: ON - Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge, Bruce Peninsula
2009-08-24, 10:54 AM
I made a coat hanger antenna and put in my attic and it improved my reception for channel 10, 'A' Channel out of London, a little. It was snowy but the audio was very strong. Does anyone have their best guess what would happen if I buy a proper antenna and install it on my roof with a pre-amp. I'm hoping that because the signal is at least reaching this far that with the right equipment I will be laughing.
One thing I also noticed was that my reception for CityTV (Ch. 13) was better on the main floor than it was in the attic. One difference I can think of is the cable length, which right now I have little control over. Any thoughts.
P.S. I love this forum. I first heard about it from a newspaper article in the Kitchener-Waterloo Record. :D
2009-08-24, 11:42 AM
If I install a HD Antenna on my roof, UHF, that won't help me get analog stations in or not? I know that I shouldn't want analog since everything is going to digital in 2011, but I'm more focused on the now as well as post 2011. I want both, is there a product that does that. I'm such a rookie.
2009-08-24, 02:20 PM
Coleman, can you provide us with your TVFool output (see Post #10 in the OTA FAQ for instructions) so that we can match some antennas to your situation? Also make sure to check the list of stations against the IC database to make sure that the latest info is available.
What is your nearest major street corner in Kitchener?
2009-08-24, 02:50 PM
With my CM4228, I pick up both digital and analog channels. I pick up analog channels from Toronto, Hamilton and Kitchener. Mostly I watch digital, though since there is usually
a better quality channel available on digital with the same program.
2009-08-25, 11:10 AM
I appreciate people taking a look at my TVFool results.
The closest major intersection near where I live would be Highland Road and Ira Needles.
Speaking with my wife this morning about this, she is worried that we could go to all this trouble and money and get nothing in return, signal wise. I understand that I live in a 'deep fringe' area and the CM-3671 has been recommended.
2009-08-28, 11:30 PM
@Coleman: You WILL receive many channels even with a rooftop setup in Kitchener. You're already getting channel 10 (London CFPL) somewhat with a coat hanger. So you can reassure the wife that it won't be all for naught. There are many analog stations broadcasting within reception range of Kitchener in UHF. However, several analog stations are VHF in the area.
In Kitchener, a UHF antenna will suffice for now if you're simply interested in digital channels. This will change after August 2011, when several stations within the reception area will revert to VHF digital:
- CFPL London 10
- CHCH Hamilton 11
- CFTO Toronto 9
- CKCO Kitchener 12
- CIII Paris (Global) 6
You are close enough to CKCO and CIII to successfully pick up these stations even with most UHF antennas. With CKCO, you're so close that you won't likely require more than rabbit ears.
If you wish to receive analog VHF stations now, and digital ones after August 2011, you will need to purchase a combination VHF/UHF antenna, or two separate antennas (one VHF, the other UHF) and combine them either through a pre-amp (such as the CM7777), or by using a combiner made for such a purpose.
2009-09-06, 10:02 PM
Hello folks -- After reading all of the advice on this site and researching what was out there, I finally have my set up all finished here in Guelph. I'm in the northwest part of town -- out near the Linamar and McNeil plants. Thankfully, we are on a bit of a hill here.
On the roof, I have a new CM4228 (I didn't modify it), with a CM7777 preamp and a rotor. We used RG6 cable for the whole set-up.
I pick up everything pretty solidly from the CN Tower except SunTV. Global is intermittent; at night when the humidity is down, it does come in once in a while. Likewise, Omni-2 can be touchy. Perhaps with the modification to the 4228 that is discussed elsewhere, I would pick up those channels better, as they are in the 60s where the new 4228 suffers compared to the original.
Off the Grand Island tower, I pick up the CW no problem (1000 kW transmission!) and PBS 17-1, and 17-3. I don't get Fox, but apparently that transmitter is directional and pointing away from us here.
Out of the Buffalo area, I pick up 2-1to3 (NBC, universal sports, and retroTV), 4-1 (CBS), 7-1 (ABC) and the TCT stations (26-1, 26-2). I also get 49-1 (MyTV), but that is a weak signal.
Out of Hamilton I get CHCH 11-1 (they seem to have sorted it out now and it is 11-1 instead of 18-1), CTS 36-1 and SunTV 15-1. Since I get the SunTV repeat from Hamilton, I don't worry about not getting it off the CN Tower.
An advantage to my position is that Buffalo, Grand Island, and Hamilton are all in a straight line from Guelph. As a result, I really only need two rotor positions: one for the CN Tower and the other for everything else. And on a clear, cool night, I can pick everything up in one position!
The only analog stations that I keep are TVOntario (19), Global (41), and Omni-2. I have removed CKCO from Kitchener, simply because the signal strength is so high with the preamp that I don't want to blow my tuner. If CKCO ever transmits in digital, then I think I would get an attenuator.
I don't think there are any other digital channels that I can possibly get here. I think Rochester is too far away and there's not much else straight south and across Lake Erie.
We are looking forward to the Olympics next February! My understanding is that CTV will broadcast it, and that the Omni channels will carry some events too.
2009-09-07, 01:48 PM
dinglehopper I think you can safely add CKCO back since its analouge and I have had it on here in Cambridge and never blew my tuner from the signal.
2009-09-08, 09:10 PM
CKCO doesn't bother my reception (or my tuner) whatsoever here in Kitchener. The transmitter is less than 8km away from my location. For example, FOX Buffalo (RF 14, adjacent to CKCO RF 13) doesn't seem impacted whatsoever. Of course I don't bother watching CKCO, as it's analog and full of multipath issues due to it's close proximity. I simply watch CTV programming on digital 40 out of Toronto (virtual 9.1 CFTO).
Though I suppose it's fortunate that when tuning to Buffalo, CKCO is near the backside of my XG91.
If you're having problems or concerns locally (even in Guelph) with CKCO, I would recommend an antenna with a narrow beam such as the XG-91. Peano in Guelph has had good success with his...
Rochester is indeed too far for 1 or 2 edge reception. However, during good tropo nights, I have no issues grabbing Rochester or Watertown (see the Tropo thread).
2009-09-08, 09:30 PM
(RF 14, adjacent to CKCO RF 13) doesn't seem impacted whatsoever.
13 and 14 are not adjacent. They are over 400 MHz apart.
2009-09-08, 09:39 PM
They're not over 400MHz apart.
Channel 13 starts at 213MHz, and channel 14 starts at 473MHz.
Nonetheless, it is possible to get harmonics from a strong close station impacting stations over 200MHz apart. Thus the need for "white space". This is why the issue of White Space use has been so controversial.
2009-09-08, 11:07 PM
Just installed a 91XG in the attic tonight, roughly aimed towards TO. Couldn't fit the bottom reflector on due to space limitations.
Direct line from the 91XG -> CM7777 -> TV. Pickup some new channels, I suspect the results I'm seeing are due to tropo, but I can't complain:
8.1 (0) <--- NEW but no picture
16.7 (0) <--- NEW but audio only
16.9 (0) <--- NEW but no picture
16.10 (0) <--- NEW but no picture
29.1 (5) <--- first time I've seen a picture before on this channel
29.2 (5) <--- same
51.1 (32) <--- NEW good signal
51.2 (32) <--- NEW good signal
51.3 (32) <--- NEW good signal
51.4 (32) <--- NEW good signal
54.1 (27) <--- NEW good signal
54.2 (27) <--- NEW good signal
54.3 (27) <--- NEW good signal
64.1 (10) <--- NEW
2009-09-09, 12:03 AM
@ruffashell: The tropo is strong tonight...
You're picking up Rochester stations and some of the harder-to-pull Buffalo stations (they're booming in strong for me tonight).
2009-09-09, 11:12 AM
I'm trying to help out my relatives with their TV reception. Currently they have an old VHF antenna on a tower (about 30 ft high). I have included the TVfool stats for their house. Thanks for any help you can provide me as I'm flying blind here.
Unfortunatley they are in the lowest area. the postal code is N0B 2B0. http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=N0B+2B0&sll=43.535358,-80.399323&sspn=0.179202,0.423317&ie=UTF8&z=16
2009-09-09, 01:47 PM
@rutski: If you're trying for digital stations, you'll need a UHF antenna as well. I would keep the VHF (if it's in good condition), and use a combiner or a pre-amp like the CM7777 to combine the two antennas into one feed.
2009-09-11, 10:16 AM
I've been meaning to get started on this for the last 2 months, but something always was more important to do... now I have to do something before winter gets here... at the very least, I need CBC-HD (for hockey) and CTV-HD for the Olympics (orders from my wife ;) )
The setup I would like to have is one antenna pointing to Toronto and another antenna pointing to Buffalo. Combine both signals and run it to a couple of TVs in my house. I rather avoid a rotor if possible. I know I'll need a preamp in there too.
My initial thinking was to use 2 CM 4228 HD antennas. From reading this thread, I've noticed some are using the 91XG with good success. So I'm debating which antennas I should go with. Is there a big advantage one over the other - or will my results be more or less the same? I know the CM 4228 HD will allow me to pickup the VHF-hi channels too... not sure if that is possible with the 91XG or if that will require a separate VHF antenna. (planning ahead for post digital transition in 2011)
Oh, and I'm located in Cambridge (close to Avenue and Franklin - in North Galt). I'm in a bungalow, with a dozen or so big trees close behind in the way of both Toronto and Buffalo.
I have a feeling I will need to install a free standing tower (40') past those trees. But I'll see what I can pickup with the antennas around the height of my roof (about 20') beforehand - maybe I'll get lucky. Cause if I need a tower, then I have to contract all this work out - no way am I installing a tower myself nor climbing up a 40' tower (climbing up 4' makes me nervous enough :eek: :p )
2009-09-11, 01:05 PM
You're correct about VHF-HI - you stand a good chance of getting a lot of them with the CM4228HDs but not with the 91XG. Are your big trees coniferous, or will they lose their leaves over the winter? Hopefully they're deciduous!
2009-09-11, 01:18 PM
Thanks Stampeder... The trees will lose their leaves in the winter.
2009-09-11, 01:29 PM
Okay good, the UHF signals will do better when the leaves are gone. My advice is to go with the 2 modified CM4228HDs unless you want to pair a 91XG with a good VHF antenna. Agreed that a tower would be a real benefit from your location.
2009-09-11, 08:16 PM
@acadien: I own an 91XG, and I love it.
With Buffalo, there are several transmission sites. The 91XG is so directional, that you actually (at times) need to rotate to optimize reception from specific Buffalo stations over others.
For example, WGRZ is further south than WIVB--and when conditions are poor, I need to adjust for perfect reception.
This need to precisely fine tune direction is not necessary with the CM4228HD, which I've also owned.
Of course, this isn't an issue if you have a rotor (as I do), but something to keep in mind if you're looking to avoid buying rotor equipment.
Check out my post in the Delhi equipment thread regarding the old stock promotion. I managed to snag a high gain VHF antenna for a good price at Neutron.