: An Ergonomic Mouse?
I know it sounds silly but are their other forms of mice that you don't have to click on with your finger?
I use an ergo keyboard to avoid RSI and it works great but I have pain sometimes from mouse clicking too much in a day and am looking at alternatives.
I try using my left hand for awhile but it doesn't work well (no jokes about using your left hand please!)
It sounds crazy but are there any mice that could be controlled by your foot?
2007-08-23, 08:25 PM
Hugh, I do ergonomic assessments as a part of my job. There are a lot of different products for pointing devices.
outboard touch pads, oversized mouse, big buttons, etc...
There are feet controlled mouse products, but Ive never actually seen/used them myself. I deal mostly with coorporate clients, and application of those would be parapalegic and others who have trouble using their hands/arms.
I suggest you dont go that way, the learning curve would be huge. There are a lot of other options.
Making sure your wrists are supported in neutral positions is imporant too.
This vendor has most if not all things that are on the market. Take a look and see what might work
Ive found that touchpads make a great change for people with finger issues.
2007-08-23, 08:50 PM
also, make sure you follow the advice in here if you are at a PC for that long each day.
Taking breaks is key, also. 10 minutes each hour is a good rule of thumb.
2007-08-23, 10:50 PM
I prefer 30 minute breaks each hour. I've noticed that with a lot of mousing (is that a verb?) I rotate my body slightly leading to a sore left shoulder (I'm right handed). The mouse is in a bad position because it's too far right. If you have a keyboard tray then putting the keyboard on the tray and the mouse on the desk above the keyboard helps centre the mouse.
2007-08-23, 10:55 PM
The mouse should be at about the same level of the keyboard; that is the accepted position/lowest risk for RSI. Commonly used items should be within an 'elbow pivot' reach.
2007-08-24, 12:47 AM
A couple of observations from 20 years of mousing experience...
1. Some mice are a lot easier to use and less tiring than others. This is largely personal preference. I like mice with higher resolution and vertical sides with a pronounced indentation in the middle. Lighter mice with buttons that are easier to "click" tend to be less tiring. The center wheel can also cause finger stress if it offers too much resistance.
2. Switching sides can help if injuries or pain build up in one hand/arm. I switched to the left side for a few years and it really helped. It does take some time to adapt. I also switched the buttons to make it more natural. Not only did it provide relief from pain but I found the left side much easier and faster because it is closer to the main keyboard. The main issues with left mousing are finding an ambidextrous/left hand mouse and some mouse software that incorrectly handles the left/right button swap.
I use a trackball (Kensington - parked right next to the keyboard) and you can programme the 4 buttons for a variety of functions. I use my right hand and my right thumb for (left) clicking.
Right clicks and a variety of other clicks can be programmed into the 3 remaining buttons.
I also have a wrist rest that runs the length of the keyboard and over to the trackball - that way my arms are never unsupported. Ergonomics are key to a good life with your computer.
I used to even have a keyboard which was 2" shorter than normal due to different key placement. This meant that the trackball was 2" closer to the typing keys. Unfortunately, the keyboard wore out and I needed a new one and I like typing on the new one better - nice key feel, despite the 2" extra reach I now require. (Some of the older smaller keyboards without numeric keypad are still available, however, I hate the keys. I wish I could have the best of both worlds.
You can buy a compact keyboard for PCs that I always used at work - still has 19mm key spacing for touch typing if you shop carefully, just a different layout - sometimes without the numeric keypad - which is fine for me since I don't use it (I use the keys at the top).
2007-08-24, 02:49 AM
Where do you get the keyboards with other layouts. I still long for the old "XT" keyboard and the old "97 key" layout (best ever keyboard IMHO.) MS ruined the keyboard with their "AT" layout and dangfangled Windows keys that I never use. :(
The ergonomics of my setup is fine and I understand about all the rest.My issue is the massive clicking of the mouse which is causing me problems.
Polaris, thanks for the link. The Ergo Click palm mouse looks like it might be the best solution as it stops the mouse clicking altogether. Ideally I'd like the click palm mouse where instead of using my left palm, I could use my right foot.
2007-08-24, 09:59 AM
They have foot products too.
Give them a shot!
Where do you get the keyboards with other layouts.(
Do a search for Compact Keyboards on the Web. There are a number of manufacturers, however, stay away from the really inexpensive ones if you're a touch typist. The keys/key action are not always the best. Also make sure you get the standard 19mm key spacing. Some have 18mm or less to make them really compact.
If you just search for keyboards, there are other ones that have all kinds of different layouts.
2007-08-24, 11:43 AM
MS ruined the keyboard with their "AT" layout and dangfangled Windows keys that I never use.The Enhanced AT keyboard (with 12 function keys across the top and 101 keys) was an IBM design. It's supposed to be faster for touch typists (i.e. data entry clerks) than the previous 10 function keys on the left side. (One hand presses shift/ctrl/alt and the other presses the function key.) Programmers prefered the 10-function key design because you could chord a command with the left hand and use the mouse with the right. IBM also added a cursor keypad which was a big improvement. MS added 3 keys to the IBM design. I don't use the Windows keys either.
I still have an OmniKey keyboard by Northgate Computers. Still the best feel of any keyboard I've owned.
YOu guys wouldn't mind staying on topic would you. THis thread is about Ergo mice!
Polaris, I'm thinking of ordering the foot devices provided they have some type of way to stay put on a wood floor.
Sorry, Hugh, I was trying to think outside the box a bit as the entire inputting procedure can have an impact. For example, there are some keyboards with touchpads included, which minimize hand movement and eliminates the mouse, etc.
There was a recent Business Week article about a mouse that you hold in your hand and move like the Wii device.
57, I know your heart is always in the right place and I appreciate it!
Upon Polaris' suggestion, I am looking at ordering a foot pedal type device.
2007-08-24, 05:44 PM
I started getting carpel tunnel on my right hand which I attributed to endless mouse clicking because of my job. I tried switching to left hand but couldn't get past the learning curve while keeping some semblance of productivity. I then tried a mouse pad with a wrist gel support & so far that has solved my hand pain issue. Now I think I have chronic neck & shoulder pain because of poor mouse placement causing over reach. My whole work office setup sucks & my home desk is not much better. Time to change things before I need a neck brace!!
2007-08-25, 11:58 AM
I am fine with the current 101+key enhanced.
These days, I would sooner have the reverse T cursor controls and the Ins/Del/Hom/End/Pgup/PgDn keys rather than left hand function keys.
I found the left hand function keys useful for an old DOS text editor called TED.
2007-08-25, 02:45 PM
I started getting carpel tunnel on my right hand which I attributed to endless mouse clicking because of my job.
Here again, the type/brand of mouse can make a big difference. Some mice create a lot of stress due to design, weight and resistance to clicking. Try some different mice to find one that works better for you. Also, Windows works well with two mice. Try setting up a left and right mouse and switch as necessary. It helps to swap the buttons on the left mouse but it is not easy to just swap the left and also have a right mouse that isn't swapped.
If a keyboard shortcut can be set for common mouse clicks, that can help as well. (The old XT style function keys were great for that.)
2007-08-26, 05:24 PM
At work anyway I found I could replace some mouse point & click functions with tab & enter. Every little bit helps.
FYI, I have purchased a Kenesis Savant Elite Triple Foot Switch and a Perfit Mouse. Total cost $333!
Polaris, thanks for the tip. I spent a long time on the phone with the company you recommended and after a long conversation, I feel good that I have made a wise choice!