I don't think he meant to say demarc, but rather the panel inside the home where all the coaxes terminate from the various rooms. This is not Bell property and can be used by cable.

The thing is Paolo, where I live, most inside wiring is done by private installers, who use inferior materials, and do just enough to get the service going
The customer doesnt know a good from a bad job sometimes
Most times, only 1 pair from a 4 pair wire will be connected back to the panel (most rough ins only run the cable to the basement, and let contractors extend it to the panel)
So, they connect up a single pair, if you are lucky, put electrical tape around it, if not, just lie the bare copper on top of the duct work, and hope that it isnt moved
Its not always this bad, but I know it does happen
When there IS a problem, the Rogers tech would be less likely to fix it than the Bell tech
Its just down to what they have seen in the field, and Im sure the Rogers techs will get better, but it will take time, and experience to get them up to par

i hate tv, the reason why, Is bell USED to be responsible for the inside wiring of your house up untill a certain time when the rules changed. So you will still see some old school bell technicians who have a tendancy to "want" or "know" what to look for inside the house when there is a problem

Rogers on the other hand is new to the telecom, so they are only trained on current standards.. Bell may have an advantage but that shouldnt be used against rogers...

57, Rogers is disconnecting the demarc outside.
I watched one of their technicians do it today when my friend moved from their Sprint/Rogers POTS line to Roger's VOIP Hybrid service.
I asked him what he was doing.
He said he was connecting service.
I asked him if he had a legal right to disconnect the hardline from the demarcation point.
He didn't answer.
So I asked him again if he was legally allowed to be disconnecting BELL wiring.
He said 'That's what I'm instructed to do to give the customer service.'
I know not all tech's will be doing this, but some do, to make it easier to provide service to all the jacks.

Paolo, what you just described would be called a 'competetive advantage'. Not exactly sure what would be wrong with using a competetive advantage.

Nem, who knows a little about demarcation points.

Hmmm, well I would take it into account, its not the be all, end all, but it does count for something
I do value experience, and eventually, Rogers techs will gain the knowledge that comes with installing, trouble shooting telecom, but it wont happen overnight
Most cases (mine included) you rarely have an issue, but if you do have problems, I would rather have a technician that specializes in telecom, rather than a cable guy, that can hook up to a demarcation point and utilize already active phone jacks
Just one of the many factors to take into consideration when choosing your provider
As for the demarcation point Nem, where I live the Bell box has 2 sides to it
One side is only accesablie to Bell, and the other is accesable to the customer
This is where they will tell you to plug in your phone if you are having phone issues to try and isolate where the problem is coming from (outside, or inside)
Choochy who knows a lil' bit about demarcation points, or maybe not?

You're absolutely right IHT. But the tech was disconnecting the hardline to the demarc on the OUTSIDE of the building.
The reason this is an issue is 2 fold.
1. If BELL doesn't know it's been disconnected and a new customer moves in, they will assume the line is still connected and the provisioning is only required on the line, not at the home and a tech won't be sent out. The customer then has to call back into repair and have a ticket placed. This causes undue delay in providing service for a customer who shouldn't have had to call in.

2. The hardline is legally BELL's property.

Nem, who is confused between choochy and IHT

I'm confused as to why the tech had to diconnect from the demarcation point outside
He could have disconnected from Bell's network inside of the house, and connected to Rogers VOIP service at that location, I would think?
I guess it would be the customers responsibility to let Bell know he is canceling his service with them, and seeing as he is still residing there, the chances of someone moving in, and using his phone line, would be slim
I hate tv, who likes the nic "choochy" given by one Nemoch

I swear your name said choochy.

Anyway, they disconnect at the dmarc so they don't have to make a new whole int he building to insert the cable.

On a Local Number Portability request, the CLEC (i.e. Rogers) actually informs the ILEC (BELL) that they are taking the customer and the date the customer wants to disconnect. Just because they disconnect does not mean the customer is going to have the demarc disconnected.
Also, Rogers is winning customer over to sprint, then converting them to Rogers by saying it's cheaper.
They then disconnect the dmarc on the move over.

Nem, who sees choochy is weird places.

My understanding, is that Bell owns the cable UP TO the demarcation point, just like in a Rogers Cable box, Rogers owns the cable up to the box
Now the phone line connecting from the demarcation point to the Bell Network, and going into the house, is plugged in like a phone jack to Bells network
If the customer is going to VOIP, I would think his modem would be set up, in the basement (not necessarily though) and a line would go from the VOIP/Modem, to the internal "demarcation" point (where all of the internal wiring is connected to the line coming from outside of the home from the "official" demarcation point
If this is the case, simply disconnect the line coming from outside, and hook up you VOIP from Rogers, and no need to even open up the Bell box outside

My understanding, is that Bell owns the cable UP TO the demarcation point, just like in a Rogers Cable box, Rogers owns the cable up to the box
Now the phone line connecting from the demarcation point to the Bell Network, and going into the house, is plugged in like a phone jack to Bells network
If the customer is going to VOIP, I would think his modem would be set up, in the basement (not necessarily though) and a line would go from the VOIP/Modem, to the internal "demarcation" point (where all of the internal wiring is connected to the line coming from outside of the home from the "official" demarcation point
If this is the case, simply disconnect the line coming from outside, and hook up you VOIP from Rogers, and no need to even open up the Bell box outside
your forgetting... not all houses have the same demarcation point. Times have changed, and Bell has done things differently throughout the years. We finally have a sort of Standard for home telephone wiring, so sometimes not all houses meet these criteria.

The current standard is this. The small gray box outside your house, is basically a wire coming frm the underground up the pole onto a blank box with no markings on it, inside the box is a lightning supressor of some sort, and a ground wire, there are 4 nuts there and the green and red wires are connected to one set of nuts, and a wire from the inside of the house goes through a hole in the bricks and connects to those nuts and continues the wiring into the basement. This box is called an NID and the metal cover slides up to access it nd its full of cobwebs, there is no logos on this box, and its basically what I have on the side of my house. The second point is where the wire comes into the basement and goes into the electrical panel, and there is a small square jack with a phone plug on it. this is actually called the demarc. Not all houses have demarc's but I had one added later to my house with the installation of additional telephone line. the reason this is the demarc, is because your phone lines terminate here from the outside and the home owners wiring responsibility starts here. so when a bell tech comes to diagnose problems, he will find out if its bells wiring or yours,. which makes life simpler, plus if u have 2 lines, you will have 2 phone jacks, the chords go from the dmarcs to some kind of distrobution block where this continues to the rest of the houses internal wiring. This is the most ideal place to install the Rogers Home Phone service as all you are doing is unplugging bells wire, and plugging the wire from the distribution block directly into the back of your DPS modem. and WALA your done.

Old demarcation points used to be inside homes, near the panel (not always)
When Bell got out of doing all the inside wiring, they moved the demarcation point to the NID "Network Interface Device"
The question of why the Rogers tech had to enter the NID, made me question if he knew what he was doing
There was a wire coming from the NID (From what I understand) so all he had to do, was go to the other end of it, and disconnect from there, hook up Rogers to the demarcation point internally, never having to touch the Bell NID
Its not a big deal, but if there are problems, people will always say he touched some wires in the Bell Box, so if he can stay away from it, sometimes it makes the customer feel better knowing that Bell box was not touched

So if the customer (or someone moving into the home down the road) moved back to Bell would be charge them to go inside to correct the wiring in the home? I know Telus usually charges $90/hour for all internal wiring changes. So if a change needs to be done in their box on the home there wouldn't be a charge other than the regular connection charges. I think the tech may have made the changes there to avoid future potential charges.

more troublesome is the fact that it can delay service for a customer. if the demarc is disconnected without the ILEC's knowledge, they have no way of telling if they need to send a technician out to the premesis or not.
If they don't, the customer won't have service, would have to call in and have a repair ticket issued.

That's where the real concern is.


Nem, who is concerned.

Hey guys, I've been interested reading your experiences.

I am currently in the process of moving and changing from Bell home/internet to Rogers (as it is cheaper to bundle all the services).

I find the Rogers home phone not as clear and loud, the wireless has a dead space before the ringtone starts (which according to Rogers is normal, and on the discussion board here noted that some companies have false rings, which I'd actually prefer). The internet had some glitches the first few days but seems to be working now.

However, the transfer of our old home number from Bell to Rogers has been a bit of a nightmare, long story but both Rogers and Bell give me different stories.

I'll keep you guys updated if interested.

The second point is where the wire comes into the basement and goes into the electrical panel, and there is a small square jack with a phone plug on it. this is actually called the demarc. Not all houses have demarc's but I had one added later to my house with the installation of additional telephone line. the reason this is the demarc, is because your phone lines terminate here from the outside and the home owners wiring responsibility starts here.
That is not the "demarc". officialy, the Bell's demarc is right outside the house in the box where the landline comes out of the ground, connects to a lighting arrestor and has an rj11 connector for the technician. Case in point, if a Bell customer encounters problems that cannot be replicated at the rj11 jack in the demarc, then Bell can charge the customer for troubleshooting that problem inside the house.

The wire that comes out from that box through the bricks into the house is technically the home owners responsibility but since it terminates into Bell's box, it becomes a gray area causing no end of confusion when problem occurs or an ILEC is involved.

yo Nemnoch you don't know what your talking.

Can you perhaps clarify your statement in a full, grammatically correct sentence or paragraph please northernsurferb.
Thanks.
Nem, who doesn't understand 'troll'

Nem, who doesn't understand 'troll' ROFLMAO

we renovated our House and the Bell line from the pole was cut. I got Bell to come, run a new wire from the pole to the house, attach a demarc box outside and then connect the two wires from prewired jacks (so the builder ran the wires from two rooms to the basement and Bell just went into the basement and attached those to the demarc) to the outside demarc box.

No one told me that about these fees?!

$154 Misc Service Charge
$99 Single Line
$55 Single Line

I called to cancel and they don't even care... wouldn't reverse one charge. I'm sending a letter to the EVP of Customer Care and Pres & CBO of Residential... if no reverse of that, bye Bell.

Good luck with that. I've been lied to and overcharged by Bell on numerous occasions. They have never reversed the charges, even when they were 100% in the wrong. What a good business model. Quote $35 for a job over the phone and then send a bill for $105. That, and worse, has happened over the years. It's no wonder people hate Bell.