I currently have a 27" Sony Trinitron CRT that has served me well for 11 years, but I bought a townhouse and I have an awesome Paradigm home audio setup.. and well a 27" TV sucks for that It's like watching the most amazing sounding concert on a video iPod.

So I have decided I need a new TV. I would like something between 42" and 46"... I think 50" would be too big for my living room. I will be sitting 11.5 feet away.

I went to BB and FS to look at TV's and I will first quash the possibility of DLP. There is absolutely no comparison of DLP vs LCD or Plasma, in my opinion. Looking at them all side by side I can't believe considering DLP, but I guess it is cheap. I don't like cheap though :)

Ok, so LCD vs. Plasma. Here are the points I am considering:

1) I want to use my TV for anything I want. I don't want to be restricted. But here's what I usually do:
- 25% Watch movies on standard DVD
- 60% Watch television
- 10% Play games on an xbox or xbox 360
- 5% Use Media Center / PC

It is important to note that I want my movie experience to be excellent. I don't care if I don't see perfect picture in Homer Simpson's face or Jerry Seinfeld's puffy shirt.

Of the TV time, I would say 50% will be SDTV, 50% HDTV. I am fortunate to live in Toronto where we have HD alternatives for nearly everything I want.

Also, you can bet I will be getting HD DVD and / or Blu Ray once the prices are reasonable. Again, movie experience is important to me. At the same time though my current DVD's have to look good too.

For games, I have a powerful PC with a 24" Dell LCD so a lot of games I play on it. the xbox 360 frankly would be more used for only a few games and as a media extender / PC. I am not a hardcore xbox gamer.

2) I may leave my TV on for no other reason than background noise. I also fall asleep in front of it sometimes. I have a real problem paying for something that can burn in, to me that is ridiculous. If the issues with burn in have been resolved for the most part then great! But if I want to leave my DVD on pause for an hour I should be allowed to. I can with my CRT so I should be able to with something that should be mature enough to have its problems fixed.

3) The room I am in has many windows and yes glare happens on my current TV but to be honest if glare is no worse on plasma than on CRT then I don't care. I've learned to shut blinds / live with it. Plus eventually my basement will be finished and whatever I get will be moved there.

4) I don't watch a lot of sports, I play them I do watch F1 I guess. Motion is really only a concern for me in movies then.


LCD's I have looked at the Sharp 46D82. Really the only one worth looking at. Full 1080p, 120 Hz refresh, 4ms, HDMI, etc. It's an awesome unit. Aside from Sony but Sony build quality and reliability in their consumer electronics in the last 5 years has gone straight in the toilet so I won't even look at them.

Plasma's I looked at a Panasonic and Pioneer. Mostly the Pioneer, 5070HD (the 42" version is the one I'd probably buy). Panasonic I looked at the TH42PX75.

Side by side, the Sharp 52D82 and the Pioneer 5070HD both look great. I can see a more natural look in the Pioneer but as far as the blurring of LCD's, the Sharp looks 90-95% as good as the Pioneer. You have to look really close to tell. 120Hz refresh looks to have helped a LOT.

Let me summarize my concerns:

1) Plasma's in the size I am looking at are 1024x768 which seems weak to me. Maybe I'm looking at specs too much but how can you get a really great HD picture on something like that? 1080p is a no show on plasma, but I wonder how much benefit that really is going to be in my scenario...

2) Burn in. Is this really still an issue now that plasma's have been out for like 8 years or something? If I leave my xbox game paused for an hour cause I get on the phone, I don't want an issue. If it goes away after a few mins, fine. Its permanent burn in that worries me. Especially in 4:3, the black bars. Fact is a lot of what I watch may have that and stretching isn't going to happen. Stretched 4:3 looks awful to me and drives me nuts.

3) Blacks. I want my movies to look great, are the blacks really that much better in Plasma? Am I going to suffer going to LCD? These new Sharp models are supposed to be much better at handling blacks...

4) Overall picture quality. Very important to me. Do the current LCD's match up really well with the plasma's? Or are they too 'aggressive' or harsh? Plasma's are smoother and more natural, I know, but is it by a LOT?

The real things keeping me from plasma are:
1) Reliability
2) Burn in (4:3 will be displayed as such, black bars will be on the TV for a while)
3) Picture quality for PC / Media Center / games
4) Crappy resolution (1080p is a no show, 1024x768), but does it even matter, or is it noticeable?

The real things concerning me about LCD are:
1) Blacks coming through in dark movies
2) Blurry motion, but not sure if its an issue in the new Sharps...

You can see my dilemma here. Perhaps I am asking too much from a TV but I don't buy these things often and I expect them to last a long time. I want future 'proof' (at least as future proof as possible). I have never seen these TV's outside of a store so I don't know what they are going to look like in my home. Wish I had both to try first... I am very skeptical of anything displayed at a store... very skeptical.

I would appreciate any feedback! Price is not a concern in this arena here, for what I am looking at LCD and plasma are priced very close, within $400 or so.

Thanks a lot!

-J

Can't help with the technical matters, look like you're more knowledgable than I am. I just bought a 42" Toshiba LCD three months ago, it's a 1080p display that can't accept a 1080p signal. Really happy with it, but I'm not too picky. I've noticed the blacks are not too black, especially those bars when watching SD signal or ultra-wide movies. The funny thing is that it's not too noticeable in the daytime when there's lots of light, but at night, when the lights are dimmed, I can see the difference.

The only concrete recommendation I can give, based on experience, is that the 42" size may not satisfy you at 11-12 feet. That's my viewing distance right now, and now and then, I'm wishing I went for the bigger 46" or even the 50" TV. YMMV.

Most of your questions are covered in the links in the following thread.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741

Burn in is real on susceptible TVs and should not be ignored. If you plan to watch 4:3 as such, unstretched for more than about 20% of the time, you will get burn in.

At 11.5', you can go 50+" easy. See the "How Large a TV to buy" in the above link.

Please put your location and service provider into your UserCP Profile (location). It'll help us help you.

In your case, I'd probably select the Sony SXRD (LCoS RPTV) - either 50" or 60".

i have a 40" lcd but would 2nd a sxrd from sony 50"-60".

Yeah... thing is I am really hooked on a flat panel of some kind... for space, looks, etc. What most closely resembles the SXRD? LCD or Plasma? Or is that a dumb question?

Sorry for being difficult :) I'm just really torn here. This is a LOT harder than it used to be shopping for just a CRT, lol

-J

If you're truly going to watch 4:3 programmes unstretched for more than say 20% of the time, then I'd say go with the LCD. LCD black levels are not quite as good as Plasmas, but the other benefits probably outway that "fault". LCD black levels have come a long way in the past few years and your brain should adjust pretty quickly anyway.

42" is indeed too small for an 11.5' viewing distance. In order to fill enough of your field of vision to give you an "immersive" experience for HD material, you should ideally sit 3.3 times the screen height away from the display. At 11.5', that's about an 80" screen! The ideal viewing distance for SD material is about 8x the screen height and since most viewing is a mixture of SD and HD, the ideal viewing distance is a compromise that falls somewhere in between (around 5x), making a screen around the 56" mark the best choice.

Given that, have you considered rear-projection? Samsung has some nice brand-new DLP sets with LED lighting that should last the life of the TV, and they are pretty thin as well (about 18" deep). No burn in concerns, no bulbs to change, excellent black levels, much less expensive (56" is $2800 list), and lighter than LCD or plasma too!

If you go with Sony than yes better watch SD unstretch, the stretch on Sony is sucks! bascially I agree with you that all Sony sucks in the past 5 yr! I am stop buying Sony now, before I have everything in Sony! Take a look on the stretch on Pioneer, NEC or even LG & Toshiba, there stretch mode are just so nature that you won't notice it was stretched. Their idea is stretching the center a little bit and stretching the side mode than also stretching the top & bottom a little (cause some cut off on top & bottom but not much). This will keep the center AR the same as original and the side stretch a little bit in order to fill out the full screen.

I hate all strech modes. When someone near the edge of the screen moves their hand in front of the camera it looks completely distorted. Watching the Simpsons or Family Guy is terrible too, the characters look terrible. I stopped using the strech modes altogether.

My parents wanted a new big screen last year and since the TV is on for 15 hours a day (or more!) I decided that the best choice for them was CRT rear-projection (bulb replacements would be far too frequent and expensive, and everything else was too expensive). Of course, the only choice today is widescreen and they absolutely hate the stretch, but they hate using only part of the screen even more! Who knows if this TV will ever see a high-def signal.

I've looked at DLP and the picture quality isn't there. I really dont care too much about power consumption, weight (I don't carry it around with me :) ). I honestly am starting to lean towards LCD. I just can't seem to get past the burn in thing. I mean a lot of TV puts black lines horizontally or vertically and I can just imagine me falling asleep and leaving SDTV on for 9 hours... I think I am going to go back to BB tonite and do one more sanity check.

-J

SD for 9 hours will do nothing permanent. It's cumulative and takes many months. Re-read the FAQ on Burn in if necessary. If you considered the DLP, why won't you consider the LCoS (Sony SXRD?), or, as you said earlier, are you now only considering flat panels.

What didn't you like about the picture quality of DLP? I've seen just about every TV type out there up close and personal (I'm a professional display calibrator) and I would be hard pressed to pick any technology over another based solely on image quality. Each and every one of them has it's pluses and minuses in that respect.

I looked at all technologies, DLP, LCoS, LCD, Plasma and I found DLP to be poor at viewing angles, and that the screen looked greyish and faded unless you looked at it from the right location. I mean it could've been a function of where I looked at it, and lots of people are happy with DLP I am sure, its just not for me I don't think.

The only reason I haven't spent a lot of time on LCoS lately is because I have decided I do want a flat panel since. Hence why LCD / Plasma are my choices.

I know I am going to have to compromise on some things, sorry if I confused anyone, this is a hard decision :)

-J

i do have to say most rptv (dlp, lcos/sxrd) have issues with viewing angles. i was at a freinds who has the 50" sony sxrd and sitting from the right side of the tv i could hardly make out the picture...i would say it was at 60 degrees from center. and even when viewing from up/down the brightness was getting very low. with my lcd flatpanel no matter what angle it looks the same. but if sitting in the right position and right lighting conditions a dlp or any rptv will really shine. black levels are great on them. and they dont have burn in problems...but they seem to have bulb issues where if u turn off the tv and turn it back on it can greatly shortan the life span. dint know if lcd fp have that sort of issue. also dlp do not seem to have a true 1080p res, its some sort of mirror doubler that shakes the crap out of the tv to produce the extra pixels. even though u cant see the pixels. well i couldn't.

Many of the problems previously attributed to flat panel LCD (such as response time) are well on the way to being solved. Black level is improving but IMHO is not yet as good as Plasma, LCOS or DLP. How important is black level to you? If most of your viewing is in a brightly lit room you may never notice the difference. If you like to watch movies about caves in a dark room you probably will notice that blacks are closer to charcoal grey.

One big advantage of LCD is that it approaches the “plug it in and forget about it“ simplicity of we took for granted with our old CRT displays

Here is some gratuitous advice from an admitted noob:
1. Based on your first post, it appears you have done your homework and are leaning towards an LCD flat panel. So go for the LCD. At this time there is no perfect display technology. Pick the technology that has the most acceptable set of compromises for you. Once you get your new set home it will look so beautiful you’ll wish you made the move sooner.
2. Go for the 50 inch size. I watch me 58 inch DLP from 9 feet and wish I had gone for the larger size.
3. Definitely get HD service. The first time you see a good HD signal on your new LCD you will never be able to go back.

FWIW, my next TV will probably be an LCD flat panel. It will be a 70 inch 1080P set with 2ms response time, excellent colour and black level and cost $2,500. I plan to make this purchase in 2013.

FWIW2, if I was buying a new set today I would probably go with the 60 inch Sony SXRD.

as you're planning on using it in part for games and media center stuff i'd say go for LCD. although "they" say burn in is no longer an issue it still frightens me. also unless you're willing to spend a huge amt of money on plasma with 1080p (for pc screen resolution) LCD is still your best bet. people complain about black levels on LCD but as long as you get a descent LCD it really isn't much of an issue anymore. at 10 feet with my 47" westy i'm pretty satisfied with the size.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Yes the more I read the more I feel LCD is right up my alley. Black levels are important but I mean LCD's have come a long way there and realizing no matter what I have to sacrifice something, I'd sacrifice black levels over always having to be worried about burn in or whatever.

I am probably going to get the Sharp 46D82 or 52D82. Probably the 46, the 52 is just a lot more expensive. I looked at the Samsung 4661 and 4665, and I dont know I just feel like there is a lot better motion on the Sharp and it doesn't assault your senses the way the Samsung does, Sharp seems more natural.

Any thoughts on these?

-J

Personally, I'd be concentrating more on the fact that even 50" is really too small for your viewing distance, but to each his own.

On a 46" screen at 11.5 feet, you won't be able to see any difference between LCD, DLP, plasma, 720p, 1080p, smooth motion, sensory assaults, whatever. You will be able to see the difference in black level in a dark room though. When you're going to the store to compare, you're looking at the screen from only a few feet away which is an ocean of difference compared to your space.

From 10 feet away, I settled on a 40 inch Sony, but I really liked the Sammy 4042 and 4096. I just liked the way the Sony's picture looked over the Samsung and I diid't like the piano black finish as much as the dull black on the Sony.