: Receiver deactivation question
2008-10-06, 02:04 AM
There's no such thing as a dumb question, right? Ok then...
When you call SC and ask them to deactivate a receiver, does the receiver have to be connected to the datastream at that time?
2008-10-06, 02:49 AM
nope, just make sure you have access to the receiver , they will ask for information off the reciever
2008-10-06, 02:56 AM
On two occasions, a year apart, they told me a receiver was deactivated but it wasn't.
I'd prefer to avoid this the third time. Needless to say, they bill you.
2008-10-06, 09:19 AM
If you have 2-6 receivers and are paying the multi-receiver charge then what does it matter? If it is your only receiver, then you are canceling service, right? I would imagine that they would remove the receiver from your account if you tell them that you intend to sell it.
I have 6 active receivers and a seventh that remains in a closet that I asked them to deactivate to keep at the maximum six. If I plugged the 7th back in and found it still working, it hasn't cost me anything, right? But it is also my understanding that after being unplugged for a month, a receiver need to be hit by *C in order to work again.
2008-10-06, 10:52 AM
If you have 2-6 receivers and are paying the multi-receiver charge then what does it matter?If you have 2 receivers and are deactivating one, the multi receiver charge should cease.
What has happened to me is the second receiver was activated during the troubleshooting process to see if the problem occurred with more than one receiver. It was supposed to be deactivated at the conclusion of the process, but I was subsequently charged for multiple receivers. Each time the techie told me the box was deactivated, but it wasn't. That is why I wondered if it needs to be in the stream when they deactivate it.
2008-10-06, 12:21 PM
If you know what receiver it is (they will), you don't even need access to it.
It will get removed from your account, but will not receive the de-activate signal if disconnected form power and/or satellite signal, and may still operate for a while if you try later, until it doesn't get any more key updates.
2008-10-06, 01:30 PM
It will get removed from your account, but will not receive the de-activate signal if disconnected form power and/or satellite signal, and may still operate for a while if you try later, until it doesn't get any more key updates.Well, last time it didn't get removed from my account and my next bill had the multi charge. I never tested the receiver to see if it still worked, I just assumed it wouldn't and put it away.
Now I've been through the same process again, and this time I did check the second receiver, and it still works, hence my concern about getting billed again. I am going to leave it connected and see what happens. Any idea how long it should take to die?
2008-10-06, 02:27 PM
you've mentioned that the other receiver was activated to do some troubleshooting. is starchoice sending you a replacement receiver under the lifetime replacement warranty program? if so, then both of your current receivers need to be activated at least until you get the replacement receiver activated, to qualify for the lifetime warranty.
2008-10-06, 06:45 PM
you've mentioned that the other receiver was activated to do some troubleshooting. is starchoice sending you a replacement receiver under the lifetime replacement warranty program? if so, then both of your current receivers need to be activated at least until you get the replacement receiver activated, to qualify for the lifetime warranty.I understand your point, thank you for bringing it to my attention. But I don't qualify for a replacement receiver, because although I own three receivers, I only keep one of them active at any given time. The other two are spares. So no warranty.
It doesn't appear to be a receiver problem anyway, since both receivers have the same issues (missing channels). All four ports on the quad LNB produce the same result, both receivers have been factory reset and hit by SC, so it would appear to be a faulty LNB.
This LNB was installed by a SC tech in January, although the old beer can one was working just fine. I don't know why he did that.
Edit: or the coax has gone bad, that would do it too....
2008-10-08, 12:50 PM
Has it not worked since the LNBF was changed? Perhaps they never changed the v-code for the new LNBF.
2008-10-08, 02:18 PM
if only certain channels are not coming in , you will want to check and see if all those channels are on the same 1 or 2 transponders or all on the same satellite. on older models of receivers, push options 6778 to get into the hidden menu, then choose number 1 for manually tune frequency. the frequency in the box at the bottom right is the downconverted frequency coming down the cable from the dish. whichever channel you were on when you went to this menu screen will be shown here. if the only channels that don't work are all on this same frequency, then it's most likely a dropout at that frequency, most likely from something in the cable run such as a surge protector, poor connection, staple or kink in the cable, very old deteriorated cable, multiswitch or amplifier. lnb's can do it too but it's rare. on the same screen near the top you will see a couple of check boxes marked 22khz tone. if the check mark in in the "on" box then the channel you are tuned to is on the f2 satellite and if it's checked for off, that channel is on the f1 satellite which has most of the english and non hd programming.
you can enter a new frequency here or change the 22 khz tone selection without fear, the settings will go back to the originals as soon as you change channels. selecting anything else though such as factory reset will mean you will have to call starchoice for a rehit.
to find something in the cabling that's causing a dropout requires some special ( expensive ) equipment such as an rf noise generator, spectrum analyzer, time domain reflectometer, ohmeter etc. etc. usually it's easier to just get a long enough length of new cable to temporarily run a bypass and see what happens.
the most common problems i've seen are in this order
1-surge protector is bad ( cable goes through coax connectors on it )
2-staple driven through cable ( not causing a short circuit but enough to knock out a few transponders )
3-kink in the cable ( look for knots , kinks, twists, cuts where it goes over a sharp edge, flattened. ) the outlet box in the wall is a good place to look, you might find excess cable crammed into the tiny box causing kinks or the cable clamp on the box has been tightened down too much and flattened the cable.
4-deteriorated cable. if it's on the outside you might see the outer rubber covering cracking or looking scaly. if it's underground, water might be getting inside. anywhere else the foam between the shield and center wire can crumble with age. the copper can get oxidized making a poor connection and the shield can open up letting the signal escape.
5-bad lnb. usually the problem is oscillation in the electrical circuits inside swamping one or 2 of the transponders.
2008-10-08, 02:53 PM
But I don't qualify for a replacement receiver, because although I own three receivers, I only keep one of them active at any given time. The other two are spares. So no warranty.
I'm no expert here, but I swear someone in the know said that one could *start* paying a multi-receiver charge at the time his or her receiver needed to be replaced. Then you have to continue paying the charge for 12 months. But you could activate the other receiver(s) immediately and utilize the multi-receiver charge to get a replacement receiver. I'm pretty sure someone said this...
2008-10-09, 09:56 AM
Has it not worked since the LNBF was changed? Perhaps they never changed the v-code for the new LNBF.No, the new one worked fine. Everything was cool until I lost the channels two weeks ago.
2008-10-09, 10:56 AM
you will want to check and see if all those channels are on the same 1 or 2 transpondersYes, I sure do want to know that. Is there somewhere I can get a list of which channels are on which transponders?
Meantime, I am following the procedure you described (which is damn tedious!) working my way up from 299, which is a working channel. When I get through the list of bad channels, I'll look for a pattern.
I don't suspect the coax, it runs down the inside of an unused chimney into the basement. Only about 1.5m is exposed to the weather, and it looks fine. The rest is a straight run right to the receiver with no bends, staples, switches, boxes, nothing at all.
SC tech is coming on Saturday to fix it, so I could just leave it for him, but I am curious about what is going on. And the supposedly deactivated receiver is still working.
Thanks for the tips, I will get back to it now and see how many frequencies don't work.
2008-10-09, 11:07 AM
you could activate the other receiver(s) immediately and utilize the multi-receiver charge to get a replacement receiver.True enough, but I can't see how it's a receiver problem, since both currently active boxes show the same missing channels when connected to the dish one at a time.
2008-10-09, 11:22 AM
since both currently active boxes show the same missing channels
I would think that proves it isn't the receiver. First rule of diagnosis is to switch receivers. If the problem follows the receiver then that is the cause. If Star Choice has already done a diagnosis from their end (ie done a hit on the signal) then it must be your outside equipment.
This time of the year moisture will creep into any summer heat cracking etc. I had an inline ground block that the installer had added. Moisture on that prevented me from getting the HD channels. Have them service your dish again.
2008-10-09, 01:15 PM
i had made up a database listing of what channels are on each transponder so that i could sort them either by channel # or transponder # but it's usually only good for a few months and something new is added or they play "musical transponders" and shuffle things around. you wouldn't know that a channel has been moved to another transponder until you bring up a diagnostic menu on screen because the receiver can automatically update itself and change transponders or satellites without you noticing anything happened.
the following though is a short list of 1 channel per transponder that i use when i'm on a service call. tp's 1 through 16 are vertical polarity 13 volts and tp's 17 to 32 horizontal polarity 18 volts.
1-507, 2-335, 3-418, 4-654, 5-392, 6-331, 7-501, 8-520, 9-307, 10-352, 11-503, 12-354, 13-299, 14-325, 15-360, 16-398, 17-344, 18-391, 19-403, 20-540, 21-301, 22-515, 23-not starchoice, 24-not starchoice, 25-583, 26-551, 27-none in the west, 28-554, 29-508, 30-339, 31-310, 32-389
F2 SATELLITE HD CHANNELS
2-276, 21-278, 8-295, 25-272, 10-280, 11-293, 12-281, 15-287, 31-216, 32-273
if the one channel listed here works, you could safely assume the rest of the channels on that transponder also work.
"Is there somewhere I can get a list of which channels are on which transponders?"
Try those links:
2008-10-09, 01:52 PM
if the one channel listed here works, you could safely assume the rest of the channels on that transponder also work.Great stuff, thank you! I followed the diagnostic you posted earlier in the thread, and I have identified eleven discreet frequencies for the dead channels. Some frequencies have 7 dead channels, some have only one. But I only checked subscribed channels and only standard definition ones - no HD equipment here. Obviously there could be other channels on the frequencies that also don't work. I can post the list of freqs if it is of some use.
Looking at my list, I have 47 dead channels ranging from 300 to 583. That's a lotta channels! I will take this list you've posted above and see what works and what doesn't. Thanks for taking the time to post it!
Edit: I think your list did the trick to identify a pattern. All the channels on the list that work are on TP 16 or lower, and all the ones that don't work are on TP 17 or higher. It appears that horizontal polarity is kaput.
2008-10-11, 01:13 PM
if you have lost only channels that are horizontal polarity, then the possibilities are as follows.
1-wrong v-code in the receiver so that the type of dish doesn't match the type the receiver is set for.
2-not enough voltage getting up the cable to the lnb to make it switch to horizontal polarity. possibly a bad cable connector if you have more than 1 receiver. the other receiver(s) can power up the lnb for you but the problem receiver can't get the 18volts out to make the lnb switch.
3-if you have a dish with a stacked type of lnb there may be something in the cable line that limits the frequency response to less than 1500 mhz.
4-the voltage regulator in the receiver that controls the 18 volt output from the receiver may have failed.
5-the lnb may be bad
6-a surge protector in the cable line may be the wrong type for satellite use. i've seen some cable tv type of surge protectors that would permit 13 volts on the cable but as soon as you put more than that on the cable it would clamp the voltage to 15 volts.
to check a voltage problem you need a satellite meter that can measure the voltage in line at the dish while the receiver is powering the lnb. you could measure the voltage with an ordinary voltmeter but that would only tell you that the voltage may be missing altogether. you need to measure it under load to tell if the problem is a bad connection.
most rg6 cable is good quality but i have seen some that had poor quality aluminum foil braid with no drain wires to handle the current. if you wanted to try substituting a piece of good quality cable from the dish temporarily through an open door or window that might tell you that something is wrong with your cabling.
i've seen satellite receivers that had no voltage output for one of their polarities, usually after a power surge or lightning. an ordinary voltmeter would check that measuring between the center wire and the metal barrel of the cable connection. you would have 13 volts on one of the vertical channels such as 299 and 18 volts on a horizontal channel such as 300.