The atm fees is a much bigger probleam right now.You need a bank account you do not need a rogers home phone etc.

with ATM fees though you can chose to use your own banks machines and not be charged. The governement should stay away from this issue. Since if they force the banks to not charge for other banks transactions, the banks will increase your other fees to make up for the charge. Basically they'll be forced to punish "smart people" who don't use other bank machines to offset for the money they're losing on the "not so smart people" who use them knowing they'll be charged and then whine like babies.

I can't believe our government can't find better things to do with their time.

Thats not the case at all.I use the rbc and in dec alone i was charged $45 just in fees .All i use is the rbc atms.They charge you for checking your balance non print out and of course the charge you for a print out.They have a pile of other charges that need to stop.

did u know about these charges? If so, that's your problem. I know Scotia doesn't charge for balance inquiries (they do for mini statements).

I somehow doubt you got to $45 without having NSF fees or overdraft charges since most of the banks offer accounts that offer accounts with unlimted access for less than that (i think RBC has a no limit account for $11.95 a month).

Some people get accounts that don't match their use and they bitch about the fees. They get a noe-fee account that only includes 2 free transactions a month and then use it like a checking account and are amazed at the costs. These are always the first people to complain to the government.

I keep the appropriate balance in my account and pay NO bank fees. Haven't paid a fee of any kind ever, except for a certified cheque for a car purchase every few years.

I go to the bank's ATMs - there are plenty of them and I do a lot of my banking on-line, for which there is no charge.

If people wish to pay the bank's fees, or go to "Money Marts" or any of those things people who don't know how to handle money do, that should not be MY problem.

If you have money issues, or pay bank fees, watch this programme.

http://www.lifenetwork.ca/tildebtdouspart/

I'm not sure why people do not use President's Choice Financial?

The only drawbacks I have with them is:
1. Can not use bank card outside of Canada (Not with PLUS system)
2. Pain to get a "Certified Cheque"

For these instances I have a 2 free transaction account and a Free Line of Credit Account with CIBC.

Pluses:
1. No ATM Fees with PC and CIBC ATMs (even those at 7-Eleven)
2. Free Online bill payments/ Statements
3. Competitive high interest savings accounts.
4. Got a free bag of cookies when I signed up about 10 years ago.

I've frequently checked my balance for various Royal Bank accounts at a machine, and never had a service charge. I think if you start printing account statements out at the machine, they start charging you, but they do mail these to you monthly. They also charge for bankbook accounts now ... but you just have to switch to a mailed monthly statement which is free.

Most of the stuff I just run through a chequing account (no point doing much different, since they pretty-much stopped paying any interest even on savings accounts). On that, I have the $4 a month "Signature Plus Flat-Fee Option Small (http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/RBC:Rb@o0471A8cAAQDwFHY/cgi-bin/deposits/compare/accounts.cgi?left_select=ffosmall&left_expand=0&g0=1&g1=1&g2=1&g3=1&g4=1&g5=1)" which provides for 15 free debits (inculding debit cards, withdrawals, cheques) a month. I don't tend to use debit cards much, and I've never exceeded 15 a month since I got the plan. But if one uses a lot of debits, then there's a 25 a month package for $6.

Anyway I'd stronly recommend looking at the $4 or $6 a month package. It's probably all you really need, and once you consider that the cheques are free under it, it probably isn't that much more than one would have paid in the old days. (though in the old days, the amount of interest they paid you, tended to exceed the service charges).

The thing is we've gotten so used to bank fees that we tend to overlook the fact that the banks are charging us for services that we should not be penalized for, or are overcharging the fee. Yes, there are ways of avoiding bank fees altogether, I haven't paid a fee for years simply by adhering to my banking agreement, but the real issue is when they do charge a service fee, why do they charge so much? Why charge $1+ simply for going to a competing banks ATM, when the actual cost of that to the bank is a fraction of a penny.

I'm not sure why people do not use President's Choice Financial?I've been with PC Financial for several years and I've been extremely happy with them. Free cheques, no fees, competitive savings and RRSPs rates and more - what's not to like?

Why charge $1+ simply for going to a competing banks ATM, when the actual cost of that to the bank is a fraction of a penny.
Because they can. There was a recent Frontline programme discussing all these bank fees and credit card fees, where the banks make a HUGE amount of their money.

I feel the same way about people who rarely shop the sales - makes great pricing for people who DO look at prices, plan meals accordingly, etc.

Probably the same people who spend $100/week on take out coffees, etc.

It's all in the "convenience" mindset that many people have these days.

We've discussed previously the many ways that people can save a few $ here and there, and pretty soon you've got thousands (or 10's of thousands) of dollars in savings per year... It's up to the individual to decide what "lifestyle" they choose.

However, they must then realize that it is a CHOICE and not whine about THEIR choices in life. No one is ever forced to go to a white ATM and withdraw $20 only to lose 10-30% of it on fees.

Yes, that's right, because they CAN. So more importantly, why do we accept that they CAN? Why do we accept that they can charge us a fee for getting them to certify a cheque? Certainly it does not cost them the amount that they charge. The only reason why is because it's been ingrained in the Canadian banking culture. From the same Frontline piece, in the UK, when the banks tried to introduce charging fees, they faced a customer revolt and have since cancelled them.

If they don't make their money from fees, charged mostly to people who simply aren't smart with money, they would need to make their money elsewhere - lower interest rates (could they get lower), etc.

I'm perfectly happy being "subsidized" by others on bank transactions having paid to subsidize others all my life with my various taxes, which make bank fees less than a rounding error..

The banks make a ton of money on fees, but that's not what's making them have enormous profits, although it is a part of it. And again, the issue is not how you can save on being charged fees. That's all smoke and mirrors put up by the banks to make you think that you can avoid fees altogether. (Geez, I sound like a conspiracy theorist).
The real issue is WHY do the banks charge so much for the fees that they do, and get away with it? As I said, if it costs the bank fractions of a penny to charge you for using another bank's ATM, why do they charge you $1+. That's a mark-up nobody should ever accept on anything, but because it doesn't SEEM like a lot of money, then people live with the convenience of it, but deal with the inconvenience of wasting their money.
Also the fee for a certified cheque can run between $5 and $20, for a service which should take no more than 5 to 10 minutes to do.
I'm not saying the banks should be run like a charity and not charge a fee for some services, but the cost of the fees that they are charging are astronomically higher than the cost of the actual transaction.

My problem is the fact that there is a fee on top of a fee.

Let's say I use the "57" brand bank machine. He charges me $2 for the service. Fine by me- he has maintenance and so forth.

But then my back charges be another $2. Why? 15 years ago when Interac came about the bank explained that they were charging me the fee because the 57 Bank was charging them a fee. So why am I paying twice?

And now that the private companies like the 57 company are charging extra, so are the big banks. And the reason they can is because so many people are oblivious to the costs because of there being 2 fees.

And for those who say "just use your own bank"; sometimes that isn't possible or practical. And because there are oblivious people out there; I have to pay $4 because I ran out of cash at the hockey game.

Historical niggle. 15 years ago? That would be 1992. I seem to recall first withdrawing money using a BMO machine from my Royal Bank account back in late 1986; to the disbelief of my aunt who worked in the branch at the time. And I was instantly disappointed to discover there was a fee for doing so ... and I don't think I have done so since, except in an emergency.

I think I can count on one hand the number of withdrawls from other banks I have made in the last 20 years. Far, far fewer than withdrawals overseas. It doesn't take much planning to only withdraw from your own bank. Though it does help by selecting a bank that has machines everywhere. (and that is the reason my wife has moved from PC to Royal Bank. It's no good, if you can never find the machines anywhere! Though personally, I wouldn't touch PC for the simple reason that they were backed by CIBC. I've dealt with CIBC on about 3 different occasions in the last 20 years ... and each and every time, they were just a total pain to deal with. Incompetent and unprofessional. I kept finding they didn't have the ability to do the simplest things I took for granted at the Royal (even a couple of years ago, I couldn't get it set up, to pay my Gold CIBC Visa card automatically - they just didn't have ability to have an automatic payment set up).

It takes seconds to set up auto payments via CIBC's website.

PCF is the best alternative for folks who are paying fees and CIBC has a hugh ATM Network.

WHY do the banks charge so much for the fees that they doI answered this question before, however, that answer was incorrect. The correct answer is "because they must".

Under our current economic model it is the Corporation's charter to maximize profits and to maximize shareholder returns (within the law). Basically corporations must function like psychopaths, within the law.

I'm a shareholder having a not insignificant portion of my portfolio in Dividend Funds. I therefore would like to thank all the people who increase my returns by continuing to run out of money, use white ATMs, etc. ;)

Quote by nfitz: "I wouldn't touch PC for the simple reason that they were backed by CIBC. I've dealt with CIBC on about 3 different occasions in the last 20 years ... and each and every time, they were just a total pain to deal with. Incompetent and unprofessional. I kept finding they didn't have the ability to do the simplest things I took for granted ..."
Thank you for that, saves me from saying the same thing. sailmaker

One problem with PC- unless your credit is perfect they won't even touch you. I ran into that about 10 years ago when I applied. Now that everything is good for me I won't give them my business.

Did some poking around - looks like CIBC and Royal both have relatively equal ATM networks these days. And perhaps they have sorted out the lack of payment options issues, which forced me to leave them the last time. But after going to them on 3 separate occasions, and getting stung 3 times in 20 years, and compared to my much easier dealings with both Royal Bank and BMO for well over a quarter-century ... I can't see myself going back there a fourth time - not for a couple more decades at least!