So will they be on VHF then since they're going to physical channel 7?
Yes. Actually, VHF-HI (channels 7..13) is prime real-estate for OTA TV. It gets more distance with less power than UHF, but doesn't have the consistent long-range co-channel interference problems that VHF-LO (channels 2..6) have. Also, while larger than their UHF equivalants, rooftop antennas aren't anywhere near as huge as for the VHF-LO range.

With my channel master 4228- since it's a decent vhf antenna- also I would guess even though it's advertised as mainly a uhf antenna.

With my channel master 4228- since it's a decent vhf antenna- also I would guess even though it's advertised as mainly a uhf antenna.
You may have problems. The 4221 (the 4-bay model) is OK for VHF-HI. The only suggestion I'll make is to sit tight, and wait till WNGS starts testing, and see how they come in, before spending any money on additional antennas.

The CM4228 is a very good VHF High antenna, so it should suffice.

This situation with WPXJ ch 51 out of Batavia was officially been settled last month I just discovered. Ch 23 will be used for their digital channel. It's explained further here;
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619606 WPXJ (TV), Batavia, NewYork (the“Station”), licensed to Paxson Buffalo License, Inc. (the
“Licensee”), will be constructing a new Channel 23 digital facility for post-transition operations.
The Station’s original separate digital allotment was on channel 53. The Station plans to use a new Channel 23 digital antenna for post-transition operation.I have to assume it will be at their current location outside of Batavia. Note that they will be going low power June of this year.
Also note the wording of the document that it reads "Terminate operations on channel 23". I hope WNLO knows about this. :o :rolleyes:

Ok, with that settled, how will that affect CITY ch.53? No reason to be directional anymore is there??

Videobruce I bet you won't see any change on city-dt until atleast 2011 when our analogs may go off.Their not going to remove the slight directionality to their antenna.

:( :( :mad: :mad:

But I will bet that WGRZ will want to continue saying '2 on your side' not '33 on your side'.
I think they all should just says something like NBC Buffalo WGRZ DT-33.
No confusion. If you want people to watch, they have to find you. Just another corp. gimmick type slogan. Dime a dozen. I'm sure they can come up with some other artsy-fartsy slogan to fill the void.

Amazing, they can change call letters with ownership changes will no issue, but they cry about loosing a silly number. If people can get use to call letter changes, they can get use to a simple number change. Also amazing, WNED doesn't think this is a problem with their smart choice not to use their old number.

Higher level of intelligence of their viewers I guess. ;)

Note that they will be going low power June of this year.
For clarity, this means the analog signal will drop to 50% power (3 dB down) to allow transmitter reconfiguration for digital. There is nothing about digital operation in 2008.

Also note the wording of the document that it reads "Terminate operations on channel 23". I hope WNLO knows about this. :o :rolleyes:
They should - it's February 17, 2009, the analog shutdown date.


Ok, with that settled, how will that affect CITY ch.53? No reason to be directional anymore is there??
City will still have to keep its signal out of the U.S. to avoid interfering with the channel 53 frequencies even though they are now licensed for purposes other than television broadcasting.

If Canada allows WPXJ to use 23 then will they remap to 51.With Wnlo calling themselves CW23.You manually enter digital 23 and get?This depends on the tuner.Remapping has got to go.

The best solution for all would be to eliminate the number thing altogether and map to the correct UHF channel number assigned.

If there was a sudden outbreak of common sense then that might happen! :D

My take is that in the 1990s U.S. broadcasters whined so much about losing their precious "number identities" that PSIP remapping was made part of the digital transition plan, so now they can't retreat from it. It was and is part of DTV, so we just have to deal with it as lowly consumers.

My take is that in the 1990s U.S. broadcasters whined so much about losing their precious "number identities" that PSIP remapping was made part of the digital transition plan, so now they can't retreat from it. It was and is part of DTV, so we just have to deal with it as lowly consumers.
When religious Americans in Buffalo punch in "23" wanting to get WPXJ, and get WNLO instead the FCC WILL respond to the howls of outrage from consumers. Generally, I don't think tuners are capable of handling it properly when the PSIP of one station is the same as the physical channel of another station..

I honestly DO NOT think it will be as big of an issue people are making it out to be. I'm SURE that WPXJ will probably virtually map to 51.1 and WNLO will virtually map to 23.1

City will still have to keep its signal out of the U.S. to avoid interfering with the channel 53 frequencies even though they are now licensed for purposes other than television broadcasting.Never thought about that.
When religious Americans in Buffalo punch in "23" wanting to get WPXJ, and get WNLO instead the FCC WILL respond to the howls of outrage from consumers. What does religion have to do with this?? Neither are 'holy roller' stations.

I thought Citytv was going to have to change their frequency? Same with Global which is on 65.1?

Never thought about that.
What does religion have to do with this?? Neither are 'holy roller' stations.
Seems to be part of its past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ION_Television#From_PAX_to_i but

I thought Citytv was going to have to change their frequency? Same with Global which is on 65.1?
Eventually all stations will have to move from channels 52 to 69 unless they are in areas with minimal spectrum congestion, meaning way up north. In Toronto, I speculate that the post analog shutoff assignments might be CBLT-20, CFTO-9, CICA-19, CBLFT-25, CIII-41, CJMT-44 and CFMT-47. CITY and CKXT will need completely new assignments.

... Generally, I don't think tuners are capable of handling it properly when the PSIP of one station is the same as the physical channel of another station..
I looked at the PSIP information on the ATSC site. If a manufacturer implements the virtual channel function correctly, it appears that both the major and minor channel number (ie. MAJOR.minor) must be entered on the remote to tune a digital channel, otherwise the set does not know which sub-channel to select if a multiplex of program services exist. Further, while not specifically stated, a channel number without a minor channel number is assumed to be an analog channel. Program guide information in PSIP on a digital channels can actually refer to programs carried on an analog channel.

I have a Sony HDTV. CBC-DT is on physical channel 20 in Toronto. If I tune channel 20 with the remote, I get snow. If I tune 20.1, I get a blank screen. If I tune 5.1, CBC Toronto's virtual channel number, I get CBC-HD. I think this is how virtual channels are supposed to work.

My TV 'knows' about channel 23 as an analog channel. After February 17, 2009, tuning to channel 23 should result in 'snow', or possibly reception of the digital channel with the virtual channel number displayed only the first time I tune the channel. In either case, I expect the tuner will record the virtual channel information and add it to the virtual channel list. After that, if I tune the XX.x virtual channel for WPXJ then I should get the digital channel. After Global get on air I will try tuning the station first using 65 and see how it responds.

Perhaps other readers could try the channel 20 and channel 20.1 test as noted above and report how their HDTV responds to help gather data.

My Samsung SIR-t451 set-top box tunes only digital channels. I have the antenna pass-through connected to my TV's antenna connection to receive analog signals.
The Samsung re-maps any channels that use the PSIP. I can press either 5 or 20 on my remote to receive CBC-HD. It displays on-screen as 5 only (not 20). Same for all re-mapped channels. The actual digital channel number is never displayed once it's in memory. The channel up\down button follows the re-mapped sequence as well.