I wrote this in response to some recent discussion in the local newspaper regarding the NHL boundaries in Belleville relating to the Leaf and Sens regions. This is my take on the situation and if anyone else is familiar with it, I love to hear some opinions.Re: Sens Fan. The previous poster is actually right on this one. The NHL "gave" Belleville to the Sens for local TV rights. The Sens may have a superior on ice product but that doesn't mean that they even come close to the popularity or wealth of The Leafs. If you were to do a poll of the residents of Belleville, I guarantee the majority would rather have weekday Leaf games but the NHL isn't interested in that. Also, the TV boundary apparently isn't addressed in the same manner by cable (Cogeco) and satellite (Bell). Most Bell subs in Belleville seem to get the weekday Leaf games while Cogeco subs get the Sens. Further complicating this matter is the fact that Sens games on A Channel Ottawa aren't even available on Cogeco. So on cable, Sens fans don't even get all of the games they are supposed to get. And not "all" of Ottawa's mid week games are broadcast on regular TV anyways. Unlike the Leafs, The Sens can't sell all of their games to the networks so they offer some of their games on a PPV basis. These games also are not available in Belleville on Cogeco (and perhaps not Bell either). Of course, you could also pay 24 bucks a month for the Super Sports Pack to get all of the NHL games (and also MLB and NFL since NHL isn't available as a stand alone option), Bell and Cogeco would LOVE you for that (sarcasm intended). But in doing that, you still wouldn't get all Sens games broadcast because Cogeco Belleville doesn't carry A Channel but also doesn't include ANY Sens game on the Sports Package. So for those games, you're screwed, ditto the PPV games. Confused yet? Likely. My point in all of this? All of the stations that carry Leaf games are readily available on Cogeco Belleville (including Leaf TV). Cogeco actually has to switch away from weekday Leaf games on TSN and Sportsnet (sometimes they forget and we'll see a bit of the game). Our channel line-up and closer proximity to Toronto make it a natural for Leaf coverage. However, the NHL has decided otherwise and to get the games you want you can either shell out for the Sports Pak (and you still might not get EVERY game), get Bell and HOPE they'll give you Leaf games or get a grey/ black market dish. It's situations like this that cause people to look to illegal set-ups just to get the programming they want. If the CRTC, NHL, and providers would just smarten up and offer paying customers some choice things would be a lot better.

That situation is ridiculous! Just like I can't get Leafs TV in BC because of those darn NHL regional rules. It seems like they want to force me to become a Canucks fan, when I was a Leafs fan before years the Canucks ever existed. Or the NHL is afraid that if they allowed Leafs TV to be subscribed to all over Canada, that all Canadians would blindly follow and become Leafs fans. It just doesn't make any sense! If it is a channel that costs extra, then only those diehard Leaf fans would fork over the cash for Leafs TV. The Canuck fans etc. wouldn't purchase it. Last time I looked I thought we lived in a democratic society where we are allowed to make our own decisions. These decisions are taken away from us by the NHL and other sports leagues.

These NHL rules are designed to protect the regional rights of the sports team in that region, but I think they go way too far. Residents of Ontario should be able to get both Ottawa and Toronto games and let them make the choice as to which game they want to watch, not force them to watch one team or the other, or be forced to purchase NHLCI just becaue you live in the Ottawa region and want to follow the Leafs. I understand that if you live in the Ottawa region, you also cannot legally receive Leafs TV.

Another example of protecting regional rights of sports teams are the blackout rules to encourage people to go to the games. There was one Raptors game in the NBA last year that was blacked out in BC only, because the Seattle Supersonics were playing in the same time zone. Now that is pushing regional rights a little too far--all the way across the border.

it is indeed a silly situation. I totally agree that Ontario should get both The Sens and Leafs and let the people decide which team they want to watch (maybe they'd watch both who knows). The funny thing is in Belleville that Cogeco does offer Leaf TV in the supposed Ottawa region and so does BEV. Doesn't make much sense does it? Anyhow, thanks for weighing in on this. I totally agree with all of your points.

Here is the stupidest part of it all, we people here in Atlantic Canada are somehow put in the Sens broadcast region, however we are geographically closer to 2, count'em TWO NHL clubs (Habs and Bruins). Now, Its understandable because Montreal doesn't have Regional coverage (however Sportsnet East gave us BOTH Sens and Habs before) and that the Bruins are in another country.

I can remember times when I would watch A Toronto @ Ottawa game on our Sportsnet East channel, but the same game is blacked out on RSN-O on our digital package.

Shouldn't provinces and/or regions that aren't remotely close to NHL cities have the blackout rules lifted? We pay to receive the 4 Sportsnet Channels, and they black out the Leafs/Flames/Oil and Canucks games on us...what are they scared of? Us seeing these commercials?? Don't we end up seeing these commercials on NHLCI anyway?

I just think its stupid that we should have to pay NHLCI to watch games that are on channels we pay for anyway.

What does everyone else think?

TSN PAID for national rights. SportsNet did not PAY for national rights. I think it would be stupid (your term) for a station that only pays for regional rights to games to be able to show them nationally.

Atlantic Canada is in both the Habs and Sens area. Back when SNET East and before that when TSN Regional had Habs English regional rights to games, they were available in the Atlantic Canada.

As you mentioned, RDS is a national service with national rights.

Back to the topic though, it seems to make some sense for Ottawa to share Ontario rights with Toronto. I do agree with that.

The Raptors game blacked out in BC is really whacked because the Raptors franchise owns 100% of all NBA rights to games in all of Canada. It wasn't always that way, but I believe the timing was 2 years ago when the team acquired rights to all games which they then sell off to various networks in Canada.

Atlantic Canada was in the Habs area, but when the Senators came into the league they made a deal to allow broadcasts into each other's areas. That's why the boundary between the Habs and Sens broadcast areas (if one was ever drawn) is irrelevant. The end result is that we have Senators games galore out here (even on the radio for some odd reason) and nobody giving a damn.

Ottawa tried to make the same deal with Toronto, but the Leafs decided to be their greedy selves and said no. (I think the Leafs said they wanted their games to be shown in Ottawa but the Sens had no right to Toronto. The Sens balked and walked away.) That's why you have the ludicrous situation in the Belleville-Trenton area where one city's in the Sens region and the other in the Leafs.

This has been going on a while too: back during the days of the Habs-Bruins rivalry in the 70s, a Bangor station that was on cable in the Maritimes picked up the WSBK Bruins games only to be met with a cease and desist order from the Canadiens for infringing on their territorial rights. (The Blue Jays and Expos never seemed to have a problem with another Bangor station showing the Red Sox, mind you...)

Well, If they are only regional rights, why do they make the channel available to us?

Because, clearly with the demand they experience, people want it.

None of their other programming has sport-imposed blackout rules so why wouldn't they give people the option of time-shifting news, one baseball game over another, etc.

Atlantic Canada was in the Habs area, but when the Senators came into the league they made a deal to allow broadcasts into each other's areas. That's why the boundary between the Habs and Sens broadcast areas (if one was ever drawn) is irrelevant. The end result is that we have Senators games galore out here (even on the radio for some odd reason) and nobody giving a damn.

Ottawa tried to make the same deal with Toronto, but the Leafs decided to be their greedy selves and said no. (I think the Leafs said they wanted their games to be shown in Ottawa but the Sens had no right to Toronto. The Sens balked and walked away.) That's why you have the ludicrous situation in the Belleville-Trenton area where one city's in the Sens region and the other in the Leafs.

This has been going on a while too: back during the days of the Habs-Bruins rivalry in the 70s, a Bangor station that was on cable in the Maritimes picked up the WSBK Bruins games only to be met with a cease and desist order from the Canadiens for infringing on their territorial rights. (The Blue Jays and Expos never seemed to have a problem with another Bangor station showing the Red Sox, mind you...)
I'll back up kirjtc2's point. Back when the Sens were refounded as an expansion team (15 years ago), they offered to share regional TV rights with the two established area teams, the Leafs and the Habs. All the Sens asked for was reciprocity - that if they allowed "regional" Leafs and/or Habs games into the Ottawa market, that Sens games also be allowed to be shown throughout Quebec, Atlantic Canada, and the rest of Ontario.

The Montreal Canadiens, which has always been the more enlightened of these two organizations, agreed. The Toronto Maple Leafs, which has always been the more short-sighted organization (on both the business and hockey side) said no. That's why we still have what we have today.

In retrospect, as a Sens fan, I'm glad the Leafs said no. I'm not sure if, in the early years as the Sens were developing their fan base, if they could have economically survived the flood of every Leafs game being on local TV - it's been enough of a challenge, even with a better team for the last decade and rules that limit Leafs telecasts.

On the flip side, as a hockey fan, just imagine how well all hockey fans across all of Ontario would be served if every Leafs and Sens game were on TV - there'd practially be a game every night!

As for the original point advanced by Leforge - it's obvious there's an inconsistency on the part of Cogeco in including Leafs TV in their cable system in Belleville. This obviously now needs to be communicated to the NHL VP of Broadcasting, who will undoubtedly enforce NHL By-Laws and send a "cease and dissist" order to Leafs TV and Cogeco. Hopefully beautiful Belleville will be "free" of Leafs TV before the start of the regular season.

Well, If they are only regional rights, why do they make the channel available to us?
Umm, because outside of NHL hockey the rest of the programming will not be affected at all.

I'll back up kirjtc2's point. Back when the Sens were refounded as an expansion team (15 years ago), they offered to share regional TV rights with the two established area teams, the Leafs and the Habs. All the Sens asked for was reciprocity - that if they allowed "regional" Leafs and/or Habs games into the Ottawa market, that Sens games also be allowed to be shown throughout Quebec, Atlantic Canada, and the rest of Ontario.

The Montreal Canadiens, which has always been the more enlightened of these two organizations, agreed. The Toronto Maple Leafs, which has always been the more short-sighted organization (on both the business and hockey side) said no. That's why we still have what we have today.

In retrospect, as a Sens fan, I'm glad the Leafs said no. I'm not sure if, in the early years as the Sens were developing their fan base, if they could have economically survived the flood of every Leafs game being on local TV - it's been enough of a challenge, even with a better team for the last decade and rules that limit Leafs telecasts.

On the flip side, as a hockey fan, just imagine how well all hockey fans across all of Ontario would be served if every Leafs and Sens game were on TV - there'd practially be a game every night!

As for the original point advanced by Leforge - it's obvious there's an inconsistency on the part of Cogeco in including Leafs TV in their cable system in Belleville. This obviously now needs to be communicated to the NHL VP of Broadcasting, who will undoubtedly enforce NHL By-Laws and send a "cease and dissist" order to Leafs TV and Cogeco. Hopefully beautiful Belleville will be "free" of Leafs TV before the start of the regular season.
[QUOTE]t's obvious there's an inconsistency on the part of Cogeco in including Leafs TV in their cable system in Belleville. This obviously now needs to be communicated to the NHL VP of Broadcasting, who will undoubtedly enforce NHL By-Laws and send a "cease and dissist" order to Leafs TV and Cogeco. Hopefully beautiful Belleville will be "free" of Leafs TV before the start of the regular season./QUOTE]

Cogeco followed the lead of BEV by offering Leaf TV to subs in Belleville. BEV takes it a step further and offers subs (some of them at least) in Belleville all regional Leaf games. So there certainly is some inconsistency in what is offered by both providers here. Cogeco seems to be half playing by the rules (even though they are stupid rules IMO) and Bell does not. I have heard that Bell goes by the physical distance between Belleville and Toronto and make no mistake about it.... Belleville is CLOSER to Toronto than Ottawa any way you slice it. So perhaps the league should move their imaginary boundary further East? Honestly, I do have to agree that Ontario should be shared by Ottawa and Toronto. Obviously people will watch The Leafs whether they win or not so I don't think they have anything to fear from The Sens stealing away their fans. They sure haven't stolen me away because even though The Leafs drive me crazy... I HATE The Sens with a passion and would be pleased to see them move to Kansas City. But that isn't likely and, given the greediness of The Leafs organization, neither is sharing the broadcast region. So that leaves me either missing the weekday leaf games, watching The Sens games and cheering for their competition or finding a workaround such as Centre Ice, listening on XM or watching on Sopcast. Anyhow, in the end I think BEV and Cogeco should be playing by the same rules and that if Belleville is an Ottawa region when all is said and done... both providers need to provide access to ALL of their regional games. Oh, how I long for the days of Molson Leaf hockey on Global!

As for the original point advanced by Leforge - it's obvious there's an inconsistency on the part of Cogeco in including Leafs TV in their cable system in Belleville. This obviously now needs to be communicated to the NHL VP of Broadcasting, who will undoubtedly enforce NHL By-Laws and send a "cease and dissist" order to Leafs TV and Cogeco. Hopefully beautiful Belleville will be "free" of Leafs TV before the start of the regular season.


Cogeco followed the lead of BEV by offering Leaf TV to subs in Belleville. BEV takes it a step further and offers subs (some of them at least) in Belleville all regional Leaf games. So there certainly is some inconsistency in what is offered by both providers here. Cogeco seems to be half playing by the rules (even though they are stupid rules IMO) and Bell does not. I have heard that Bell goes by the physical distance between Belleville and Toronto and make no mistake about it.... Belleville is CLOSER to Toronto than Ottawa any way you slice it. So perhaps the league should move their imaginary boundary further East? Honestly, I do have to agree that Ontario should be shared by Ottawa and Toronto. Obviously people will watch The Leafs whether they win or not so I don't think they have anything to fear from The Sens stealing away their fans. They sure haven't stolen me away because even though The Leafs drive me crazy... I HATE The Sens with a passion and would be pleased to see them move to Kansas City. But that isn't likely and, given the greediness of The Leafs organization, neither is sharing the broadcast region. So that leaves me either missing the weekday leaf games, watching The Sens games and cheering for their competition or finding a workaround such as Centre Ice, listening on XM or watching on Sopcast. Anyhow, in the end I think BEV and Cogeco should be playing by the same rules and that if Belleville is an Ottawa region when all is said and done... both providers need to provide access to ALL of their regional games. Oh, how I long for the days of Molson Leaf hockey on Global!

The sens will not be moving.So don't get your hopes up.

I'd like for all Leaf fans to be able to watch Leaf games when ever and where ever they want......it would give them one less thing to complain about......

Obviously people will watch The Leafs whether they win or not so I don't think they have anything to fear from The Sens stealing away their fans.

That's precisely the arguement the Sens made in 1992....MLSE refuses to listen to logic.

Oh, how I long for the days of Molson Leaf hockey on Global!

...and I just hated those days. Here in Ottawa, it would play havoc with our TV schedule...back in the days when FOX was not carried on cable in Ottawa, many shows were only available on Global...and Global would bounce them around each week based on the Leafs schedule. Here in Ottawa, we'd miss regular scheduled program, and get filler programming while Toronto got the Leafs.


They sure haven't stolen me away because even though The Leafs drive me crazy... I HATE The Sens with a passion and would be pleased to see them move to Kansas City.

There are programs for people like you ;) I grew up in Toronto, a Leafs fan. Fortunately, age brings perspective. I, like so many others have been able to outgrow my childish ways...;)

Hi there,

Old thread but applicable so will post here.

I was wondering if anyone knows a solution other then buying a hacked dish.

Who should I contact in the following scenario:

Leafs TV has me in Leafs region.
TSN has me in Leafs region.
Center Ice has me in Leafs region. (thus blackedout)
Sportsnet has me in Ottawa Valley region. (thus blackedout)

So as you see, with Sportsnet, there are 22 games I don't see this year. I purchased Center Ice and because they have me in leafs region, they won't show me the game either. It is not supposed to work that way.

I should (to my understantanding) be in entirely in Leafs region or the Ottawa region according to all tv stations and not mixed regions??

I've had no luck with contacting the nhl or cogeco.
Would I contact sportsnet? or the NHL and who there would give me something other then a canned response. (all that i get so far)