i considered keeping the small UHF-only bowtie in service and simply teaming it up with a CM7777 on a rotor so i could swing it around and pull in the toledo stations, but i'm not sure how feasable this is.

Lecocq: nice catch on WKYC! they have a muffler on their transmitter to limit how much signal leaks over to Canada. Pretty cool snagging digital low-power repeater CKXT-DT-2 (SunTV 19)... You even got WGRZ from Buffalo? awesome catch for our area! what are you using?

When there is good tropo is it possible to get anything using such a tiny antenna if I place it outside?

wouldnt hurt to try. As you suggest your pretty much facing North so I think this would not help the situation. I would be interested in your results if you do try this.
NE might or should pull you in a Detroit station but the type of antenna you have is not designed for this.
Like I said, it would be an interesting project.

Mark

Ringtailed Fox - 3.1 WKYC I get on an almost steady basis with my antenna pointed towards Detroit. I was pretty suprised at this as well. Alot of those channels have disappeared since I first left the post. Was thinking of playing around with the rotor to see what I could snag today.

I'm using the tuner on my Samsung tv and I'm not sure on the antenna as it was here when we bought the house a couple of years back. All I know is it's a rooftop antenna :). There is a Ventura amplifier where the cable comes into the house and that's it. I really think we are in a good area here between Chatham and Windsor and the picture is crystal clear on all Detroit stations.

3.1 WKYC I get on an almost steady basis with my antenna pointed towards Detroit.

This is interesting as I have a very hard time without tropo getting stuff from Cleveland and I am closer to there than you in Tilbury. More and more i'm thinking that being so close to CHWI 16 tower here is hurting my chances of getting it. Over the next few weeks as tropo dies down for the year can you keep us updated if you can still regularly get WKYC, etc... channels?

So recently moved from North Toronto down to Windsor near the bridge. Brought my TV, H260F, CM 4228 and preamp all down. Using the CM 4228 inside the appartment and without the preamp as I found it was overloading the recievers, I am pulling all of the Detroit stations sans ION on 31. So far, even with the preamp, I have been unable to find a way to to get 31. So my question to the locals are, is this a hard channel to pull? Second problem, somehow the DTB-H260F Samsung STB broke on the move from Toronto to Windsor. So now I went over to the local Zellers and got the RCA unit that is now in my footer. My question though is, does anyone know where in the city I could get it repaired? I spoke to Samsung and its a year out of warantee, so they want $110 USD to fix the terminal. Seems sorta steep but if there was a guy in town who could fix the unit, it would almost be worth it.

Advice to your new neighboor would be great :)

it is VERY hard to pull in for a variety of reasons:

It broadcasts from just north of Chelsea, MI (55 miles west of windsor, 10 miles north of Ann Arbor, MI), so it's actually much closer to Lansing, MI than Detroit, MI...
It also experiences some co-channel interference in the summer from CITY-TV-2 from Woodstock, also on 31, particularly when tropo skip is bad.

They plan to move to WKBD-DT's tower in Southfield, MI and broadcast on channel 50 instead of 31, though... not sure when this move will be set, but i have not recieved WPXD-DT (channel 31) or its subchannels since august... i thought the station went off the air for a bit.

alebowgm: if you can, please point your antenna towards Amherstburg (the southwest). you'll not only get all the Detroit stations, but you'll pull in the TOLEDO ones, too!

Your lineup will look similar to this (under ideal conditions, using physical channels):
WJBK-DT 7 (FOX) Detroit
CBET-TV 9 (CBC) Windsor (they'll move to digital on 35, then back to 9... broadcasts from the same tower as CICO-TV-32)
WTOL-DT 11 (CBS) Toledo
WTVG-DT 13 (ABC) Toledo
WKBD-DT 14 (The CW) Detroit
CHWI-TV 16 (A) Wheatley/Windsor (broacdasts from wheatley, it'll move to digital on 66, then back to 16)
WDWO-CA 18 (TCT) Detroit (Religious... seems pretty high-power for a low-power class-a station, broadcasts from dearborn)
CJMT-TV-2 20 (OMNI.2) London (this rolls in now and then, now that WMYD's moved to 21)
WMYD-DT 21 (MyNetworkTV) Detroit/Windsor (this is a BLOWTORCH! nothing can knock this out aside from a power outage!)
CIII-TV-22 (Global) Leamington (has a construction permit to move to digital on 6)
WUDT-CA 23 (Daystar) Currently analog on 23, has a CP to move to 8
WLPC-LP 26 (FamilyNet) Detroit (brands itself as "Christian Television Network"... no relation to the real CTN)
WFUM-DT 28 (PBS) Flint (transmitter's in northern oakland county, about 55 miles north... this shouldn't be too hard to drag in)
WGTE-DT 29 (PBS) Toledo (this one's real easy to drag in... omnidirectional AND pretty high-powered)
WPXD-DT 31 (ION) Detroit (this one's a real pain in the bum to pull in... storms or even a breeze on a warm sunny day will kill it. luckily, it's moving to 50 soon... let's just hope that ION Television can afford it)
CICO-TV-32 32 (TVO) McGregor (broadcasts from the McGregor Broadcast Tower, 18 km south of Windsor)
W33BY-CA 33 (Independent) Hamtramck, MI (low-power community station, broadcasts from the same dearborn, MI tower as WDWO-CA)
CFTV-TV 34 (community) Leamington (this one's really low-powered, might even get stomped by tropo from WHQS-DT 34 in Cleveland)
CBEFT-DT 35 (SRC) Windsor (after CBET-DT moves to digital on 35, it'll move back to 9 to let CBEFT take this spot)
WADL-DT 39 (Independent) Mt. Clemens (this one broadcasts from Mount Clemens, Northeast of Windsor, and somewhat away from the Southfield Transmitter Farm, where the other detroit AM/FM/TV stations broadcast from, still pretty solid to get though)
WXYZ-DT 41 (ABC) Detroit
CKCO-TV-42 (CTV) Sarnia (dunno where this one's going digital-wise, but it puts a marginal signal into windsor... watchable about half the time)
WTVS-DT 43 (PBS) Detroit (this one's about to triple its power output to 600 kW or so to help serve London better, so be careful with overloading)
WWJ-DT 44 (CBS) Detroit
WDIV-DT 45 (NBC) Detroit
WUPW-DT 46 (FOX) Toledo
W66BV-D 47 (TBN) Detroit (this religious station is allocated channel 47, and broadcasts from the top of the Renaissance Center in downtown detroit, hasn't started yet)
WNWO-DT (NBC) Toledo (great station.. has a null towards Windsor and Detroit... but you should be able to drag it in...)
WPXD-DT 50 (ION) Detroit (this will hopefully be the new permanent home of WPXD-DT, though its' supposed to be directional, and no one knows where the null lobes will be yet...)
CHCH-TV-2 (Independent) London (this one broadcasts from Alvinston, half-way between London and Glencoe... it comes in every night, and even during the day!)
CBEFT-TV 54 (SRC) Windsor (supposed to move to 69, then to 35 as its final home)
CHWI-TV-60 60 (A) Windsor (repeats channel 16... watch out for overloading as it broadcasts in analog from the Victoria Park Place apartments in downtown! this will move first to 65, then to 25 as its final home)
W66BV 66 (TBN) Detroit (will convert to digital to become W66BV-D on 47)

You might get these ones on a part-time basis:
WLMB-DT 5 (Family Net) Toledo
WUDT-LD 8 (Daystar) Detroit (Construction permit, but they've been allocated channel 8)
CFPL-TV 10 (A) London (this tends to come in after battling it out over WILX-DT (NBC Lansing) and WOIO-DT (CBS Cleveland), both on 10)
WILX-DT 10 (NBC) Lansing (used to come in now and then via tropo skip when in analog format...)
WJRT-DT 12 (NBC) Flint (ok, this is a long-shot, but it might be grabbable)
WEWS-DT 15 (ABC) Cleveland (this seems to pop up pretty often with even the slightest of tropo)
WKYC-DT 17 (NBC) Cleveland (see note on WEWS-DT, though it does have a big orange attenuator/muffler on its northern side to limit the amount of signal bleeding into canada...stupid CRTC...)
WVIZ-DT 25 (PBS) Cleveland (this used to come in CONSTANTLY, but barely... you might be able to get this until CHWI moves to 25... though the muffler on the WKYC-WVIZ tower might harm it)
WBGU-DT 27 (PBS) Bowling Green (some people in the southern portions of the detroit-windsor areas have managed to pull this station in...)
WEYI-DT 30 (NBC) Flint (also picks up WBSF-DT on its subchannel, so it saves you from co-channel with WUPW, since both are on 46! it's like 3-for-1!)
WLNS-DT 36 (CBS) Lansing (this one tends to roll in real easily with the lighest of tropo activity... if you're *really* high up on an apartment, you might even get this regularly!)
CBLN-TV 40 (CBC) London (used to have severe co-channel between WLMB-TV and CBLN.... now, no obstructions!)
WKAR-DT 40 (PBS) Lansing (not sure how realistic this is, but it might show up on tropo)
CBLFT-TV-17 68 (SRC) Sarnia (i've picked this up a few times, but i think it's since moved to 17...)
CFMT-TV-2 69 (OMNI.1) London (i've picked up this powerhouse now and then at night... 1 MW of power!)
WSYM-DT 38 (FOX) Lansing (i managed to snag this one in analog form when it was on 47...)

I am on the 3rd floor of my 4 floor building. I am pointing Northeast right now and I have the CM 4228 setup in the bedroom since I didn't want to have to mount it outside now that I don't have DHC'er Yammon anymore to help me out. Ill point it southwest inside and see if it changes anything, would be nice to also get the Toledo stations. You think I should do it with or without the preamp? You think I need to go outside?

I was wondering if someone could suggest a pre-amp for me to purchase. I'm leaning toward a Channel Master or Kitz-Tech coax powered. I live in Lasalle ON (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8ecd1011f0aeae)

I'm using a modded CM4228-hd mounted on the roof approx 25 ft above the ground with a straight run of 75ft of rg-6 directly to the tuner. By looking at my receiver I'm getting all the local channels at 80-100% but would like to get more :)

As an example I'm currently receiving channel 11 from Toledo at 50% but only getting channel 13 at 0-10%. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I've ordered 2 CM-94444 baluns and a CM-3212 splitter to see if that helps.

Hey Alebowgm
I'm in Lasalle with a 4228hd mounted on my roof with no pre-amp and I get channel 31 at 100%. Maybe I'm lucky? I point pretty much west.

@Phil81

Do you know if CBET 9 in analog is using the same directional pattern (no signal to the South) that is shown for the planned channel 9 digital operation?

Believe it or not, the USA databases (which plot Canadian stations in the border zone) still show CBET at 325 kW from the long-dismantled Riverside Drive wavestack. FWIW, may CBC relayers are shown by their former private ownership call signs (e.g. CFSS instead of CBKT-7) as well.

I might mention that CBET's analog signal, though watchable (both its picture and much of the content) is weaker in Temperance (Southeast corner of Michigan) than one would expect.

Hi all,

alebowgm - Not sure of a repair shop for those in the area, sorry. Maybe Lighthouse on Tecumseh if it's still open? You should probably ask that question in this forum:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164

...and welcome to Windsor!

Snoopd - I was getting 31 no problem when my antenna was facing almost due west. Since then i rotated and fixed it back towards southfield, and 31 no longer comes in.

USA_CBC - I was fooled by the tvfool's CBC tower location too. I couldn't understand why my signal was so weak when i was basically standing right next to it...duh. I probably shouldn't admit that.

RingTail - I only wish I could produce that list!

Also, if anyone can help out with tv tuner setup's, i've got a message posted over here asking some questions:
:confused:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42094&page=33

Thanks again guys, have fun.
kls.

@Phil81

Do you know if CBET 9 in analog is using the same directional pattern (no signal to the South) that is shown for the planned channel 9 digital operation?

Believe it or not, the USA databases (which plot Canadian stations in the border zone) still show CBET at 325 kW from the long-dismantled Riverside Drive wavestack. FWIW, may CBC relayers are shown by their former private ownership call signs (e.g. CFSS instead of CBKT-7) as well.

I might mention that CBET's analog signal, though watchable (both its picture and much of the content) is weaker in Temperance (Southeast corner of Michigan) than one would expect.Not quite sure about the possible directional pattern they might use on digital 9. They have a allotment for 26kW on ch 9 in 2011. Currently they are at analog 201kW at 186m height (taken from this accurate database courtesy of Stampeder) http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/ON.html. though some tweaking and ironing are still possible for HAAT and ERP power/directional antenna by the transition date.

I don't recall them having to really protect other adj channels as of right now, though WUDT Detroit has a future digital plans on RF8.

Temperance is a good distance away from McGregor (30-35mi SW) but not enough to trash the reception. They must be using some sort of weak directional pattern to the south currently. I remember RingtailedFox mentioning something about protecting a LP to the south somewhere a while back but I can't remember what it was or if it still exists.

I do know that WLIO-DT NBC Lima is now on RF8 down in OH since Jun 12. Picked it up only two times with good tropo since then. Maybe this will force them to use/continue a directional patten to the south for digital.

that would be Findlay, Ohio's W09CG, a repeater of the Trinity Broadcast Network. CBET-TV has a VERY SLIGHT null to the southwest so it does not interfere with it, but it's omnidirecitonal otherwise. Until W09CK signed on, the signal was still receievable in Findlay, and was carried on basic cable (channel 59) on Time Warner, right next to Columbus, Ohio's WBNS-TV (CBS 10). CBET-TV was dropped in January of 2009.

Now, you're on the 3rd floor of your apartment and you face northeast... owch. you'll want to point NW towards Southfield for the detroit stations, but this could help you drag in CHCH-TV-2 from London (NE of you). this will also help you gain the toledo stations if you can say, mount a rooftop channelmaster near a SW corner or in a closet, but i'm not sure how effective it would be to have a giant metal antenna in the apartment. If you have to aim it west-enough though the window, you just might pick up WPXD. i have my antenna aimed NNE due to ghosting from a couple apartment buildings and the renaissance center reflecting the signals (the stations are NW of me), so i get WPXD literally PERPENDICULAR/ON THE SIDE of my thin square 4-bay bowtie UHF-only antenna. WPXD fades out now and then (along with WJBK-DT 7, since it's UHF-only), but they're both very watchable. I helped a friend in Farmington drag the station in, and it raised his hopes when he learned i was "10-15 miles east of him", becuase he could get WFUM-DT 28 out of northern oakland county, but not WPXD on 31 until then.

Toledo's stations and points south (such as the windsor locals from mcgregor) will be the biggest obstacle if you don't have a window or opening to aim an antenna through. If you have no other trees or buildings nearby on your south end, you might still get them through the walls (but slightly weaker from it). That'll probably knock out WNWO-DT on 49 (null towards detroit and windsor) for ya, sadly.

if your rooftop antenna currently works well-enough in the bedroom, don't fix what isn't broken! Just try aiming your antenna in different directions.. you'll see what different stations you'll get.

From downtown Windsor, the directions are so:
N: CHWI-TV-60 (Victoria park place)
NNE: Mount Clemens, MI (WADL-DT)
NE: Sarnia/Oil Springs (CKCO-TV-3 42)
ENE: London (CFPL 10, CHCH-TV-2 51, CJMT-TV-2 20, CFMT-TV-2 69)
SE: Wheatley (CHWI-TV 16 and CIII-TV-22)
SSE: Windsor stations (CBET, CICO-TV-32, CBEFT)
SW: Toledo stations
W: Lansing stations, WPXD
NW: Detroit stations, WFUM-DT Flint (transmitter in northern oakland county)

In a worst-case scenario, i'd ask your landlord if you can mount it on the roof to improve signal reception if nothing else works.

I was wondering if someone could suggest a pre-amp for me to purchase. I'm leaning toward a Channel Master or Kitz-Tech coax powered. I live in Lasalle ONBe careful! Given that you are receiving so many stations in the 80% to 100% range on your tuner's meter, adding a preamp could cause overload problems and actually make things worse! :eek:

In cases like yours, in which certain desired stations need boosting while others are already very strong, the answer is to leave your present antenna(s) as they are but also install a highly directional Yagi pointed directly at the weak stations and joined with your present antenna(s) accordingly, as in Post #16 of the OTA FAQ. I recommend a 91XG aimed at Channel 19 (remaps to 13) in Toledo.

This thread is currently discussing the same situation faced by people in Hamilton, ON with certain weaker stations and a nearby powerful one:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=112531

Be aware that this is not a simple thing to get working properly, and again you would not try this with a preamp at first.

i thought WTVG-DT moved back to 13 already.... did they decide to stay on 19? (if so, what flickers am i getting on 13 in digital? WZZM Grand Rapids?

Ringtail: WTVG-DT is on 13.

Stampeder: Thanks for the advice.

Stampeder
I was hoping to find a spot where I get all Detroit and Toledo stations to lock but some would be fading in and out (I think I've noticed that hapenning in earlier testing but I'm assuming some the Detroit ones would still be pretty strong). I'm also planning on splitting the coax into 3 as soon as it enters the house in order to feed 3 tvs. The furthest TV would have a total run of 125 feet or so. Would a preamp still be a bad idea?

the channels you guys got locks on are WIVB-DT 39 (CBS Buffalo) and WDIV-DT 45 (NBC Detroit).

I'm also wondering if a mere attic antenna installation would be enough to get the toledo stations along with detroit.

Ringtailed:

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get almost all of the uhf digital stations from Detroit with a short piece of wire inserted into the coax terminal on your TV/box. At least you would have a zero chance of overload lol.

An attic would be no problem for all the Detroit stations even WJBK. For Toledo possibilities the antenna would have to be aimed at them. You might get lucky because the locals are so strong it might not matter where the antenna is pointed to keep getting them.

I'm still very 'green' with OTA, so please bare with me if you can.

stampedr confirmed I have a Delphi antenna which appears to be quite good. I have a DTVPal DVR in place now, which is working better than I could have ever imagined. The home had an older CM dial type rotor, which I've just replaced for a CM-9537 model. I installed the 9537, pressed the sync button and it did it's thing. I then proceeded to type in 090 which I assume is East. I went outside and looked at the antenna, and it appears to be facing due West. When I enter 270 into the 9537 and go outside, it appears the antenna is facing due West. I confirmed this by looking at my TVFool print out, locating a station, entering in the Azimuth and I was unable to get a picture. In this case I entered 274 to pull in PBS Detroit. So I decided to enter 94 instead, the station came in nice and clear with a strong signal. So it definitely appears something is out of order.

Can anyone please suggest any additional troubleshooting, or remedy steps
I should follow in correcting my coordinates issue?

Thanks so much!