sub $500? I thought players had to be $100 or $200 before people would buy?
They do, and that's the problem. I certainly won't buy a $500 hi-def player at this point, even if it is dual format, and I'm an early adopter. $299 for dual-format is OK for me, but for others the price point for any player will need to be much lower.

All of these posts about WB "doing the right thing" confuse me.
I think people are equating "doing the right thing" with "ending the format war early by going Blu exclusive" as opposed to dragging it on if they go HD DVD exclusive. No one knows what the full impact will be of Warner going exclusive one way or the other, if they choose to do so that is.

I don't get this HD-DVD mind set where they are loosing the war so the logical thing is every one should go neutral and if that happens every one will just suddenly abandon Blu-ray and claim alegance to HD-DVD. Manufacturers will have no issues with just scrapping their fab plants, consumers will happily trash their players including every PS3 ever sold. Business deals will easily be broken with no repercussions etc, etc.

By the same token, why would Warner going blue count as doing the right thing? (not that jvillian said it...but others have).

Why would fab plants be scrapped in a format neutral world? Wouldn't BD still be manufactured? Besides, DVD is still the biggest format, so there's plenty of DVD plants. Changing those over to HD-DVD is easier than changing them over to BD.

As for trashing PS3s, I thought they were game system first of all, with the bonus of playing BD. Given that stand-along player counts favour HD-DVD, seems to me that fewer players would be "trashed" if Warner went red.

Consequently, I'm just as confused as james99 about "do the right thing" equating to a Blue Warner.

"Do the right thing" in this context is just a ****** refrain IMO.

As far as Warner is concerned, to "Do the right thing" is to 1) Make as much money for themselves as possible, now, or in the future, and 2) Give themselves as much clout in hi-def media as possible.

They cost too much to build and can't compete with stand alone players + they are MUCH more likely to have issues. It's a wonder they are even manufactured at all. Dual format players are a very, VERY small niche within another very, VERY small niche -->

Your kidding right?

Plenty of DVD players happen to play CDs, SACDS, DVD-A's... Seems like a multiple format player to me. the price of all technology lowers with time. LG's first dual format blu-ray/HD DVD player was what? $1200? Samsung's new BD-UP5000 dual format player is $799 at msrp. You will most likely find it cheaper at many shops and it will drop in price.

we aren't talking about a dual format betamax/vhs or a dvd/vhs player. The technology for blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD is all quite similar.

Don't kid yourself, when this war ends, the winning format would be smart to incorporate reading the other's format in their player for the simple fact that many will have purchased movies on the loosing side. If this format war does ever end, which won't be anytime soon.

I don't think the studios really care about ending the format war. IF Warner chooses Blue or Red or remains purple, they are doing the right thing for themselves and their shareholders…. Making more money than if they chose one format over another, or both (or neither!). So does anyone on this forum have hard numbers about profitability/production unit, manufacturing yields, batch loss ratios, distribution and marketing cost ratios, etc. ? I work in an business environment where these are very important numbers, and in high volume manufacturing (millions of units), these actually drive the bottom line, and eventually the business decisions. I have seen a few numbers about increased manufacturing yields for Blu - expressed solely as a percentage without the actual production numbers to back it up. Why ??? For competitive reasons these numbers are guarded like gold bullion, and not available to competitors or speculating consumers.

So where is this "do the right thing" come from? It comes from disgruntled consumers (both Blue and Red) who can't get the movies they want to see on their choice of player (assuming that duel format consumers are in the minority).

IMHO, I am extremely certain that any studio, including Warner, will "do the right thing" for the company's profitability, not for the consumer, and whether consumer will be pi$$ed-off is of minor consequence. Consumers will forgive and forget when the studio puts out the next blockbuster.

As far as duel format players costing too much, Uhmm as far as I know, every Blu-Ray and HD DVD player on the market are duel format already: They also play SD DVD's - market adoption.

The technology for blu-ray, HD DVD, DVD is all quite similar.


NO. You must be the one that's kidding.
Do some research before posting please.

The technology for Blu-Ray and HD DVD is VERY different which is why they could not agree to merge into a single format in the first place.

Numerical aperture (NA)
Blu-Ray 0.85
HD DVD 0.65

Read power
Blu-Ray 0.35mW
HD DVD 0.50mW

Protection layer
Blu-Ray 0.1mm
HD DVD 0.6mm


The tickness of the protection layer (determining were the data is written on the disc) was the stickler that prevented one single merged format.


The price of all technology lowers with time

Patently false! Prices only fall if there is mass volume and there is only mass volume if there is interest. Since there is little or no interest in expensive dual format players... prices will never be what you can consider "cheap". Did D-VHS fall in price? Did Laserdisc fall in price? I rest my case.

P.S. The winning format incorporating the loser format in their player for the consummers that purchased movies from the other side? ROTFLMAO :D
Are you naive or something? The movie studios will get to do what they like doing best: double dipping, triple dipping quadruple dipping and so forth.

re: 99gecko comments
Exactly, and should a format prevail and gain complete dominance, that format will call it's player a blu-ray or HD DVD player, but it will very likely play the loosing player's discs.

If what analysts, professionals who disgruntled consumers like to discredit with baseless accusations, believe is true, this format war will extend into 2009 and maybe even 2010. By then, the adoption of a loosing format will be too high to dismiss completly. Brand-name electronic companies would be in fact loosing money not to play the loosing side's discs.

The outcome of this "war" will be very different from betamax vs VHS.

P.S. The winning format incorporating the loser format in their player for the consummers that purchased movies from the other side? ROTFLMAO
Are you naive or something? The movie studios will get to do what they like doing best: double dipping, triple dipping quadruple dipping and so forth.

I dislike arguing with people who are obviously very close minded. You happen to dismiss how come HD disc players (HD DVD and blu-ray) happen to play DVD's, CD's and in some cases DVD-A's and SACD's. These technologies are different, yet they are all closely related, they are all laser read digital discs.

The fact that Samsung and LG have managed to bring out dual format players speaks volumes, it can be done and the price is lowering considerable. You couldn't purchase a dedicated player for the price of these dual format players just 1 year ago.

The production companies may like double dipping, the brand-name electronic (pioneer, panasonic, samsung, sony, toshiba, etc...) companies want to appeal to as broad an arch of consumers as they can. They will all want to profit from consumers who heavily purchased from the "loosing" side. As prices for manufacturing the technology continue to lower, it will be a financially viable solution. Bugs will be worked out. Just look at all the hype surrounding Samsung's BD-UP5000.

NO. You must be the one that's kidding.
Do some research before posting please.

The technology for Blu-Ray and HD DVD is VERY different which is why they could not agree to merge into a single format in the first place.

Numerical aperture (NA)
Blu-Ray 0.85
HD DVD 0.65

Read power
Blu-Ray 0.35mW
HD DVD 0.50mW

Protection layer
Blu-Ray 0.1mm
HD DVD 0.6mm

The tickness of the protection layer (determining were the data is written on the disc) was the stickler that prevented one single merged format.
Combination Blu-ray/HD DVD optical pickups and combination chipsets already exist. You're about a year behind the times.

Combination Blu-ray/HD DVD optical pickups and combination chipsets already exist. You're about a year behind the times.

I did'nt say they did'nt exist. I'm simply saying that manufacturing a dual player costs more in both materials and royalties for very, VERY little payback in return. At this point in time (the early adoption phase), it makes sense to release dual players as there is currently a market for such high price players (even if it's a small one). The dual format player was always meant as a short term product, to milk more money out of enthousiasts while there are still two competing formats. It was never meant as a solution and never will it become the solution --> one format will emerge victorious... the same format that has won every single week in HDM movie sales.

P.S. The mass adoption phase only starts when there is a single format left which makes dual players completely irrelevant.

The technology for Blu-Ray and HD DVD is VERY different which is why they could not agree to merge into a single format in the first place.

True enough there's a physical layer difference. That said, it was nothing more than excuse for failing to hammer out a single format. Licensing revenues was the more likely stumbling block.

I don't think the studios really care about ending the format war. IF Warner chooses Blue or Red or remains purple, they are doing the right thing for themselves and their shareholders…. Making more money than if they chose one format over another, or both (or neither!).

Well... One of the theories flying around is they DO want to end the format war so that it ends the confusion that is stopping the masses from adopting HD as a format thereby enabling the studios to start getting people to re-purchase part of their DVD catalog in HD, an activity that is apparently very lucrative.

One of the ways to do that is for Warner to adopt Blu-Ray... This is where all of this is coming from.

I have both formats so ultimately I can get any title I want but I do care about the future of HD and I think that prolonging the war is going to send both formats into laserdisc land. I also happen to think that Warner adopting BD is the quickest way to end it.

My god, do you get paid by Sony or something to promote Blu Ray? Almost every single one of your comments takes a dig at HD DVD. I realize most people have some sort of a favorite, but do you really need to keep saying the same things over and over and over? "I love blu ray...hd dvd sucks. bla bla bla."

Not only is it old, it's confrontational and very rude. Many of us decided to buy HD DVD players and we are happy with our purchases. There is no need to stick your beliefs down our throats. It's no different than having some religious nutjob knocking on my door.

Well... One of the theories flying around is they DO want to end the format war so that it ends the confusion that is stopping the masses from adopting HD as a format thereby enabling the studios to start getting people to re-purchase part of their DVD catalog in HD, an activity that is apparently very lucrative.

<snip>

... but I do care about the future of HD and I think that prolonging the war is going to send both formats into laserdisc land. I also happen to think that Warner adopting BD is the quickest way to end it.

U, you might very well be correct - Warner going Blue might be the quickest way.

But the point of my post, was that currently at this stage of the game, we as consumers have no choice but to take Warner's positon at face value as their current corporate position, without hidden agendas. Wayne Carter, Warner Home Video VP of Sales in Canada stated in November (2007) that Warner's (current) position is that they do not believe it is Warner's place to determine the winning format.
Note: That's how I recall his intended message on the subject, and I might be incorrectly paraphrasing him. My apologies if so. There are others here that were present, perhaps they can confirm or correct me?
If Warner's postion changes in the future (either way), so be it.

That being said, I believe for us to speculate otherwise is illogical.

It may be illogical but it sure is fun! :D I'm not Vulcan so I guess I'm allowed. ;)

Warner's position can change, I don't think their "word" is worth much, just like many other big corporations. It happened with Paramount, so the precedent has been set, they wouldn't be the first to do it.

Warner will be speaking at the HD DVD kiosk at CES 2008. So if Warner does go Blu-ray exclusive, it won't be anytime soon (i.e. 4-6 months).

Warner will go where they believe they can maximise profit and satisfy their shareholders. If it means remaining neutral, so be it.

Paramount was releasing Blades of Glory on Blu-ray as well. Nothing that has already been planned/announced cannot change.

True... I guess money is the only thing that talks.

Does anybody like those Will Ferrel movies anyways? I always found them too corny.

True... I guess money is the only thing that talks.
HA! Welcome to Business 101. ;)