified distribution box with possibly an attenuator.

Any suggestions?

GeoffA, you would definitely want a second original CM4228 so that you avoid the problems with unidentical antennas. The other option is to swap your original CM4228 out for 2 of the new CM4221HDs or CM4228HDs, and I'd say you'd have no problem at all selling an original CM4228 here at our site. ;)

My troubles in ganging antennas for separate TVs:

I have two 4221HDs, plus one 4228HD.

Originally I had all three antennas off the side of my two storey house, two antennas above the eave (4228HD top antenna amped with 7778, and just below a 4221HD). Below the eave was the second 4221HD. Top antenna is about 25 feet above ground.

The top antenna (4228HD) worked well with a rotor for one TV- but I didn’t like using the rotor all the time.

The two 4221HDs were ganged and were for a second TV. These antennas worked well, but didn’t get the difficult BUF stations- WUTV (14.1) and ION (23.1); although usually got WNYO (49.1).

Ideally, I want to get all TO/BUF stations to both TVs with minimal use of a rotor.

Experiment 1: I joined the 2 coax leads of the 4228HD to the ganged 4221HDs’ coax. This was pretty good, but still didn’t get CFTO (40.1) or Global (41.1 or is it 60.1), and ION was only good at night; WUTV and WNYO were great.

Experiment 2- current set-up: Got a 30 foot tower (10 foot mast, top antenna about 35 feet), mounted the 4228HD with pre-amp (7778) aimed for BUF, and one 4221HD mounted below on the side of the tower- about 2 to 3 feet below- aimed for TO. The two antennas have separate cables that are joined inside the house.
Several TO digital stations do not come in and CJXT (15.1) which is 2.5 miles away drops out; WNYO and ION do not come in, but WUTV is very strong. Furthermore the analog TO stations are terrible. When I disconnected the BUF antenna, the TO stations were much better.

Need help in trouble-shooting.

Do the antennas need to be separated more?

Should I be using only identical antennas- 4221HDs?

Should I raise the top antenna more, raise the mast, add another 10 feet of tower?

Should I amp the lower antenna (TO) so both antennas are amped?

Should I get rid of the pre-amp on the top antenna?

Should the two antennas be joined with coax cable as close as possible, outside on the tower instead in the house?

The FAQ thread says that 300 ohm twin lead should be used to gang antennas- I’m using RG6- maybe this is the main problem?

Ideas greatly appreciated.

G

So many variables, so little time... :D Do you have (or have access to) a signal analyzer that you can take up there with you so that you're not having to go up and down to the antennas? To me it seems that you are getting peaks and nulls colliding with each other in the reception patterns, so you might end up having to do some counter-intuitive aiming on one, two, or all of the antennas.The FAQ thread says that 300 ohm twin lead should be used to gang antennas- I’m using RG6- maybe this is the main problem?Twinlead is just one of the options but there are consequences in lowering the over all impedence of the ganged antennas so you would have to test, test, test. If you stay with coax a reversed splitter with 3 in/1 out or any other combo of splitters to join 3 antennas would unfortunately have a high loss so that's a problem too.

Some people (myself, mlord, others) have gotten so fed up with multiple antennas affecting each other that they've built a PC-based PVR and run each antenna into its own tuner device to get rid of the combining problems once and for all. Just a thought for you if you're computer handy.

Fed-up is not the word. Do you have the link for the PC tuner device?

Goforit,

Here is my experience on two CM4221HDs, no pre-amp is required for my location...

My setup is about 30' from the ground.

1. If mounted on the same mast (from very close and to 2' distance), I got mixed results, losing some channels and some gain on others if ganged.

2. No ganged. On separate mast, about 2.5' distance apart (one behind the other), no matter how I adjust the antennas, I don't get good reception on the one behind.

3. Move the one antenna and mast to another location, 10' away from the other one. Both antenna provide very good receptions.

I think for you your location, just aim one antenna to CN tower and the other one to Buffalo location, use an AB switch is the best (just try my option 3). I really doubt that you need a pre-amp for your antennas, since I am able to receive Buffalo channels without one from my location.

By the way, my second antenna and setup is for experiment purpose only. I only need one CM4221 for all Toronto/Hamilton/Buffalo channels.

Do you have the link for the PC tuner device?Some people (myself, mlord, others) have gotten so fed up with multiple antennas affecting each other that they've built a PC-based PVR and run each antenna into its own tuner device to get rid of the combining problems once and for all. Just a thought for you if you're computer handy.You want the HTPC Forum (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31) and look for these great threads:TV Tuner Cards For HTPC Discussion (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42094)

USB2.0 Digital TV Tuners (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=49381)
My own personal favourite home brew PVR software is MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) on Linux, which is what mlord and others run too. Once you get it installed you really don't need to know Linux much if that is a bother. For hardware I run 2 x pcHDTV PCI ATSC tuner cards, 2 x Hauppauge PCI NTSC cards, 2 x Hauppauge 950Q USB2.0 tuner devices.

Some members of this site use Windows-based software like SageTV on XP, but if you run Windows Media Center it unfortunately has a list of problems with Canadian OTA despite the heroic efforts of site members like pnear and Michael DeAbreu. If you are partial to Windows Media Center or the new Windows 7 you need to read up on their advice thoroughly.

Let's get back to the topic of combining antennas now. :)

I have attached two pictures of my antenna set-ups. The first one is the current set-up, but I am not happy with it- I don't get the channels that I got in my previous set up (second image).

The two antenna combo: 35 feet up, pre-amp on the top antenna, 7778- and 4228HD. bottom antenna no pre-amp. Both have separate lines and are joined in the house.

Three antenna set up: 15 to 25 feet up, top antenna- 4228HD pre-amped. 2 bottom antennas have no pre-amp. Two bottom antennas are joined near the eave/outside. 2 lines (4228HD and 4221HD combo) are joined in the house. Top antenna is peaked for WUTV, so is the middle antenna (higher up 4221HD).

Of these two set-ups, the three combo antennas performs much better than the higher up two antenna combo.

What is wrong with the 2 antenna set-up? It's higher than the other set-up.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=237&pictureid=1072

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=237&pictureid=1071

Hi Go,
My guess is your problem is phasing. 2 Identical antennas facing the same direction are easy to get in phase. Then amp if you have a long run.
Amping only one antenna, then combining, makes the non amped antenna a transmit, not recieve. All you do is waste half the power recieved on the amped one.
If I were you, I'd give the 4221's away, or trade for another 4228 and stack them both on the rotor.
I have two 4228's pointed at buffalo and another pointed at toronto/hamilton, all combined equally before the amp. Works well.

Hi Tom

Just wondering Tom,what you used for a combiner as I'm thinking of something similar for my setup?

Thanks:

Bob

As Tom said adding a preamp to just one antenna won't give good results. Used a good eagle aspen splitter that can pass dc to both ports in reverse to combine and another to split the signal and diplex. Cust had two sat and wanted ota. No signal real signal loss.

Just squeezed in 2 installs today, as I finished the 2nd install and was packing up around 4:50pm it just started to spinkle rain. :D

One customer is around St John Side Road and just west of Yonge.

Elevation was good, on gps was close to 850 feet. :o

Forgot my meter as i was in a rush, so I used my trusty compass, did not need a repoint.

Customer got all station beaming in strong even ion channels. MyTv was strong, split the signal and used no preamp. Nbc and Fox was not a problem.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3398/3637660220_58c89c45f3_o.jpg

So if I was to start over what should the set-up be?

Two 4221HDs stacked and peaked for WUTV (east direction) and mounted on top- joined with a coupler on the tower and one single coax out, and into house. (no -preamp)

One 4228HD below pointed north (CN tower), single coax into house- no preamp.

Two coax lines are joined in house.

How's that?

(I'm trying not to buys more antennas.)

I would stack both the 4221 HD and aim for Fox and Nbc combine them using a good splitter in reverse. Make sure the splitter can pass dc.

Use the 4228 HD for the cn tower and then combine the 4228 and 4221 using another splitter(that can pass dc) in reverse(as combiner).

Then connect it to the preamp. This was everything gets boosted.

Make sure that the cable length are the same when you combine. Peak each set separately and then when you combine the 4228 with the 4221 you may have to close the anle with one of the antenna is signal strength drops on a channel too much.

Did you do the mod on the 4228 HD?

I just realised that you have a rotor why do you need multiple antenna's. If your 4228 HD is not modded do it and use it with the rotor.

Good luck.