: Saudi textbooks still teaching hate: report


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eljay
2008-07-18, 12:22 PM
From this article (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=662057):Despite a promise to remove attacks on other faiths from the public school curriculum, Saudi Arabia's state-produced textbooks still refer to Jews and Christians as apes and swine, insist that Jews conspire to take over the world and on Judgment Day "the rocks or the trees" will call out to Muslims to kill the Jews, says the Washington-based Hudson Institute, a conservative think tank.

The textbooks, used by five million students in the kingdom every year, as well as in many Saudi-funded institutions outside the country, also attack homosexuals and Muslims who do not practice a fundamentalist form of Islam.If this were a story about Iran, people / the media would be flapping their gums about the need to bomb them back to the stone age ASAP. Given that it's about "our friend" Saudi Arabia, however, it will likely get little to no coverage and generate little to no reaction despite the proven Saudi track record of creating and exporting terrrrists... :rolleyes:

barter
2008-07-18, 12:55 PM
Sad but it's true.

Larry
2008-07-18, 01:30 PM
I don't really think this is "news". This has been the case in the Palestinian schools and likely in Iran, Syria, etc. The Arab world continues to promote hatred using the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (which was a best seller in Iran) and the blood libel in their schools.

powerstream
2008-07-18, 03:17 PM
Still is a best seller throughout the Arab world, that and Hitler's Mein Kampf. And most of this is state-sanctioned. But of course don't expect world leaders, especially those of oil consuming nations who rely heavily on the Arabs for their oil, to say or do anything productive. Many just accept it as a fact of life.

hugh
2008-07-18, 04:31 PM
Oh please! Mein Kampf sold about 25,000 copies in Turkey and made it to #4 on the bestseller list when it was first published in 2005. That hardly makes it a best seller throughout the Arab World.

BTW, Most analysts attributed the sales to low price and sheer curiousity and nothing to do with virulent anti-semitism.

james99
2008-07-18, 04:42 PM
Mein Kampf is a historical document. Owning it or reading it doesn't make you a Nazi.

IMHO it's no different than reading the bible.

powerstream
2008-07-19, 05:38 PM
Oh please! Mein Kampf sold about 25,000 copies in Turkey and made it to #4 on the bestseller list when it was first published in 2005. That hardly makes it a best seller throughout the Arab World.

BTW, Most analysts attributed the sales to low price and sheer curiousity and nothing to do with virulent anti-semitism.
Turkey is not part of the Arab world, Hugh, and Turkey is a strongly secular democratic state. There's obviously a difference between private sales of Hitler's book in Turkey in book stores and state-sanctioned education in Saudi Arabia, who's a despotic theocracy practicing one of Islam's most extreme and volatile sects. In Turkey I would see how a book like this may be for the so-called intelligentsia but in Saudi Arabia a book like that as part of a mandatory curriculum for kids is meant for one thing: fostering hate and the nurturing of yet another generation of Muslim terrorists.

powerstream
2008-07-19, 05:40 PM
Mein Kampf is a historical document. Owning it or reading it doesn't make you a Nazi.

IMHO it's no different than reading the bible.
Obviously it doesn't make one a Nazi. But a person who's already constantly exposed to virulent prejudice against other religions and ideologies by their government are more prone to trust that authority and treat a book like that as a bible if you know what I mean.

I_Want_My_HDTV
2008-07-19, 06:25 PM
There are a number of Muslim schools in Canada, at least one locally that I am aware of. I wonder if these schools also teach such things which, BTW, are contrary to Canadians law. But wait... that might violate their religious freedom. It it Ok for minorities to teach hate against Canadians but illegal for Canadians to do the same against minorities? An interesting scenario indeed. :confused:

Jake
2008-07-19, 08:42 PM
I wonder if these schools also teach such things

I highly doubt it. You are comparing some Saudi schools to Canadian schools and saying the rules in Saudi Arabia might apply here. Next compare Northern Ireland Catholic schools with Canadian Catholic schools.

polaris
2008-07-21, 01:28 PM
Obviously it doesn't make one a Nazi. But a person who's already constantly exposed to virulent prejudice against other religions and ideologies by their government are more prone to trust that authority and treat a book like that as a bible if you know what I mean.
IMO ignoring hate is a problem also. Its hard to identify if you dont know what it is. A KKK costume might not look so bad if you didnt know ahead of time what it stood for by reading history. Its up to educators to put such history in its context though.

hugh
2008-07-21, 01:57 PM
Turkey is not part of the Arab world, Hugh

I know that but search and you will find that Mein Kampf getting to #4 on the Turkish Bestseller list was the impetus for a bunch of right wing blowhards to claim that Mein Kampf is "Still is a best seller throughout the Arab world"

Since you're deflecting the conversation Powerstream, can you please provide some stats showin that Mein Kampf was and "Still is a best seller throughout the Arab world?" I'd like to see those figures

Larry
2008-07-21, 02:20 PM
Whether some particular book is on a "best seller" list is not really the point. The point is that the Arab countries promote hatred against others (Jews and others) to advance their own agenda. This is precisely what the Germans did leading to the Holocaust - to make people believe that the Jews were not "human" (de-humanization) and did not deserve to live. This is taught in Arab schools and continues to promote hatred towards Israel and Jews around the world.

hugh
2008-07-21, 02:31 PM
Sorry Larry but I believe the point is the truth. Saying things like "Mein Kampf is still a best seller throughout the Arab world" is, to my knowledge, inaccurate, inflammatory and part of the reason that the world is in such poor straits. Hyperbole, over the top rhetoric and falsehoods often prevent issues from being resolved because fact is so far from the fiction.

The OP was about hate being taught in schools in Saudi Arabia. You and Powerstream are now saying that "This is taught in Arab schools" not just in Saudi Arabia.

By exaggerating the scope of the problem and extrapolating one countries actions to 15 or 20 countries you have undermined your argument and lost credibility. Next it will get extrapolated to every Muslim country and so on.

I certainly don't believe that every school in every Arab country is teaching hatred against Jews and Christians any more than I believe the teachings of various Christian Fundamentalists (and militant Jews) are representative of what is being taught in the entire Western World.

IS there problems? Certainly, but lets discuss it a rationale manner that doesn't resort to hyperbole.

stampeder
2008-07-24, 03:10 AM
a person who's already constantly exposed to virulent prejudice against other religions and ideologies by their governmentHere's a very on-topic article from Israel's newspaper of record, Ha’aretz, with the title: "Citizenship law makes Israel an apartheid state":

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/996697.html

Israel. Apartheid. You see, prejudice and offences against human rights cut both ways. Israel has no moral high ground on these issues, and it is refreshing to read knowledgeable, circumspect Israelis objectively discussing this truth.

Larry
2008-07-24, 09:09 AM
Stampeder.. in civilized countries there is freedom of the press, where anyone can express on opinion on the left, right or wherever. This man's opinion does not make it fact. Do you believe everything you read in the paper? Do you agree with every editorial in your local paper? Every commentary ? Obviously not. This article is devoid of any facts - just a lot of opinion.

And isn't this off topic ?

An excerpt from Wikipedia:

Criticism of the "Israeli apartheid" usage for its inherent implication of racism has been widespread. In 2003, South Africa's minister for home affairs Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi said that "The Israeli regime is not apartheid. It is a unique case of democracy".[80] According to Fred Taub, the President of Boycott Watch, "[t]he assertion ... that Israel is practicing apartheid is not only false, but may be considered libelous. ... The fact is that it is the Arabs who are discriminating against non-Muslims, especially Jews."[81] Similarly, in 2004, Jean-Christophe Rufin, former vice-president of Médecins Sans Frontières and president of Action Against Hunger, recommended in a report about anti-Semitism[82] commissioned by French Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin[83] that the charge of apartheid and racism against Israel be criminalized in France.[11] He wrote:

"[T]here is no question of penalising political opinions that are critical, for example, of any government and are perfectly legitimate. What should be penalised in the perverse and defamatory use of the charge of racism against those very people who were victims of racism to an unparalleled degree. The accusations of racism, of apartheid, of Nazism carry extremely grave moral implications. These accusations have, in the situation in which we find ourselves today, major consequences which can, by contagion, put in danger the lives of our Jewish citizens. It is why we invite reflection on the advisability and applicability of a law ... which would permit the punishment of those who make without foundation against groups, institutions or states accusations of racism and utilise for these accusations unjustified comparisons with apartheid or Nazism."[11]

The idea that "Israeli apartheid" implies a policy of racial or other discrimination against Arabs or Muslims has been rejected by other prominent figures. In 2004's The Trouble with Islam Today, Irshad Manji argues that the allegation of apartheid in Israel is deeply misleading, noting that there are in Israel several Arab political parties; that Arab-Muslim legislators have veto powers; and that Arab parties have overturned disqualifications. She also points to Arabs like Emile Habibi, who have been awarded prestigious prizes. She also observes that Israel has a free Arab press; that road signs bear Arabic translations; and that Arabs live and study alongside Jews. She also claims that Palestinans commuting from the West Bank are entitled to state benefits and legal protections.[84]

stampeder
2008-07-24, 12:24 PM
This article is devoid of any facts - just a lot of opinion.Ahem... it is an editorial. If you don't agree with it, fine, but it is indeed refreshing reading.

Larry
2008-07-24, 12:41 PM
I'm not sure I understand your point. "Refreshing" - in what way? Israel has its critics both internal and external. Its an open society where people are free to express their opinions on the country's policies. Many Israelis are critical of their government policies, many are supportive. That is what happens in a democratic, modern society.

This particular article is critical of a law relating to citizenship by marriage. The law applies to all equally, and does not discriminate. As such it has nothing to do with racism or Apartheid. Its ok to criticize the law (it was passed by a slim margin) but to use it as a way to label Israel "Apartheid" as the author does explicitly, is strictly defamatory.

What I would like to see is more self-reflection and self-criticism in the Arab world - media, newspapers, etc. It doesn't happen. In today's Citizen, I was pleased to see some self-reflection on Muslim/Arab attitudes and a bit of self-criticism. I think this is healthy and may result is change over time.

stampeder
2008-07-24, 12:54 PM
I think this is healthy and may result is change over time.That will be refreshing too. In the mean time, we still have sensationalized, lowest common denominator media crap like the National Post article linked in the first post.

polaris
2008-07-24, 08:29 PM
Ahem... it is an editorial. If you don't agree with it, fine, but it is indeed refreshing reading.
Editorial yes, but the part about the judges was important. It seems this law is violating their human rights code and is allowed to stand because of a silly assumption by one judge. This assume the info is correct.