Don't get me wrong, I'm all for choice. I would like nothing more then to be able to get HDNet, but I will not break the law to do so.

Think about this for a sec. Watching tv is illegal. Say it again. Watching tv is illegal.

Welcome to Canada.

BTW, HDNET is pretty darn good, especially that game that's called HOCKEY. I think they might play it in Canada, so i'm told.

Ah, the age old US dish debate. I never seem to tire of it all...



I bought DTV from a sat dealer here in Canada in 1996. I paid both GST and PST on my dish. The gov't didn't seem to mind taking my money then.

Now, even though my family subs to one of the highest packages on BEV, continuing to sub to DTV is illegal. I just don't agree with that.

As for James' comment above, try explaining to someone in the US that up here in Canada, it is perfectly legal to gamble on sporting events at any 7-11 with a lottery terminal, yet watching HBO is a crime. Or, perhaps in the future, that up in the Great White North, a person may be able to smoke a joint in his basement without being a criminal. However, if he were to do so while watching ESPN, he would be a criminal.

Bizarre....

travisc,
Yes I do, I have had a Starchoice sub for 4 years and a BEV for 2. I don't even have a US dish but am seriously thinking of getting one.

Will you pay for your programming if you get a US dish (and I'm not talking about paying a dealer for scripts)?

I would if it was possible but that isn't an option.

Hey guy...there is not any idea of option except whether you pay or whether don't. As you have said there for you is no option. That is not true. If you were at least a little bit concerned you would do what grey marketers used to do for years...get a US PO box and actually pay for the service. But since you say that is not an option it is clear that the only reason that you would get DirecTV is to get free satellite TV. That is theft. There are no if's, and's, or but's about it. Since you haven't done it yet you have to make a conscience decision...do I steal? Am I a thief? Do I care?

But, if you have a conscience, and that is iffy at this point, then you buy a legitimate Canadian service, pay for what you consume, and don't have to show your kids that theft is a fact of life for 700,000 homes.

Regarding the other issues that have been brought up in the past few postings I am aiming toward giving up.

This has ZERO to do with censorship! It is all about copyright infringement! Don't try to justify your actions with this c**p about how the government is trying to prevent you from having a free choice of programming because that is a load of bull. All you want is free TV and you are going to get it come hell or high water. You don't give a rat's a** about the victims of your actions.

This is why I have, in the past few weeks, been on the case of several MP's and Industry Canada and the PMO to get the government position to start changing and to go after the end-users and to throw them in jail where they belong. I am expecting a call-back incidentally from a division of Industry Canada within days. I am also setting up meetings with local MP's. The government's only crime is worrying about losing the voters in those 700,000 homes. They have to start worrying about the tax dollars and the effects on the community if they don't act. Not doing anything except going after dealers is like saying to most people that "if I get a DTV system and do my own card programming then no one is going to come and drag my a** to jail". That is not right even in a "free and just society".

And I need to add that it would be a major help in the fight if Bell ExpressVu, Star Choice, Rogers Communications, Videotron, Shaw Communications, Eastlink Communications, Cogeco, etc. started sueing all of the DTV owners in Canada that they can get addresses of. DirecTV is doing this in the US and is having marvellous success. The addresses and names should be relatively easy to get from all of the records they have collected from the dealers that they have charged. It is just a matter of "following the bouncing ball".

Do you work for Bell?

The answer to this question is a strong "NO!" I am a private citizen with no ties to the broadcasting industry except that I was a DJ at a campus radio station in the 70's.

Actually, I am in sales for a small agency that reps for a multi-national.

I always love the "logic" that comes from people who steal or break the law. Keep your equipment for all I care, but if you get caught/fined/thrown in jail or ECM'd, you have no right to complain. You do have the right to attempt to change the government, but even that won't change the Supreme Court ruling...

Badboy,

I am sure that you are aware of this already, but simply having a DTV system in your home is illegal. Therefore, if a person were to use a US address to sub, they would still be breaking the law.

For me, this whole arguement IS about choice. As mentioned before, we give BEV a ton of money each month, but my wife and I are more than willing to pay even more to get access to HBO, etc. However, despite the fact that we are supporting the Canadian industry as much as we can, subbing to DTV would make us criminals.

Well, enough of this. I'm just looking forward to watching (and paying for) beautiful NFL HDTV goodness on my BEV 6000 this weekend.

Darth, I was trying to make a point that there is no grey market left in Canada to speak of. Everyone is hacking their systems. It is too easy. Therefore this is about "free TV" vs. "subscription TV".

I am just so sick and tired with these people who give excuse after excuse to try to justify their stealing. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR STEALING...ONLY FINES AND JAILTIME AND LAWSUITS! If you think the lawsuits aren't coming think again. The federal government is actually going to make it easier for Canadian and US companies to sue to recoup their estimated losses. So you might get a fine of $25,000 plus a lawsuit of another $25,000 plus you may lose your house, car, etc. plus be thrown in jail. Combine that with the lawsuits coming to a home near you for illegal downloading. Gee, aren't property rights grand!

I am wondering how many people would turn in their neighbours to tip lines if the price was right?

hey bad boy when you were a DJ did you use the originals or did you ever made a copy of a song to a friend or for profit?

I am sure that you are aware of this already, but simply having a DTV system in your home is illegal.


I don't agree with this quote at all. The last i checked you can still legally bring in receivers across the border. Pay the taxes and off you go.

hey bad boy when you were a DJ did you use the originals or did you ever made a copy of a song to a friend or for profit?

It was back in the early 70's long before anyone ever thought of the Internet let alone making CD's. Back then the best one could do was to copy songs onto reel-to-reel tape but it was a long arduous process and, therefore, was rarely done except for a very few ardent collectors who could afford the $thousands for the equipment.

In 1972 I bought my first cassette deck. I made cassettes of my favourite LPs so that I could listen to my favourite songs many times without "damaging" the vinyl. The deck was a Sony TC-127.

It certainly was possible to make illegal copies at the time but few had the equipment or the time. I also borrowed some LPs from friends to make recordings from the original (this is still legal - making a copy of an original for personal use - only copies of copies are illegal)

1976 I upgraded to a Dolby Cassette deck and have continued to make cassettes for personal use - mostly for a variety of cars ever since, which had cassette decks but no CD players, partly due to their age. I've upgraded to better decks as time passed.

In 1977 I also purchased a reel to reel deck (Akai GX630D) that I used for higher quality recordings and for "collections" of songs that could be used at parties. It also made it possible to record songs from the radio and then dub onto cassette. The quality wasn't as good and it was time-consuming. It was also illegal and I stopped it.

It's illegal to copy a movie from the tv and they have been making VCR's for decades.

TV is actually considered "an original" and provided you use it for personal use, there's nothing wrong with using a VCR to make a copy for yourself.

Recent rulings in the US also "enshrine" the rights of "personal use" recordings of HD material (rights to use). The only caveat was certain PPV/VOD stuff, which will be allowed to have flags to prevent recording.

I guess we're getting a bit off topic....

a lot of thing we have done in life are ilegal and a lot of companies let people go a lot are losing money but most of them fix the problem by giving a better service or offering a better product.Bell rather to cry in public and insult all those that don't buy there product a hope to get some sympathy and get the goverment to force people to suscribe to them.

a lot of thing we have done in life are ilegal and a lot of companies let people go a lot are losing money but most of them fix the problem by giving a better service or offering a better product.Bell rather to cry in public and insult all those that don't buy there product a hope to get some sympathy and get the goverment to force people to suscribe to them.

So you would then place the onus on providers of a product to continuously upgrade their security or suffer the consequences? That's ridiculous. So if someone comes up with an easy way to break into a bank vault and steal the money therein, that's okay? "Hey, nice work, fella. Enjoy your money. I'm going to go build a better vault."

I think your desire to blame all of this on Bell is clouding your judgment.