Just a friendly reminder to use the Where can I buy? (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164) forum for discussion on installers and parts vendors. Thank you.

I know crossposts are frowned upon, but I would like to draw everyone in the regions attention to Post 450 onward in the CBC Thread - http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=144966 since it likely affects them. Lets keep all posts on the subject in one spot as well.

Hello, I live at the Lakeshore/Tecumseh (Manning and 22) border and I just installed a new Antenna Craft HU33 in my attic with a rotor and pre-amp and am happy with the channels I am getting.
So far, I get all Detroit channels very strong including 48 in analog with no snow.
9 and 32 come in without having to turn the rotor, but signal goes to perfect when I do. I also get 16 and 22 with the signal meter on both my TVs at 50% when pointed directly at them.
I also get 51 and 42 (Clear) and Toledo 11 and 13 (weak but consistent). I also seem to get 5 and 8 from Cleveland again if pointed right to the transmitters and for some reason, 5 is fairly strong considering it is the furthest away.
I am just wondering, will I loose many of the channels during bad weather and winter months for will the reception I am getting now be fairly consistent year round. Also, what channels would I gain if I were to move the antenna to the roof. Thanks

My friend was talking to me that after the digital transition, he could not get 50 anymore with a certain antenna. He lives in Inwood. He gets all of the other channels from Detroit, and London. Found out that CW50 comes in on RF 14, which is the same as CITS in London. Not only that, but the digital transition made 14.1 stronger It almost goes to Sarnia now. I did not know, that they could put a station on that frequency, so close to one another.

Your friend is right between the two signals, so he is sort of in a null on RF 14 where tropo is going to mess with him. Don't forget, this is on WKBD's modified contour. Back in 2008 WKBD (aka CW50) had wanted to boost its juice. It would had increased the contour from 46 miles to 52 miles (basically, it wanted a stronger signal in Flint). But I.C. interjected and said there was a concern of interference on RF 14 with CITS in London, so WKBD said they would null the signal towards that direction.

Anyways, I would look at

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1286917&map=Y

and

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1346290&map=Y

Your friend should probably consider getting a UHF antenna that has a high gain on RF 14 and point it either at Detroit or London.

I pretty much saw the same thing when our stations switched to digital last fall. Before the switch CHWI-26 in Windsor was analog and despite that, we could still get WVIZ rf26 from Cleveland most of the time at about 30-50% quality. (CHWI analog looked like 98% snowy picture when facing Cleveland)

When CHWI-26 went digital at 200 watts we could no longer get WVIZ. This is because the NTSC broadcast didn't use the full 6 mhz channel width which allowed WVIZ to settle into the unused or 'wasted' portions of the analog channel enough to make decoding easier. When there is two digitals fighting it out it's much more lethal. Knowing this, we will probably have an exceedingly difficult time getting WGTE rf29 here when CIII 29 in Sarnia converts.

It's a remarkable thing to see.. occasionally CIII 29 analog goes off the air for whatever reason, and when that happens, WGTE's signal more than doubles. Doesn't help either that CIII 29 is reflected back to us from the 'Ruthven ridge' where it's upslope begins about a km or so to the southwest where we need to point to get WGTE in the first place.

You'll note that the Rabbitears maps show a fair amount of signal from London and virtually nil from Detroit in the Inwood area. That's as it should be.

There's also PBS Flint on 28.1 plus subs and ION tv from Ann Arbor on 31.1 plus sub ch's. Try for those also.

Yes bad weather will affect reception. Also, summer brings tropo conditions that typically aren't available during the winter months. The winter is the best time to test for consistent reception.

He still gets 50, if he turns the antenna, towards Detroit. But does not get 14.1 CTS from London Now we now the rest of the story...

btw my above post was @ Zack1972.....forgot to mention

Thanks for the replies on my previous post. I am a little puzzeled by CHWI 16 and the fact that with my antenna and rotor, I get between 60% to 80% signal depending on the weather, for the most part, it is mostly at 70% and there is slight pixellation on the screen. The sound is fine and the pixellation is only in small lines across different parts of the screen and at differing times. The picture is still very viewable, but the lines popping in and out are annoying. I also recieve Global 22 and CHCH 51 (turning the rotor) and TVO 33 and they have a consistently weaker signal between 50% and 60% and they do not seem to have this problem. CHWI 16 is the only station I get this problem on. Is this a station issue or could it be with my setup.

From my location, I can't get CHWI on RF 16, but for what it is worth, check out Rabbit Ears (http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=14). You fall just within the CIII-DT-22 main contour, but for CHWI your just outside of it. My gut says that shouldn't make a difference, but you never know. Your better off to use CHWI-DT-60 on RF 26. Compare the two signals.

Perhaps DHC'er Phil81 who is closer to the transmitter can speak to if he see's what your seeing or not?

Also, you can always contact CHWI to see if they have any knowledge of a technical issue.

Perhaps DHC'er Phil81 who is closer to the transmitter can speak to if he see's what your seeing or not?CHWI-16 is actually broadcasting the pixellation. Our OTA setups are not the problem. I see the same random constant pixellation problems on all tuners and ch 16 is a very strong signal at only 15 km away with no obstructions. I wrote here about this last fall and since then contacted CTV engineering about it but nothing was ever done to resolve it.

I have found that the broadcast of CHWI-16 lags about 3 seconds behind CHWI-26's broadcast in Windsor when I switch back and forth between them. Guessing this is probably the delay from a microwave link they use from Windsor to the broadcast tower near Wheatley. Wish I knew why it hasn't been fixed in over 8 months now other than they can't due to something out of their control.

In between Windsor and Wheatley, are those huge expansive wind farms/turbines that are taller than anything else in the region. This a just a guess, but CTV2's microwave signal may be getting mangled and partially corrupted due to them. In my case, my home is around 3 km southeast from the ones near Cottam and since they started spinning in Aug 2009, our Detroit UHF OTA reception has been absolutely terrible and suffers from incredible multipath which can be seen on the signal quality meter (back and forth like a pendulum in a repetitive motion) and also easily seen as a heavy fluttering picture in the remaining analog channels in the area.(CBEFT 35,CIII 29,CKCO 42,CBLN 55,CBLFT 48)

Here's some of posts I made about CHWI pixellation issues since the dtv flash cut:
Sept 2011
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1309437#post1309437
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1309758#post1309758
Oct 2011
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1330425#post1330425

alebowgm, it seems odd to me that you can't receive CHWI 16. I'm way west of you, and CHWI 16 drops in and out, but locks enough to somewhat watch a program. CHWI 26 however, rarely locks.

CIII 22 seems to extend far more than the pattern indicates. From those maps, my chances of picking up anything from it, yet alone actually decoding it, are slim to none, yet the signal is a constant 60-70% when pointed directly at the tower.

Well my setup has four unique factors, which causes my many issues.

First, the CM4228 is highly directional. I have it pointed at Southfield to get a reliable signal of the main Detroit stations. I have it peaked for WDIV, as that station is often the weakest and would see constant dropouts until I found a sweet spot. But doing so means I lose the secondary Detroit stations (WPXD, W33BY, WADL, WLPC) and most Essex stations (CHWI (16 and normally 26), CICO, CIII). I do get CBET because by pointing at Southfield I get the McGregor tower on the backside of my unit and since CM4228 has high RF9 gain, I get 2-4 bars on the Samsung or a normally solid 40% that sometimes jumps to 45-50% on the Access unit. But once in a while it will quickly fade in and out. So, I went out and got a CM4220HD and hooked up an old CM7775 with it. With that unit + preamp, I can get a signal on all Detroit stations except a few secondary stations (WDWO, WUDT, W33BY) and I also get CHWI (26) and CICO. Heck, I even get a decent analog signal on CKCO from Sarnia, which is why I am now hoping that the rumors of the station going digital this summer come to fruition. But WDIV becomes unstable, WJBK drops from solid 11 bars/100% signal to 2-4 bars/40% signal and CBET falls off the map. I recently went and picked up a CM7777 but it was the new model without the VHF input. I had wanted to just pick-up some rabbit ears for the VHF port or just use the CM4228 and try to grab CBET off of it. If that worked, I was then prepared to sacrifice the secondary Detroit stations and purchase a proper trap for RF45 (or perhaps even get a custom one built by Tin Lee in Toronto for everything from RF43 up, although that may sacrifice W48AV, which the CM4220HD can pull in with a rather watchable analog signal and unless the plans for WPXD have changed, that station is supposed to be sold and then converted to digital. Also, I would like to see how reception of WPXD is if it does move to RF50). I had thought about the old Jointenna solution, but since that often traps stations +/- 3 RF up and down, that would probably kill some other stations. So for now, I just use an A/B switch which is rather annoying.

Second, I am on the 3rd floor of an apartment building that faces east-northeast. I have about 7.5 feet clearance top to bottom and the rail is about 3.5 feet. If I look straight from my balcony I am viewing the GM Building. With WDWO just west of the main Southfield station, the CM4228 is just able to get it (10 bars/100% signal). So I have a total null of everything west of both WDWO and CBET/CICO. So Toledo is a total no go for me. Meanwhile, CIII I often see on RF 22 jumping around 1 bar/15-27% but I have never been able to get a lock. As for CHWI (16) I have never seen any signal there, although to be honest I don't think I have ever even tried to use the CM4228 to pull in CHWI (16) but for CHWI (26) I am 5 minutes from Victoria Park Place which is why I attribute getting that signal all the time with the CM4220HD turned into Windsor, and on and off with the CM4228 pointed at Southfield. Also, looking at Rabbit Ears, I am located in a null for CHWI (16) (http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1283741&map=Y) and CIII (http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1283359&map=Y). I have tried for CIII with both antennas but have never had luck.

Third, I don't have the CM4228 fully clear of the balcony rail. In fact, only about 1/4 of it sticks above the rail. Its sitting on a patio chair zip tied down, using an Extend Super J-Pipe for satellite dishes. Yes I know its not ideal, but it won't fall over the rail and at worst, it damages the antenna. I don't have the requisite skills to get a proper mast and secure it up against the rails or use the dish in a bucket of concrete trick. Meanwhile, the CM4220HD has trouble getting WADL when its on the balcony, which I attribute to reflection from the building across the ally from my balcony having reflective roofing. But when I have the CM4220HD sitting in the bedroom window which just clears that building, I get 11 bars/100% signal. The CM4220HD also sits higher than the CM4228. Given this, it causes problems for me trying to combine the signals since the cable lengths differ, I am using different antenna models, not using proper spacing and the CM7775 overpowers the CM4228 on VHF knocking out CBET and WJBK when using a splitter in reverse. I have considered the Winegard CC-7870 Antenna Coupler but I think I am probably just wasting my money so I have long been gun shy about picking one up.

Fourth, I have tree cover to my north and as far west I can get until I am aiming into the building. Plus, with only about 25 feet or so in height, I also have to contend with the big ships in the Detroit River which I think at times may lead to some intermittent interference. I am also rather close (about 15 feet away) from electrical lines.

I am able to contend with the elements and have enough satisfaction with my setup to get by. But, with my lady friend moving in come August, I may have some push back with my current setup, so if any local DHC'ers want to look at my setup, I am open to anything to try and stabilize what I have. I even considered the Shaw Direct offer for free service of lost OTA channels (see HERE (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=143941)) but I determined that I won't have LOS. I am open to anything and have even considered getting a pay installer out, but I don't know how much more they can do than I already have. The CM4228 all winter long was able to get consistent signal on WCMZ, but it has for all intensive purposes fallen off my map in since end of March. This was surprising for me since WCMZ lines right up with most of the Southfield stations from my location. If I could combine by reception on the CM4228 with getting WCMZ, CBET (reliable), CICO, CHWI and WADL I would probably be a happy camper.

To sum, I am using one highly directional antenna and one decently directional antenna, neither of which have VHF and neither of which are ideally mounted.

as a side note about CHWI 16, before they made the switch to digital they had similar little blips, which would show up as double audio from a slightly different time and usually had descriptive video.
I don't know if the digital problem may stem from the same problem which cause the analog one or not.

I just got a note from the head engineer at the station, We are scheduled to be conducting field strength tests over the summer months for CHWI DTV-16 and DTV-26. I hope to have tangible results to share at completion.

Just did a scan today and ION tv is broadcasting from their Southfield location in the metro with a strong signal.

But is mapping on RF50 to 50.3 50.4 50.5, must be still working on signal.

Great addition to our local HD OTA lineup.:D

Let's see how long WPXD stays on RF50 this time. Fingers crossed that the move is final.