Hello,

Great site!

I am trying to reduce my heating costs and have decided to finally replace my 35 yr old gas furnace I have narrowed it down to a good installer and he sells both RUDD & BRYANT.

Both are high efficient 2 stage models. He tells me that the BRYANT is more quiet due to a smaller fan and has a newer type of ignition...but the RUUD has 4 speed fan that can be adjusted and an older technology direct spark ignition that is reliable. What I am worried about is warranty and repair in the future. BRYANT seems to have alot more dealers in this area compared to RUDD.

Here's the info on the furnaces

RUDD
90% Plus Gas Efficiency:w/ direct spark ignition.
Warranty:Limited-Lifetime Heat Exchanger All Other Parts 5 Years
$2400

BRYANT
90% Plus Gas Efficiency w/Pilot-free PerfectLight™ ignition
5-year parts limited warranty
$2600

Any suggestions?

Im work for direct energy as a service tech. I work on all brands of gas furnaces. We dont sell either of these brands so ill give you an unbiased opinion.

Get the bryant.

WHY?
-ITs the same as a Carrier and both have long history of having great products(ruud has been hit or miss in my opinion)
-The Bryant also has lifetime heat exchanger(if it does not your getting a builders model)
-The perfect light system is a great others like lennox and ammana use this, its a great system the extends the ignitors life. By constanly lowering voltage goin to the ignitor each cycle... It always tries to light at the lowest voltage possible.... I have not yet replaced an ignitor on the lennox system... and i see alot of these units
-5 year parts and labour should be standard. I would opt for 10 or 12 if they offer it, the charge minimal for this extra and it saves you money by keeping you off the annual insurnace plans $120-150 a year
-From your prices(very low by the way) i'll assume that neigher is goming with Varialble speed DC motors? I would pay extra to get this feature. Typical AC motor runs 400-600watts. The DC motors on bryants run at 80-100watts. If you got a/c in the summer this is a year round hydro saver. The other great thing about DC is there abiltiy to dial in CFM to match what the air conditioner requires and the furnace. Simply setting A/C to hi speed is not the most effecient way of cooling or heating. With DC the cfm is maintained and the fan has the abilty to compensate for some ductwork issues..... they can also rpm up if you forget your filter for a year and it plugs up..... To a point then u get a lock out code. :)
-I swear Carrier/Bryant coined the term "QUIET FURNACE" when they first came out with DC i attened many calls after intall with worries the furnace was not running.... it was they just could not hear it... You need DC for the quiet model
-all high eff furnaces use multi speed fan motor, all u need is 3 thats the most that could ever be used HI-cooling Med-heat LOW-constant fan...
-product support is higher with carrier as they are located everywhere, so parts support is better
-

PS: Direct Spark is not more reliable. Many manufacures in the past used direct spark and almost all of them dropped it and in many case offered retrofit kits to convert from direct spark to HSI (hot surface ignition) HSI is the most common and reliable ignition system out there. The bryant,lennox and ammanas and others offer the next level with there varioable voltage levels goint to the HSI in order get longer life and lower power consumptions

TKG26

I have another question for you.

What do you think about a BRYANT MID-EFF 2 Stage

My installer said he would install one if it was his home and it saves me some money on the purchase price...He quoted me $1900. My friend just got the same installer to do her house and she went with this option.

How long would it take to reach the $700 price difference between the Mid eff to High eff in gas/hydro savings?

Ok here is my opinion on Mid-EFF furnaces..

When to go mid:
-your selling the house and the condition is the furnace be replaced(get the cheapest thing you can get a single mid-eff and get out of the house
-you live in a condo that has some lame bylaw that prevents exhust pipes from exiting the house into common yards or even your back yard(this is rare but i have seen it)
-Your totally broke and cant afford to pay your morgage, your struggling and must replace the furnace... (get a single stage no bells and whisles mid)

Fact is your making a big purchase. MID does 80% eff. HI's start at 90% and hit 96%(the bryants are in the mid 90s) You cant add on after you buy to get the best you can afford now as this thing will be in the house for 20+years..... The prices your getting are very good, that 700$ will come back in fuel and hydro savings... How fast?

Some crude numbers that are probably not far off...
MID $1000 of gas a year $200 a year goes up the chimney
HI $1000 of gas 40$ went up the chimney
In other words if it takes 1000$ to heat your house with a mid the hi will do it for a 160$ less every year. So 4.5 years gets you your $700 back but you will continue to save 160$ of gas over the mid every single year.


Here is what you loose going to a MID:
-heat exchanger warranty. (some have as little as 10years)
-10-16% effeciency
-DC motor?


Hope this helps

tkg26.

Thanks for those explanations. Those numbers put the savings in real terms.

Peter

TKG26

I'm going to go with the Bryant...One last question...I have a 1yr old HONEYWELL
RTH300B Programmable Thermostat. It says it is for Single Stage Heating & Cooling.

Do have to replace this thermostat??

No you dont have to, infact bryants staging software is very intelligent, while others use timed staging .5,5,10 and 15minute low fires before high fire, Bryant and a few others use a software program the is in constant calculation of the cycles. IF the unit ran 15minutes on low fire last cycle it will shorten the low fire next cycle, its hard to explain but basically no 2 cycles are the same as its always adapting to your homes heat load. ITs a very effective solution for using a single stage stat.

One thing for u to look at is the bryant web site to compare its models, pay attention to your heat exchanger warranty. They are very expencive to replace outside of warranty..
http://www.bryant.com/products/furnaces/gas/comparison.shtml

Hi all,

I didn't know two days ago I'd be needing to buy a new furnace... ASAP! My Rheem is 17years old, and after putting way too many dollars into it the motor is now shot - time to replace. I'm sold on the Bryant, but I was quoted $2500 total for the MidEff (80- two speed) and $3500 for the 90. I can't really afford the 90 right now, but if that price is too high and should really be less than $3000 if might be possible.

Can anyone give me a clue where these costs should be?

Thanks so much!!

Not sure where u guys live but those are smoking deals. GEt the 90. It will pay its self off in time. Just make sure that your HI is a 2stage (its not two speed any furnace is 2,3 or 4 speed motors) the money saver is in the stages.


Some crude numbers that are probably not far off...
MID $1000 of gas a year $200 a year goes up the chimney
HI $1000 of gas 40$ went up the chimney
In other words if it takes 1000$ to heat your house with a mid the hi will do it for a 160$ less every year. So 4.5 years gets you your $700 back but you will continue to save 160$ of gas over the mid every single year.

I am no expert in furnaces but I did some research before getting one. I also eyballed the units before buying. I have a Lennox 2 stage mid efficiency furnace with a DC variable motor. This thing is quiet and you only hear the whoosh of the air from the vents unless you are in the basement where the furnace is.

The main reason I got a mid efficiency is I did not want to drill holes on my wall which was required for high efficiency units as they use PVC pipes to exhaust the gas through the side of the house instead of through the traditional chimney that snakes to the roof. Note too that from my recollection, there might be a regulation to line up the chimney if you no longer use it for the furnace but still use it for the water heater.

With regards to other brands, do a google on them just to make sure there was no class action or problem with the specific brand you are interested in getting. The reason I say this is a friend of mine bought a Carrier recently and found out there was a class action against certain Carrier models in the US. His experience with the carrier was also not good as his broke less than a year after he got it. The problem was the AC condenser overflowed water and shorted the circuit board of his furnace. Since the Carrier is a small unit, the circuit board sits below the condenser area. Note that the problem in his case might also be due to the poor installation of his unit. On a Lennox the circuit board is not directly below the condenser.

Just some food for thought.

That class action law suit is about a certain model that used apearantly lower grade steel in there heat exchanger. For the record there is not one brand or model that has not had heat exchanger failure in the industry. I get the pleasure of servicing all brands and get a feel of what does and doesnt fail. Carrier,Lennox both fail but not at very high rate such as models produced by INTERCITY PRODUCTS(heil,keeprite,kenmore,comfortmaker and others)

The drilling of holes in the wall does have some people concerned . In most cases installers will make every attempt to drill above the foundation going through the siding or brick, only when nessary will they drill through the foundation. But these holes are not really reason for alarm, the get sealed after the installation is over. Most foundations have holes in the(hydro,sewer,drier vents ect ect) So its not unusal to go through the foundation..

Another option that is totally within code is to use the old chimney as a chase for the PVC vent pipes. Although not the prefured method its an effective way of keeping new holes from being drilled and perhaps more astetic to the home owner. Both pipes get routed up the chimney chase. If a powervented water heater is also needed that pipe can go up there as well... Most furnaces have allowable vent lengths in the 70ft+ range

As for that circuit boards on furnaces, most these days have them down in the blower compartment, carrier used to have them in the upper cabinet but has moved them into the blower compartment. There is no spot that will protect them from an overflowing drain pan form an A/C evaporator. The problem your friend had was not the circuit board but rather the Evaporators installation was wrong or its drain plugged and overflowed or the system ran with a plugged air filter or was low on charge. Either way the board got wet which is an A/C problem not a furnace problem

Dont get me wrong there is good value in a mid, i just dont suggest people short change there effeciency that pays back for years after that extra money was spent. And you get better warranty with a HI