so what I have read on this topic, I should get another 4228?
or should I just do that mod?

robman50, what are you using to combine the antennas? Are the antennas pointed 90 degrees apart?

EagleStar Siginal Mixer. (2 in, 1 out)
The old antenna is North-East, and the new one South-East.
My plan is to hopefully get all the CN Tower and the Grand Island feeds.

The wire on the old antenna is RG-56 and it is really breaking down and it is to high and not safe to climb up and replace it with RG-6.
Could there be to much noise in the line that is causing all this trouble?

Also I have 2 amp's on the line. A 7777 mounted on the mast and a 2 output distro amp which is mounted in the basement. I think the distance between the two is 75 feet.

That old wire (I assume is RG-59 not 56) could be causing problems if it is breaking down. I can understand your nervousness replacing it though. :)

Also, you may be over-amplifying. A CM-7777 should provide enough amplification for most applications. Supplementing with a distribution amp is typically only needed when splitting more than 8 ways.

As discussed earlier, ganging two antennas (pointing in different directions) can create two problems:

If both antennas can receive the same signal, they can generate phase interference. Since your antennas ase about 90 degrees appart I would assume the signals are the same and thus this isn't a problem for you.
A broadband signal combiner will cause back reflections and thus they tend to result in about 3.5 to 4 dB of signal loss.

Actually it is RG-56. I cut off a piece that came in to the house and went to Beldin to search up the ID, it's been up there for 20-something years.

RG-56 is 50ohm not 75ohm cable so it could definitely be causing problems! It is not meant for TV antennas.

I just disconnected the distro amp and I am getting more Canadian channels (a huge improvement on analog, some on digital)
But I am unable to get the Buffalo stations.
Any ideas?

Would it be smart to just retire that old yagi and the rg-56? and just get another 8 bay and join the 2 4228hd's with all RG-6?

how do you combine the 2 antenna's with out that 4 dB signal loss?

I think I sloved my own problem by reading something from stampeder.'At this point, regardless of which option we choose, we might face a very basic electronic problem. We'll need to make sure that the two antennas are in phase so that their signals complement eachother instead of cancelling eachother out.'http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=675713&postcount=16

This makes perfect sense, my north antenna is cancelling the other one out.
Now I have to get them 'in phase' some how.

If it's truly "RG56", replace it as it's definitely the wrong stuff.

I decided to retire that old antenna and just get all new stuff if I want to join the antenna's.

Don't junk that old antenna! :eek: If you could please take some photos and post them in the following thread we'd love to have a look at it: Antique, Used, and/or Mystery Antennas! (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107706) :)

If it is a typical older antenna with 300Ω impedence it is possible that it was using a 6:1 balun to give 50Ω unbalanced signal over 50Ω RG56, but this would only have been useful on some amateur radio gear and not common TV or FM Radio tuners. If not that, it was probably just a case of the wrong type of coax cable being installed.

Would it be smart to just retire that old yagi and the rg-56? and just get another 8 bay and join the 2 4228hd's with all RG-6?

You should definitely retire the RG-56! As for the "old yagi" that all depends on the make/model/condition of the antenna. You might want to post a picture of it in the Antique, Used, and/or Mystery Antennas! (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=107706) thread and see what people there think of it.

how do you combine the 2 antenna's with out that 4 dB signal loss?

In your case it is likely not practical to do so. The way you would prevent the reflections is by filtering out the undesired channel(s) before the combiner. This is easy to do if the antennas cover different bands (combining a VHF and UHF antenna for example) or if you only want one channel from one of the antennas and the other antenna isn't receiving either of the adjacent channels (one channel above or below).

You are likely wanting multiple channels from each antenna and some of the channels may be adjacent so the cost of all those filters would be prohibitively expensive.

The other way around this problem is to not combine the signals and use an A/B switch instead. If you are using a HTPC, you can program it to throw the switch automatically (or just use a separate tuner cards) to make it seamless for both viewers and recording.

This makes perfect sense, my north antenna is cancelling the other one out.
Now I have to get them 'in phase' some how.

This is only true if the antennas are pointing in the same direction. It is almost impossible to get antennas pointed in different directions "in-phase" since the active elements are in different vertical plains so they receive the signals at different times. You can't compensate for this with cable lengths as the the phase difference varies depending on the direction the signal comes from.

Since phase interference only occurs when both antennas receive the same signal, the best solution is to prevent that from happening by using highly directional antennas (Yagi's are best for this).

This question may already have been anserwed but iv,e been thinking of mounting 2 DB4,s on a single mast with one pointed to Buffalo and the other to Toronto mounted to my on my rooftop.I keep reading about a 25 inch separation between the 2 antennas.Sorry for the silly question but does mean the distance between the the very bottom of the top antenna to the very top of the bottom antenna should be separated by 25 inches.I hope this question makes sense to everyone out there.Thanks

yep for the purposes of vertical separation, always referenced from tip to tip.

doubledot101, how are you planning on connecting your two DB4s? If you are planning on combining them together, DB4s are probably a bad choice. They have a wide beam width and you are almost guaranteed phase interference. I would highly recommended using much more directional antennas instead. If you are using an A/B switch, this won't be a problem however.

Roger1818 I was going to use a combiner or reverse splitter to connect both antennas.

yep for the purposes of vertical separation, always referenced from tip to tip.
tip of the bottom part of bottom part of the dipole? or of the reflector?

Don't junk that old antenna! :eek:Oh I am not going to scrap it. I am just going to leave it up there but I am not going to connect that old wire. That old antenna was put up in 1985. I wasn't even around then. lol :) I don't know what the standards where back then.