OPP were around way earlier than '84.
Yes, this we all know. We were talking about when they took over some RCMP responsibility.

On October 13, 1909, a provincial Order-in-Council decreed the establishment of the "Ontario Provincial Police Force" - a permanent force of salaried police constables.

"The theft of satellite subscription programming signals impacts directly
upon the economy of the industry, resulting in lost jobs, higher fees for
legitimate paying customers and loss of royalties to the artists," stated
Insp. Goulet, Officer in Charge, Greater Toronto Area Federal Enforcement
Section.

Jeeze, where is my shovel, it is getting pretty deep in here!

Ok, they have to be talking about theft of Express Vu and * Choice: lost jobs? Exactly how many jobs are generated from Direct and Dish in Canada?
Higher fees...good one since neither Dish or Direct can charge for their services in Canada.

Of course, if the naive argument is made that if all the Direct and Dish users had their systems confiscated they would see the light and get Express Vu - I don't think so! :roll:

Hmmm....I guess then the RCMP have rounded up all the petaphiles they were handed in a silver platter by the FBI some months ago???????

:

First off ,it is stealing TV we are talking of, free TV has little impact on the domestic industry.
Second off, The RCMP onlt deal with federal crimes (as satellite TV theft falls under their jurisdiction), and except for the provinces where they are the primary police force,
the fact that the RCMP is going afte TV theives, as little impact on the crimes and crime prevention that local police forces embark upon.

That is just WRONG.

First off, the result of "stealing" the signal is Free TV. It has little impact on anything except Bell's bottom line, as the industry is regulated. If Bell want to police the piracy, I'm all for it! Bell SHOULD stop the piracy. The POINT (which you missed) is that WE should not be paying for the policing of a private companies service through our tax dollars, via RCMP or anything else.

Second... to suggest the RCMP doesn't have anything better to do than track down people with FREE TV is ludicrous. Their OWN WEB SITE says their priorities are Organized Crime, Terrorism, International Policing, and Aboriginal Communities. They are also responsible for Border Integrity, Drug Enforcement, Proceeds of Crime, Econimic Crime, and Criminal Intelligence, Smuggling, Costal Enforcement and Imigration Enforcement.

Being in the GTA, having the RCMP wasting resources on Free TV DOES have a direct impact on my local crime prevention, being that much of the above mentioned crime is run out of our major cities, generally in the form of many small crimes.

Yes, it is a crime... so is speeding, so is J-walking. That being said, while the RCMP is running around busting guys for selling piracy gear, there are Organize Crime rings smuggling teenaged women into Canada for prostitution. There are ships dropping hundreds of immigrants off our coast. There are drugs and guns being smuggled in every direction, and from the RCMP's own words, there are terrorist activities going on here.... but lets stop the free TV.

Anyway... the discussion seems moot. Some people seem to think it's not a waste of money, I happen to believe it is a HUGE waste of money. It's not a question of it being a crime... it is. It's a question of priorities.

-Mike

Since Bell is crying about lost revenue then THEY and THEY alone should be the ones doing something about it. Directv is going after users through the civil courts(not criminal) . They are basically using the same approach as the music industry.

Leave the police out of this and handle the matter yourself.

Long before April 2002, the RCMP has gone out of there way to assist Bell Canada. I'm sure that the government made sure that the RCMP was available to assist Bell.

I know you have all heard this before and I am rather sick of it myself. But the situation is this...

a) The problem is not going away until the Feds go after the end-users
b) This is not, as several of you suggest, a victimless crime
c) Is it right that we teach our kids that stealing is OK just because the police are themselves handcuffed?

Let's face it. The issue here is that we are talking free TV vs. not-free TV. Is this costing jobs? Eastlink is cancelling their expansion plans in Nova Scotia. Why? You ask? They can't compete with "free".

People who are still paying for their legit Canadian services are paying more to get less as neither Star Choice or Bell ExpressVu are making money. Why? You ask? Because 400,000 to 700,000 homes in Canada are watching free tv.

The local Blockbuster is paying a price too. Are all these people who are getting free pay-per-view going to rent videos? Get serious!

And obvioiusly none of you are actually in the broadcasting industry or are a struggling artist. Free TV has cut budgets to the bone. No extra jobs there.

I just know I can sleep at night. And my kid isn't seeing his parents stealing.

Boy this thread is getting ridiculous! Time to upset some people ... I am sure that this will not change the mends of real thieves but....

Same argument from stealing CD music, hacking sat, burning DVD's, and (hopefully soon) HD-DVD's.

No one's getting hurt..... no one's losing jobs ..... police have better things to do that pick on the little guys ...... Bell is a big company, they won't miss my money ..... Bell is too big, I hate them, I never going to give them my money ..... etc etc etc

Here are some situation's you need to ask yourself.....

If I go to a music store and steal a CD, should I be charged with shoplifting? If you answer YES, are you downloading the same music?

If I go to WalMart or FS and steal a DVD, should I be charged with shoplifting? If you answer YES, are you burning your DVD copies?

Next time your wallet/purse gets stolen, maybe the police will be too busy with "more important" stuff then to answer your call for help.

If I run a wire from the cable box outside to get free cable, it is stealing?

Is hacking a sat reciever any different?

Is it a matter of what is right and what is wrong. If you cannot afford to buy that CD's or DVD's or Sat dish service, are you still entitled to have it by illegal means (I sure do like that Porche down the road from me).

These are not survival or necessary item. They are luxury items. Not food, water, clothes, or housing. So guys, start doing the "right thing" and start seeing your own arguments for stealing as the horse sh!t it really is.

Maybe the message is getting across at last. There has not been a response in almost 12 hours.

And maybe they don't want to teach their children that:
theft is right...
down with Ma Bell...
down with Rogers (or Shaw or Eastlink or Cogeco etc.)...
down with Sheila Copps (although it is really Allan Rock that they should be concerned with)...
free TV lives...
to hell with everybody else...
long as they don't take my job or put me in jail or fine me $10,000 (which is going up by several times with changes to the legislation)...

Then again they might just be sleeping...

Arresting people is one thing (they are always big noise about it from Bell)
but they have to go to trial,they may be inocent they may win,then it will be a lost of time and money for the rcmp.I mean Incredible Electronic has been charge numerous time, most of them have been well advertise by Bell but they prove the judge they were not gilty of the charge and bell and the rcmp have to return all the products confiscated to Incredible.

Obviously, you are totally missing the point that is being made. I will try again to make it as clear as glass...there is NO EXCUSE for stealing satellite. I believe that those who are should be severely punished. The rules of evidence should be the same as with a radar detector...you have it set up...you're guilty...and in some cases all you have to do is have it. There is no legal use for a DirecTV or non-ExpressVu Dish Network system in Canada. Therefore anyone with those systems should be hung out to dry...

Enuf said...

Directv and Dish Network owners can use HD receivers to pull in OTA HD signals. Seem like a legit reason to own one and certainly not illegal for this purpose.

Obviously, you are totally missing the point that is being made. I will try again to make it as clear as glass...there is NO EXCUSE for stealing satellite. I believe that those who are should be severely punished. The rules of evidence should be the same as with a radar detector...you have it set up...you're guilty...and in some cases all you have to do is have it. There is no legal use for a DirecTV or non-ExpressVu Dish Network system in Canada. Therefore anyone with those systems should be hung out to dry...

Enuf said...

No non-use for DirecTv? To me it's freedom. I can sit on a curb and pass out communism literature praising Kim-Il Jung can't I? Yes I can, will I go to jail...nope.

Does Bell think that if 750,000 some odd DirecTv homes in Canada are given a letter that they will run to them. Ya right.

I'm NEVER taking down my dish. Sorry.

How come Cogeco in Windsor doesn't run to the RCMP about thousands upon thousands of antennas on the roofs? Those signals freely pass over my roof. Why are they accepted?

No non-use for DirecTv? To me it's freedom. I can sit on a curb and pass out communism literature praising Kim-Il Jung can't I? Yes I can, will I go to jail...nope.

Does Bell think that if 750,000 some odd DirecTv homes in Canada are given a letter that they will run to them. Ya right.

I'm NEVER taking down my dish. Sorry.

How come Cogeco in Windsor doesn't run to the RCMP about thousands upon thousands of antennas on the roofs? Those signals freely pass over my roof. Why are they accepted?

Another non-believer...

You are Canadian I assume. In Canada, as in all other civilized countries, we have a Supreme Court which is totally independent from the government. Their job is to decide on or clarify legal issues and to protect the rights and freedoms of all Canadians. The Supreme Court of Canada has stated that the Radiocommunication Act as it stands is the law and fully enforceable.

What you are doing is trampling on the rights of other Canadians. You are also costing jobs to other Canadians. Canadian satellite and cable companies are cancelling or drastically cutting back expansion of services...bye - bye related jobs (Eastlink is the latest victim...try to get expanded service outside of the cities of Nova Scotia...). Video stores aren't renting or selling videos to 700,000 homes...guesss what?...lost jobs. Honest electronics stores that only sell legal systems aren't selling product to 700,000 homes...guess what?...lost jobs. Canadian TV stations have a reduced audience of 700,000 homes or about 10% of the population of the country...guess what?...lower ad revenues...lost jobs. All these jobs are being lost because no one can compete with "free".

Then there are our children who are being taught by our parents that it is OK to steal if you don't agree how the product is packaged and don't want to pay for it anyway. Great lesson to teach children now isn't it?

Stealing satellite may be all fine and dandy to you because you are laughing at the rest of the honest world who pay for their services. Soon the joke will be on you.

As for the final question...which has been gone over ad infinitum...there is free OTA television service (ad supported) which one gets by putting up an antenna. Then there are encrypted broadcasts which are by law solely intended for a paying audience. Breaking that encryption, regardless of how easy it is, without the authorization of the provider is theft and under Canadian law (which at this time is under revision to further strengthen penalties as announced on September 5th) is subject to jail time and/or fines of up to $5000 per day. It is no different than jimmying the lock on your neighbour's house and walking off with whatever you wanted. Wouldn't your neighbour be happy?

How about I come over to your house and take your car and not pay for its use? What's the difference?

Presently, the federal government is solely going after dealers. But pressure is afoot. The Canadian economy is losing $500 million to $1 billion a year at least. The governments are losing another minimum of $75 million to $150 million in taxes every year. If you think that they are going to keep losing that kind of cash you are totally mistaken. Will that kind of money pay for the enforcement?...Damn right it will!

What you might start getting before the RCMP come to your door are lawsuits from Canadian suppliers just as DirecTv is suing thousands of people in the US. Won't you enjoy that...? Will you be snickering then?

Why didn't the Supreme Court of Canada protect MY freedom to watch friggin FOXNEWS...lmao, give me a break bud.

Put that on a vote and ask how many people in this country are ready and willing to pay Canadian currency for there DirecTv. Why aren't they allowed to broadcast over here? Culture...hell no and you know better.

Maybe peeps like me don't like it when a company *cough* Bell/BCE et al rams it up my wazzu and tells me I'm a bad boy.

I guess you like it though. Not me, and I wont stand for it. Like I said I ain't taking down my dish no matter who's job it costs.

And please about video stores not renting to 700, 000 homes, who's to say that they ALL watch movies every second of they day. Blockbuster will cut jobs even if there rolling the cash from 10 million homes renting from them. LOL.

Honest stores not selling BEV/SC cause of 700,000 US dishes...LOl...like I said put it to a vote and if DirecTv were allowed to sell here those little stores would be rolling in it.

10% of homes are not watching Canadian TV...Lol, I guess 700,000 homes just don't LLIKE CANADIAN TV and want a CHOICE...god forbid though.

You think I'm gonna get a letter sent to my house saying "take down your dish" LMAO!!!

Listen man I'll keep watching my DirecTv and you can watch what ever it is you watch. No matter what kind of spin BELL tells me I don't buy it come to think of it I never will. No punn intended.

It's not about stealing satellite, it's about getting the programming I want and not having it censored from me.
If they want more people to watch BEV they better start providing the same channels that are available on DISH or Direct TV. I don't care about lost jobs, that is their problem. Every company has to lay people off if they don't provide the services people want.

Ya, some just can't see that theres a huge market for "other" programming. Theres a market and people really want it.

Guys, keep it civil.

To put my two cents:

For the most part, I agree with Badboy.

For one thing Buritto, it's not just the CRTC that forbids DirectTV and Dish from doing business here, but the FCC in the States.

But the fact is, that DirectTV and Dish Network are illegal in this country as of this moment. As is pirating of any system. You may not agree with it, but if you do any of this, you are breaking the law. Period.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for choice. I would like nothing more then to be able to get HDNet, but I will not break the law to do so.

That's how I feel, and now I will slowly back away from this thread. :)

You think I'm gonna get a letter sent to my house saying "take down your dish" LMAO!!!

Is that like "they can take my gun from my cold dead hand" :lol:



I don't care about lost jobs, that is their problem

I hope it will not be your job, then you might care!

It's not about stealing satellite, it's about getting the programming I want and not having it censored from me.
If they want more people to watch BEV they better start providing the same channels that are available on DISH or Direct TV. I don't care about lost jobs, that is their problem. Every company has to lay people off if they don't provide the services people want.

Do you pay for your programming?

There are at least as many grey market receivers in the states watching BEV as there is people in Canada watching Dish or Direct TV. The thing that is different is that BEV is knowingly supplying dealers that sell to to the US and sell subscriptions with Canadaian addresses. I will find a link to the article I read.