: Split from 1080i vs 1080p Upgrade Thread


TheTechV
2008-01-30, 12:27 PM
Newbie here....(hopefully this post is in the right forum thread)

I am a recent owner of a PS3, and have found my movie collection of Blu-Ray movies increasing, picture quality looks fabulous on my Toshiba DLP 52HM84, however its only 720p/1080i HDTV, which I got over 4 years ago. My question to you all is, am I missing out on the new "1080p" wave of Full HDTV LCD/Plasma's. I am thinking of buying another TV for the household, and don't want to blow my budget, since I already have a solid DLP TV. I am looking at the Samsung LCD LNT4061, which comes with all the bells and whistles. (3HDMI slots 1080p resolution, USB ports), etc.....

Is this a worthy upgrade for me? or should I stand pat, and wait tell the newer technology comes out, but at the speed of tech, that is probably pointless. You know what I mean?

Basically, am I going to notice my Blu-Ray Movies, in better picture quality if I go with this upgrade. I know there are better LCD's out there then this Samsung, but its on Sale, and the size (40") is just about right for my room conditions.

Thanks again, love the site......any info would greatly be appreciated.
There is a difference between 1080p and 1080i in certain condition.

When you have fast-pace action on your screen. The 1080p is much
better for refreshing image (more image per second) in those condition
and gives you better result naturally. Its the case with sports like
hockey just to mention an example. Also, Plasma is better than ACL or
LCD when the size of your TV is more than 40. Else, under 40 it is ACL
or LCD that are better.

Note that many digital box or digital decoder don't support 1080p as
of now but I guess more will in the future. It might be the case also
for othe equipment you use connected on your HDTV so verify that
too.

Hope it answer your question and it will ease your choice.

hugh
2008-01-30, 01:01 PM
When you have fast-pace action on your screen. The 1080p is much
better for refreshing image (more image per second) in those condition
and gives you better result naturally.

I'm sorry but I don't agree and I am curious where you heard that?

[CaM]Spoon
2008-01-30, 01:04 PM
Theres nothing broadcast in 1080 p anyway. So your not watching no hockey in 1080p. I have the 46hmx85 Toshiba and I cant stand it anymore. Its not a clear image and the color wheel hums like a helicopter. Its time for that beast to go.

I agree that you wont like playing on a smaller screen especially if your playing video games.

BCScott
2008-01-30, 01:09 PM
Note that many digital box or digital decoder don't support 1080p as
of now but I guess more will in the future.


I don't think I've ever seen anyone speculate that there will be any 1080P broadcasts anytime soon. Too much bandwidth.

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:00 PM
First, what i'm saying is the image refresh rate per second
is higher in the progressive mode 1080p then in the
interlaced mode 1080i. Too me, that means if there is
more images per second, the movement might be more
natural in fast-pace action if the HDTV Software is good.

Second, you have less chance to see image problem on
rare occasion (loss of packet) with 1080p then 1080i.

Third, HDTV who support 1080p ALSO support 1080i
because 1080i was the first and it is the most common
standard in HD.

I didn't say you have to get 1080p absolutely. I just gave
you an explanation between the two.

Is it worth it ? I never gives my opinion on that matter cause
I let people decide about their needs and priority in life.

I won't tell you my exact source but I have a diploma in
university computing and more than 10 years in television
and I read a lot over the internet about enginering and
manufacturer.

You can disagree on what i'm writing. I'm just trying to
make people understand more about some facts. I can
make mistake too, i'm human and I hope people will write
and say why they disagree so that I can learn something.

My first language is french and I will write on both side
english or french but maybe not the same fact translated.

Have a good Super Bowl !

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:04 PM
By the way, you don't have to believe what I write for granted.

do your verification over the internet,

Google: Interlaced Progressive Difference

then check a few sites which comes from manufacturer

hugh
2008-01-30, 02:11 PM
TheTechV, you are confusing the broadcast resolution with the native resolution of the panel.

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:13 PM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone speculate that there will be any 1080P broadcasts anytime soon. Too much bandwidth.
Right now, you have optical fiber and coax, or satellite and coax
but what if you got FULL OPTICAL and no coax linked to your
digital box. Will it be possible ?

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:25 PM
TheTechV, you are confusing the broadcast resolution with the native resolution of the panel.
Let me verify with you if I'm wrong. The broadcast resolution is the format of the program that is brodcast over cable or satellite and the native resolution of the TV is resolution mode to display the broadcast. Between the two you have the digital boxes
or decoder and there is a software in it and the software can do things.

Is it right ?

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:27 PM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone speculate that there will be any 1080P broadcasts anytime soon. Too much bandwidth.
BDP9000 Blu-ray Disc player
Watch movies in the highest picture quality available for your HDTV
The BDP9000 Blu-ray Disc player offers full high-definition video playback up to 1080p
resolution for an amazing viewing experience. A highly detailed picture and increased
sharpness delivers a more true-to-life picture.

What about Blu-Ray fast movie action ?

fredbalsdon
2008-01-30, 02:35 PM
I am holding off on 1080p tell the next gen dvd war is over i dont want to buy one of the next gen dvd players and the one i buy the decide not to make dvds for it.

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:39 PM
Confusing broadcast and native ???????????

Why do you say that ?

Explain more to me cause I don't understand what
makes you think I'm confused.

Do you think I know nothing of what I'm writing
or I'm totally out of it. If you think, I'm out of it
fine, I will leave and you will never read me again.

What tomorrow will be made I don't know ?

When will we get full optical fiber up into our home
to get 1080p, I don't know ?

But, there is broadcast in 1080p with the Blu-Ray !

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 02:46 PM
I am holding off on 1080p tell the next gen dvd war is over i dont want to buy one of the next gen dvd players and the one i buy the decide not to make dvds for it.
Ok, it's your choice and I respect it !

As I wrote, I never suggest to buy something in
particular. I just explain the difference between
technology when I know it.

In my opinion, people are the best judge for
themselve to see if it's worth it or not.

Also, I will wrote advise on how to do things
when I see people having problem if I can help.

Go Giants Go ! Have a good Super Bowl.

I always like the Underdog ! They pay more !

hugh
2008-01-30, 02:52 PM
The broadcast resolution is the format of the program that is brodcast over cable or satellite and the native resolution of the TV is resolution mode to display the broadcast.

Yes, broadcast resolution is the resolution from the source and in North America it is always 720p or 1080i. HDM players can also output 1080p.

It is true that broadcasts in 1080i often leave motion artifacts hence why ABC and some networks chose to broadcast in 720p. The motion artifacts from a 1080i broadcast, however, will be visible on any television regardless of its native resolution.

Native resolution is the number of pixels on your television. A 720p television has 1280 x 720 pixels while a 1080p has 1920 x 1080 pixels. Of course there are other televisions with different number of pixels such as 1366 x 768 and so on.

Regardless, motion artifacts from the source, will be visible on all sets.


The amount of Motion tearing (aka image persistence or trails) on a display will be a function of the refresh rate of the panel. Interestingly, if you were to compare two panels with the same refresh rate, you will likely see more motion tearing on a panel with a higher native resolution. For this reason LCD manufacturers had to improve refresh rates and began flashing the backlight before coming out with higher resolution panels.

jvincent
2008-01-30, 03:10 PM
I'll throw another monkey wrench into the whole discussion, the source material.

For film based sources, i.e. all movies and the majority of TV shows, the source is actually 24 frames per second.

Let's assume for now that the film is telecined to a digital master at 1920x1080p. This means you now have 1080p24 source. Strangely enough this is exactly what BluRay and HD-DVD sources are. A 1080p display displays 60 frames per second which means that it needs to use a 3:2 frame cadence to align the 24 frame per second rate of the source to the 60 frame per second rate of the display. The result is 3:2 judder that some people are sensitive to.

The important thing to note is that a 1080i signal when properly de-interlaced delivers EXACTLY the same 24p signal and will be displayed the same way by a 1080p display.

The most notable difference between 1080i and 720p comes from live broadcasts, mostly sports. For 1080i there is a 60Hz FIELD rate. I.e. 1920x540 fields are captured and broadcast. They will need to be de-interlaced at the destination and when displayed on a progressive display this can lead to motion blur because it is now a 1920x1080p 30Hz FRAME signal.

This is different from a 1280x720p source in which the FRAME rate is 60Hz and there is no de-interlacing. The arguement is that because of the higher, progressive, frame rate there is less motion blur.

Arguements aside, I honestly can't say I've ever really noticed a difference between the two when watching live sports.

TheTechV
2008-01-30, 03:38 PM
There is enough information for everybody
to figure how it works and I have to leave for now.

The conclusion is progressive is better than
interlaced when working with broadcast, native,
decoder, etc... that can all work in progressive.

Go Giants Go !!!!

57
2008-01-30, 07:01 PM
The conclusion is progressive is better than interlaced when working with broadcast,If you're talking about the same resolution, yes, but if you're comparing 720P and 1080i, then the answer is "it depends". Here's the post discussing formats:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73528

jvincent also brought up a good point. We have already discussed native resolution, broadcast format, but there is also the "upstream" format of the original material. This is often 1080/24P as mentioned by jvincent, whether the broadcast format is 1080i or 720P, or for that matter sometimes 480i on SD channels.

What's upstream of the 1080/24P can either be a camera, a HDD, or even film, which is telecined to 1080/24P.

For the various broadcast formats, see:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76129

Then (not yet discussed) are the STB options in terms of formats.

SA STBs can be set to passthrough the format - so what comes in, goes out.

BEV STBs only have one output format, so people would typically choose 720P or 1080i, but BEV changes some 1080i to 720P.

The Motorola STBs used by Cogeco, Rogers Atlantic, etc have an option for passthrough of 480i, however, they only have one HD format - either 720P or 1080i.

*C and Shaw change 720P to 1080i.

There, now everything is clear as mud.