Here is a list of recorders (DVD, VCR, or HDD) with ATSC tuners that either have been anounced or are currently available. The list is a work in progress and the list of features is my best guess from the press release and may not be accurate. MSRP is in USD:

JVC - Press Release (http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=545&pageID=1)DRMV99
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $329.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, Timer Link auto recordHM-DT100 (http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027315)
Type: D-VCR
MSRP: $1,499.95
Aval: now
Feat: HD Recording
LG - Press Release (http://us.lge.com/aboutus/pressdetail/detail/press_TV%7CAudio%7CVideo_298_1.jhtml) RC797T
type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
feat: USB Media Host portDR787T
type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
feat: USB Media Host port
Panasonic - Press Release (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=104566&modelNo=Content01062007085220398&surfModel=Content01062007085220398) DMR-EZ17
Type: DVD
MSRP: $229.95
Aval: April-07
Feat: DMR-EZ27
Type: DVD
MSRP: $279.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, SD slotDMR-EZ37V
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $329.95
Aval: April-07
Feat: DMR-EZ47V
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $379.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, SD slot
RCA - Press Release (http://home.rca.com/en-US/PressReleaseDetail.html?Cat=RCAAccessories&MN=104)DRC8335
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $249.99
Aval: April-07
Feat:
Samsung - Press Release (http://www.samsung.com/common/microsite/exhibition/ices2007/presskit/ices2007_ce10.html)DVD-AVR950
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $319.99
Aval: Jun-07
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recordingDVD-AVR650
Type: DVD
MSRP: $249.99
Aval: Apr-07
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recording
Toshiba - Press Release (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=133)D-R550
Type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
Feat: D-VR650
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM
TiVo300-hr Series3™ (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR)
Type: HDD
MSRP: $799.99
Avail: now
Feat: HD Recording, subscription required

Thanks Roger, that's terrific info! For some people the lack of this type of OTA machine has been a real downer, and for some it has been the reason they haven't gone with OTA.

Nice to see the upcoming analogue cutoff in the U.S. having such a good effect on the marketplace. I hope those companies will market these products in Canada!

Roger,
My thanks too. I guess the next thing I would like to add to your table is Canadian release dates. I think there was mention of the Panasonic in April. Does anyone have any more dates to add?

I was thinking, it will be interesting to see how the DVD recorders will handle unconverted SD and ED programs since the recorder will have to downconvert them. Unconverted WS programs will probably see some degradation as compared to the original WS source as a result of the upconversion and downconversion processes, but it still should look pretty good.

The real problem could be with Pillar Boxed 4:3 programs. If the recorder doesn't know that it has been pillar boxed, it might record it in anamorphic WS, resulting in a loss of picture detail. I can see three ways of resolving this issue, each with its own pros and cons.


Let the user select the aspect ratio. The problem is most people don't know which aspect ratio a program is going to be broadcast in.
Use the ATSC flags to determine the aspect ratio. If the flags are incorrect, the wrong aspect ratio could be used though.
Try to detect black bars to select the correct aspect ratio. This could be difficult to do and could, in some circumstances, result in the switching of aspect ratios mid program. This would probably be the best approach though.


Can anyone think of any other solutions?

I'm just wondering why there are so many ATSC DVD recorders announced or available, and so few HDD recorders (see post #25)?

I've never used either, but at first glace HDD recording seems to be a better solution for a number of reasons -- theoretically infinite capacity w/ add-on drives, no need to down-convert, a mechanically simpler device, possible lower long-term costs (depending on how many dvds you would burn), etc.

Am I missing something? Is there a strong argument in favour of DVD recording?

timmy1, I have heard several people with similar questions. I don't have an official answer but can only speculate that the primary issue is cost. The increased data requirements of HD necessitate larger and faster hard drives. If you also include the added cost of an ATSC tuner (some estimate that it adds an extra $100) the device probably doesn't end up meeting the price point that OEMs estimate is required for it to be successful. As the cost of hard drives and ATSC tuners come down, we may start to see more HD-HDD recorders on the market.

I stumbled on a brochure describing LG's 2007 product line (http://www.proaudioinc.com/2007_Full_Line_Brochure_LoRes.pdf). The DVD recorders are on page 13 (right side of page 7). I have updated the information below based on this:

LG - 2007 Full Line Brochure (http://www.proaudioinc.com/2007_Full_Line_Brochure_LoRes.pdf) (PDF)

RC797T
type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: March 2007
feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller
DR787T
type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: March 2007
feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller

Here is another confirmed DVD recorder with ATSC tuner:

Philips:
DVDR3505 (http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/tree/en/us/consumer/home_entertainment_gr_us_consumer/dvd_home_theater_ca_us_consumer/dvd_harddisk_recorders_su_us_consumer/ce/dvd__hard_disk_recorders) - User Manual (http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/dvdr3505_37/dvdr3505_37_dfu_aen.pdf)
Type: DVD
MSRP: $329.99 ???
Aval: March 2007 ???
feat: SDTV tuner, 1080i up-conversion, i.LINK

Scanning through the manual it seems kind of awkward the way you have to manually switch between analog and digital tuners with the remote. It also sounds like the tuner will down-convert everything (even live broadcasts) and then up-convert it again. I hope others are better than this.

There are a couple more recorders that I haven't been able to confirm from the manufacturers so I would count them as rumors for now:

Philips:
DVDR3575H_37
Type: DVD with 160GB HDDx
MSRP: ???
Aval: April 2007 ???
feat: ???

Sylvania:
zc350sl8
Type: DVD
MSRP: $199 ???
Aval: April 2007 ???
feat: ???

Scanning through the manual it seems kind of awkward the way you have to manually switch between analog and digital tuners with the remote.I'd have to walk away from a tuner like that. :mad:

Integrated ATSC/NTSC tuners are popping up all over the place now so I don't see why they had problems doing it too.

USB media host is mentioned for several models
details ?
Reviews ?

USB media host is mentioned for several models
details ?
Reviews ?

The exact features will vary depending on the make and model of the player, but basically it is a USB port that allows you to plug USB media storage devices (USB drives, memory card readers, digital cameras, MP3 players, etc.) and the player will display/play the files (picture, music or video) on the device.

I haven't tried it, but the concept is cool. Next I would love to see a Bluetooth Media host so that all you have to do is have your Bluetooth enabled phone within 10 meters of the player for you to get access to all the files on it.

Well, looks like my worst fears have come to life.

Samsung is releasing a new Canadian model DVD-R150 which will have an analog tuner with no digital one (a combination now illegal in the United States), instead of simply bringing in the tuner-less and integrated-digital ones.

I have also noticed that Panasonic is bringing out the DMR-ES16, another model that seems to be Canadian-exclusive which most likely will be like a DMR-EZ17 but with the digital tuner RIPPED-OUT as well!

To add insult to injury, I noticed LG has two new Canadian models also: LRH-880 and LRH-890

Usually Canadians have EXACTLY the same models as the United States. It's only since the integrated digital tuners have been introduced in TVs and DVDs that the Canadian distributors have started to get cheap and plunder pieces out of American models only to save a few bucks. Canadians should not be treated as residents of a third-world country!

We are more than half way through April, have any of these models been seen? A quick run through my local shop didn't reveal any. Do we have to wait for last years DVD recorders to be sold before these appear on the shelves?

I read on a different forum that many of the manufacturers have come out with Canadian models that don't have digital tuners. It isn't much of a loss though as none of the ones released in the US seem very good. It sounds to me that they have just slapped a digital tuner onto the front of last years model. As a result, most (if not all) of them take the digital signal and convert it to analog before converting it back to digital for record on DVD. Also, most of them don't record 5.1 audio or handle WS recordings properly.

Tigerdirect is selling the Panasonic DMREZ17 line of DVD recorders with integrated ATSC tuners on their website.
I saw pop on around easter, then they disappeared and now I see they have returned. I don't have one so I don't know how well they work.

Good catch, tlamothe! I entered DMREZ17 into Tigerdirect's search tool and it came up with a K version in Black finish and an S version in Silver.

Here is the Panasonic manual for that unit, which gives its specifications on Page 65 and identifies it as an NTSC-only machine:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMREZ17.PDF

The one on the Tigerdirect page must be a newer version of it because it has an ATSC tuner, Component Video Out, and Optical Audio Out. Weird that the model number stayed the same...

Anyways lets be clear that HD shows recorded on this unit will be rendered onto DVD in NTSC format, presumably in letter boxed wide screen.

Old TVs used to have dials with click stops on them. That's my impression of an analogue tuner.

Personally I see no point in having a tuner in a DVD player/recorder. I have satellite tuners and a Shaw digital box (tuner). I pass the tuner output to the DVD device via S-Video cable. The DVD device is simply a pass-through device for these other tuners.

I have noticed that the patent of TiVO makes it difficult to get on-screen guides in Canada. A couple of my DVD recorders offer some crappy TV Guide on screen guide. This is linked to the tuner of the device and as I don't use the tuner, then it is totally useless. I do not know the financial aspect of this service. I understand that commercials are downloaded with the Guide. I don't know if the manufacturer also pays a fee. If new DVD devices don't have tuners, then any financial dealings with TV Guide are eliminated.

Analogue tuner uses the NTSC format
Digital tuner uses the ATSC format.
Tons of info on DHC about the differences between them.

Personally I see no point in having a tuner in a DVD player/recorder. I have satellite tuners and a Shaw digital box (tuner). I pass the tuner output to the DVD device via S-Video cable.

You must pay a subscription fee (otherwise you are pirating) to use a satellite or shaw box. OTA users use the DVD player/recorder with ATSC tuner to record digital (including HD) programming without having to pay a BDU (cable/sat/iptv provider) a subscription fee. the DVD player/recorder is connected to an antenna to receive the Over the Air programming. That is the difference, and for some it is a huge point.

As FOXFAN noted, Panasonic has decided to not include the ATSC tuners in the new Canadian DVD-Recorders. There is one exception: the DMR-EZ27K should be available now. It is on the Panasonic Canada website for $350. I was in a local store (Trutone Electronics on Bloor). They think they'll be able to order one for me soon (maybe this week).

I just got back from a vacation in Florida. At Best Buy, the DMR-EZ17 and the DMR-EZ27 were on sale for 180 USD and 237 USD, respectively. They also had the EZ37 and EZ47 but the prices weren't listed. I also saw an LG or Samsung DVD-Recorder with a digital tuner (sorry can't remember model numbers) for 200 USD.

It is pretty apparent, we Canadians are getting the shaft - both with model availability and the price.

BTW, as an aside, I think this forums ROCK! It has been a gold mine of info. I got my plasma TV set up with my OTA antennae (getting about a dozen channels). All thanks to this forum. Thanks Stampeder and colleagues.

Gary

Could this unit(DMR-EZ17K) be used to receive the OTA digital signal, but display through a regular NTSC tv?