: Wood Stoves (Napoleon)
2007-11-03, 08:35 AM
For all us Canadians that can finally( sometimes) take advantage of our higher dollar I wanted to mention
I am in the market for a wood stove. I was looking at the Napoleon 1400..very nice looking stove and they are supposed to have a very good product. Unfortunately I can get it in the US for about 7-800 less and this is a product/company that is in Ontario..built here too?
I would prefer to buy here and support our business but not if they are gouging us!
Does anyone have any insight into their prices or practices
Also any other wood stoves that anyone would recommend..
A couple of previous older threads on the topic, but not much useful information for you, unfortunately. I'm sure some people will "pipe up" shortly, but I hope the discussion doesn't get too heated:
2007-11-03, 03:13 PM
Im with you on woodstoves,gas,CARS ect ect ect! to be brought down to US prices. I cant wrap my head around why the honda civic i want here is 26000$ and 21000$ 20minutes from my house in the USA. Sick.. Im not an economist but maybe we need to wait longer for this dollar above par to catch up with us????
hmmm wood stove u got me dreaming again, the neigbors had theres on last night... i love that smell :)
2007-11-03, 04:12 PM
I agree..no flame wars:D
but for me it comes down to Canadian companies upping their prices against their own. I can understand US companies have somewhat different prices because of our higher import duties and shipping etc but not home grown product!
2007-11-04, 08:15 AM
I just put in a Drolet wood stove a few weeks back. You should check them out. I found there prices were much better than Napolean. I purchased one with a blower included (it can heat up to 1500 ft) for $759 and tax.
2007-11-05, 07:38 AM
Yes..I was looking at them too..they are from Quebec and seem to have a good reputation as well. My place is about 2500 sft with 30 ft ceilings so it can be a bit hard to heat. But is is very open concept so I figured a wood stove in the center room would heat it well
The blower system you mentioned..does it help and can you tell (yet) if it is efficient energy wise?
I hear that the bigger costs can be the double walled piping..what does that cost per piece?
Did you have your installed by a WETT tech or do it yourself then had is certified by WETT afterwards
2007-11-05, 12:14 PM
Blowers do little more than make noise and use electricity, especially on a freestanding woodstove(5 to 10% improvement), in a large open area. Efficiency and emissions are the most important thing to look at. Saving a few hundred on a cheaper model may be a mistake if you use a lot more wood.
If you are putting in a woodstove, make sure it is close to a suitable firewood storage area. Bringing in firewood across nice floors is a nasty proposition. Also, we found an ash drawer to be a nice feature. You only have to clean the stove out every month or so with one of those.
Also, a large firebox is a nice touch, less refilling the stove. Then you have your emission control system. Either a recirculating or one with a catalytic converter. Catalytic converters wear out every few years, so you have that upkeep.
The other thing to consider is your air source. Are you going to burn outside air, or inside? I think in an newer airtight home, that outside air would be better. If your house is older and drafty, then inside air.
Pacific Energy have some nice models, they are made right here on Vancouver Island, but the freight might make them less affordable in the east?
2007-11-05, 05:08 PM
I only purchased a up to 1500 square ft model. Drolet (Savannah) model. I installed it myself. I did not have to get it inspected, but I went by spec all the way. It was my first time installing too so it was a little intimidating. I went with dbl wall stove pipe. Costs more but gives you much lower clearence. It came with an ash pan. You would need a bigger model of course. All in all with 11 ft of chimney, 6 ft of dbl wall stove pipe, the installation kit and the stove it cost me around $1700 taxes in. Thats here on the east coast.
2007-11-05, 09:29 PM
If it helps, Napolean's factory/retail store is on Highway 11 at Highway 93 just north of Barrie, Ontario. I drive buy it every day. Phone number 705-721-1214. Web site: www.napoleonhomecomfort.ca
Try calling them to see how they explain the price difference. I'd be interested in knowing their response. Good luck.
2007-11-06, 09:02 AM
Brooker: do you remember how much each section of Dbl wall pipe was? I was looking at the Savannah model as well since I would use it exclusively..just supplemental heating but maybe the large model for my space is better.. The peak of the house is about 40ft so the cost scares me..especially the Dbl wall piping..all adds up:)
I was talking to a dealer near me and they sent an email to Napoleon to ask about the price discrepancy..I did too
My place is an old converted church..first home. It doesn't seem drafty but certainly isn't new vapor barrier super sealed new stuff:) but for 125 years not bad
2007-11-06, 04:07 PM
You only need the dbl wall pipe (black pipe) from the stove to the ceiling. I only needed an adjustable piece. It went from 3-6 ft. I paid $125 and tax for that piece. The chimney pipe( I used Projet brand) worked out to $28 per foot. I too planned on using it for just an extra source of heat. But it is so nice and warm as opposed to the cool and warm of the hot air furnace that I find I am using it everyday now. With the price of furnace oil it only makes sense. By the way the Savannah stove is EPA approved. Right now I am lighting it around 10:00AM in the morning and the last piece of wood is put in around 9:00PM. I average about 1-1/2 to 2 adult male arm fulls a day (if you can picture that)...lol
I remember seeing 6ft lengths of black dbl wall stove pipe at Kent for $110 and tax.
2007-11-06, 07:43 PM
Thanks again Brooker
It seems like that model and I am sure most High efficient ones use very little wood( as long as its seasoned hard wood)
I figured that I would cost about 2 K for the piping..about 3-3500 total. Considering that it cost about 2K to heat this place with gas it won't take long to be back in the black!..and as you said ..more comfortable too!
2007-11-06, 08:54 PM
You may want to look at a bigger model though. If you have a really big area as you say you really need a model that will give you a high output to match your size. My main floor is only 1200 sq foot. It heats really well with that model, the experts say to get one that can heat at least as much as your floor size.....just something to think about.
2007-11-06, 11:42 PM
The link to my thread on high efficiency wood stoves, I still stand by it. In fact my Dad said that all his friends, neighbours, coworkers (everybody heats with wood on his island) who were looking into new stoves have gone for the catalytic models and they all swear by them.
True the catalyst does wear out. But it takes something like 7 or 8 years of constant use before that happens. I just like the even heat they give out, the glowing wood and utter lack of charcoal and ash that doesn't get left behind. The catalytic models burn so hot inside that everything practically incinerates.
I don't like blowers. They're noisy and use electricity. Also you don't want blowers that are sucking heat out of the box as that takes away efficiency of the burn. The thing to use is the "Ecofan." The heatsink powered fan that sits on top of the wood stove and blows the air into the room. Hotter they get, the faster they go. They're also silent and do move a surprising amount of air. I remember last winter, when the ecofan would start to move, I knew it was time to check the thermostat (actually a lever that moved from one zone to another). When the thermostat got into the "hot" zone, that was when you closed the catalytic bypass handle. Doing that meant the fire was hot enough that you could direct all the air through the catalyst. From there on in, it was comfortable warm pleasurable heat.
Cliffs notes: Get a catalytic stove.
2007-11-07, 06:36 AM
I use my blower quite a bit. Once the stove heats up nice I just turn it on the lowest setting. You can't tell its on unless there is dead silence and then you can only here a low noise. Also I use the fan everytime I use the stove, and my light bill was up by $2 from the month before I did not have one. After a full day burning a have about 1 inch of ash left, thats it. I just remove the plug, allow the ash to drop. Once a week I remove the pan and dump the ash. Very simple. Do a search to compare the two technologies (Non-catalytic stoves and catalytic) and decide for yourself.
2007-11-07, 06:51 AM
I have a 1400 and like it. It does a great job and is easy to maintain.
Have you ever had a wood stove before? They give a wonderful heat, but are a LOT of work. Also consider the cost of your wood source. Where I am, hardwood cut, split, and delivered is about $230 - $250 per full cord. When I look at the bigger picture, I save less than 10% when compared to the electric.....however the heat is much, much, much nicer! If I had my time back, I think I would have installed some sort of oil or electric hot water radiation system to supplement the electric BB, instead of a wood stove. (Where it is in my house, it isn't a decorative item and I've come to despise moving and stacking firewood!!)
You may also want to take a look at how the air moves around your home. With such high ceilings, a lot of heat may get trapped up there and be of no comfort value. Probably best to get an expert in on this one.
Anyhow....good luck with it all.
2007-11-07, 12:55 PM
My understanding is that you can use single wall stove pipe from the stove to within a couple of feet of the ceiling, then use the doublewall insulated stuff through the ceiling and the roof(so the roof doesn't go up in flames). The price difference is significant.
Adding ceiling fans (if you don't have them already) will make a huge difference in the heat distribution and would negate the need for any additional fans, presuming it is an open style home.
2007-11-07, 09:54 PM
I think you are a little mixed up in stove and chimney pipe. Stove pipe is the black stuff, it is not allowed to go through a attic. Only chimney pipe (the heavy stainless steel insulated pipe) is allowed through the attic.
2007-11-08, 07:39 AM
Thank you everyone for your comments
My father heats with wood so yes I am familiar with the heat..and he has 150 acres so wood is free..other than the hard work:)
I have 2 ceiling fans in the place already so that part is covered.
Would is be better to put the pipe straight up and through the ceiling or just go up say 6-8 feet then bend it out the wall and straight up outside? Are there benefits for one or the other..heat distribution wise or fire starting wise?
2007-11-08, 12:06 PM
They say its better to keep the pipe inside as much as possible if you live in a cold enviroment. It is suppose to help slow down the cresote buildup because the pipes stay warmer.