In BC, these seem to be about 50/50 in terms of what people install.

For the efficiency, I can't see not putting in a heat pump. Does anybody know the cost differences to install? Both seem to be fairly comfortable when in use.

Air to Air will cost you more to run then a 92%++ effeciency gas furnace. Not to mention when you get the 2 stage gas furnace and DC motors you saving on gas and hydro. Typical AC motor running at 500-700watts DC furnace runs at 80watts.

With a heat pump you normally will need a secondary or back up system for the extra cold days where a heat pump wont cut it. Im not a big fan of heat pumps expesive complex and cant handle cold CND winters on its own. All the ones here in ontario have a secondary backup.

Heat pumps are okay for moderate climates and parts of BC would fall into that. Whether it's a good choice or not really depends on a few factors. How is your existing furnace? If it isn't too old, adding a heat pump isn't a bad idea (again, if you're in an area that doesn't get too cold in the winter). If the furnace is getting on in years, TKG26's advice of a 2 or multi-stage furnce might be the more economical way to go, especially with a DC motor.

OIL to gas is a no brainer for sure. 2000$ a year to my now 900$ including hot water and bbq. :)

I hear you! You may have been responding to a part I edited out, where I was comparing our old heat pump/oil furnace combo to our new gas 2-stage and standard A/C combo. So far, we seem to be paying half as much as we had been, and since the bills were so high, the savings are pretty darn significant. We leased the equipment and the energy savings are easily paying for the lease!

Here's an entire recent thread on one type and some economic discussions that may be of help:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58543

I am planning to install a heat pump next spring as well. In BC our Hydro charges are low compared to the gas prices given that and our moderate climate I have talked to many who have seen a good savings.

For me through that reason is the added benifit of central air conditioning I know it is not needed in BC but for those few months a year it is nice to have.

... We leased the equipment and the energy savings are easily paying for the lease!
You can lease a furnace?

Yup...don't think I'm permitted to mention the company name, but the Wizard comes from there ;)

Many companies are now leasing or renting furnaces. for someone going from an old standing pilot system to a new HEF furnace, the savings in the cost of operation will more then pay for the rental of the new furnace.

Heat Pumps are a topic that really all depends on location.

there are also 2 types of heat pumps.

Air to air systems are the most common because they are the cheaper of the 2
Ground source heat pumps are much more efficient but require a 2nd well to be drilled.

in places like Ontario and anywhere where the temperature falls below minus 10 C on a frequent basis, the air to air system is no good to you. At minus 5 there is not enough heat in the air to do the job with out adding suplimental heating.

the ground source heat pump is a much more efficient heat pump as the ground water is always the same temperature year round, and it can extract the heat all winter long.

That being said, you are still running a compressor system with a 40 amp breaker. The hydro costs are still going to be more expensive then a 2 stage gas furnace.

no matter how you slice it, it will be cheaper to heat with gas then with Hydro.

Rod

johnnyg is that a lease where the cost of the furnace is paid off during the lease, or is there a residual value for the furnace at the end of the lease?

Many companies are now leasing or renting furnaces.
That's because they can charge 2, 3 or 4 times what it would cost to get the furnace installed by an independent contractor. Even deferred payment plans from energy companies often double the cost of a furnace. It's probably cheaper in the long run to borrow the money from the most expensive loan company out there than to finance a furnace through these companies. Most people can do a lot better by borrowing from a bank.

Well thats because when u rent your renting not buying. ITs not a secret that money is to be made by the renting company. But keep in mind all repair and maint costs are included. So its ideal for a person that cannot afford to buy for what ever reasons. Its also good for landlords with rental properties. ITs a rent it and forget it deal for them where they can hand the tenant a phone number to call if repairs are needed

During the rental period all repairs a covered and replacement when or if needed is also covered.

I dont know why people get there shorts in a knot when it comes to renting. Everyone knows that buying is the smarter way to go, as apposed to leasing or renting... No one says that renting a car is a scam or leasing a car is a scam... Not when people have good reasons to be leasing or renting a car.

I would never rent furniture or tv or computers... But for some people its there only option. Rental of a furnace is the same, no salesman will tell you that renting is better then buying... ITs simply an option..

No one says that renting a car is a scam or leasing a car is a scam...
Renting a car is short term. You expect to pay more for short term convenience. It's like a hotel room, you are paying for the convenience of someone else having the room (or car) sit empty 90% of the time and having it available when needed. It's still a lot cheaper than buying a second car or residence in another location.

Leasing companies typically make a 10%-20% margin over buying the same vehicle (based on typical used vehicle value at the end of the lease.) You pay extra to get a new car every 3 years and for not having to sell the vehicle yourself. Some people lease to get a better tax write off. Sounds like a good deal to me.

OTOH, furnace companies make 100% to 300% extra for financing a furnace installation. If this was written up as a standard loan, the interest rate would probably be illegal under Canadian law and nobody in their right mind would agree to it. It doesn't even make sense from a repair point of view when typical repair costs are taken into account. In return, you are stuck paying for an old furnace long after it is paid for and are at the mercy of the rental/lease agreement if you want it replaced or serviced. No thanks.

johnnyg is that a lease where the cost of the furnace is paid off during the lease, or is there a residual value for the furnace at the end of the lease?
It's a residual value lease. The contract is supposed to contain that information, as well as the early buy-out formula, but we haven't received that yet, so I can't comment on the specifics. You can purchase outright from this company too and were told that we'd never pay more than the purchase price, which was itself the lowest of the 3 quotes we got.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but we just added a new Lennox 13 SEER A/C unit for $38/month (based on a 5 year lease). Their 5 year program is a locked-in rate, too (the 10 year increases 2.5% each year).

The company has really been a pain to deal with, making many mistakes along the way, but they do seem to have a decent program.

The reason we leased our new equipment is because we're only planning to stay in the house another 2-3 years. This way, there was no big cash outlay for something we probably wouldn't get all the value back out of when we sell the house. Much better to put the money into something like new flooring.

When we sell, the new buyers can take on the $155/month payment, or they can buy-out the lease, or we can agree to buy-out the lease.

That being said, you are still running a compressor system with a 40 amp breaker. The hydro costs are still going to be more expensive then a 2 stage gas furnace.

That may be true when speaking of which unit uses more electricity BUT, when you look at which technology uses more ENERGY, the GHP will win every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

NO and I mean NO hydrocarbon based heating technology is able to hit or exceed 100% efficinency. If they were, there would be no vent stack or chimney. GHPs are regularly capable of no less than 300%. Mine is rated at 360% heating and ~500% cooling.

In the end, you may use more electriity with a GHP than a gas or oil furnace, but the GHP WILL use less energy overall AND will be FAR lower maintenance and exceedingly more climate friendly. (Provided your electricity source is not coal or oil which fortunately in Canada, is not even 30% of our total energy source)

As some here know, I am a MASSIVE GHP supporter and for all the right reasons. They are smart, low maintenance and extremely efficient. They also act as water heater, a dehumidifier AND an air conditioner. They are simply the ultimate all-in-one HVAC equipment.

Oh, and they don't NEED wells. They use closed loop systems that can be either glycol or R148/R22 based and can be installed with either vertical columns or horizontal shallow trench installation.

All the jargan aside.... IF you have a 2 homes side by side of identical construction one running a heat pump and one running a 2 stage NAT GAS furnace..................... At the end of the year when the utilities are all added up the gas unit will probably heat the house for less money.. There is almost no hydro consumption from a 2stage dc gas furnace(running at 65watts)

The jargon CANNOT be set aside.

The gas unit may not use much electricity, but the GHP uses NO gas. Fossil fuels are much more volatile, price wise, than electricity. With this, it is a far more likely outcome that the GHP equipped house will cost less.

AND!!!!!

The GHP does air contitioning AND hot water all year round. With this factored in, the GHP is all but guaranteed to best any setup with an air to air A/C unit(s) and a gas furnace.

There is also some very good information on heating / cooling on FortisBC's website. They even do a cost comparison or running electric/geo/air/NG/wood....