I am struggling with what versions of LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP) to put on my new servers.

The webhost I've been using uses Suse 9.3 and 10.0 Server editions and that is NOT really changeable. What is in issue is the AMP portion.

The two main scripts on DHC are Vbulletin and Joomla.

Here is what they require

What are the system requirements for vBulletin?

Minimum Requirements: vBulletin is designed to run on every server that has PHP 4.3.3 or greater and MySQL 4.0.16 or greater installed.

It is recommended to use PHP 4.4.2 or 5.1.2, or later and MySQL 5.0.19 or later.

and Joomla


Joomla! will support installation and use with PHP 5 and MySQL 4.1. You MUST ensure that PHP has been compiled with support for MySQL and Zlib in order to successfully run Joomla.

The Problem

For my new servers the webhost is basically saying that I should use MYSQL 4 and PHP 4 because "the OS we recommend (suse 9.3 and suse 10.0) do not support this configuration (Mysql 5 + php 5.2)."

A representative at Novell tells me

Hugh,

I spoke with our Linux guru about this and he confirms that there are NO issues whatsoever installing MySQL and PHP5 on SLES 9.3 or 10. We ship both products with our media which implies that they are both completely supported by Novell.

In addition to this, IBM and Novell also offer and support a combined web hosting and development Integrated Stack for Linux exclusively on SLES 10, that also supports the major and current releases of MySQL, PHP, Apache/Tomcat and the WebSphere Community Edition.


Options.

Webhost - Suse Linux with Apache 2.0, PHP 4.4.4 and MySQL 4.3.x

or

SUSE Lamp which includes Apache 2.2, PHP 5.2 and MYSQL 5.1


I'm bewildered Novell ships with the near latest, my webhost essentially is telling me it won't work BUT they will install. I sense that If I go for the later versions, they will essentially walk away from me if there is any problems.

From the Joomla website:

System Requirements PDF Print E-mail
Here are the minimum requirements for Joomla 1.0

* PHP 4.2.x or above - http://www.php.net
* MySQL 3.23.x or above - http://www.mysql.com
* Apache 1.13.19 or above - http://www.apache.org

and from the Vbulletin website:

System Requirements
Minimum
PHP 4.3.3
MySQL 4.0.16

I would use what your webhost provides, since then you have recourse if there are problems, and both products support what they are providing. There isn't that much stuff out there now that REQUIRES either MySQL 5 or PHP 5. I'm running latest v4 of both on my server with no issues (not with Vbulletin or Joomla, however).

Tom

Your title is misleading, Hugh, because you're really asking for advice about versions of Apache, MySQL, and PHP per version of Linux you choose to run.he confirms that there are NO issues whatsoever installing MySQL and PHP5 on SLES 9.3 or 10. We ship both products with our media which implies that they are both completely supported by Novell.There's your answer - go with the folks that are already supporting your needed configuration.

If it comes down to who will support you in a crunch, maybe rpr is right, but lets hope it never comes to that.

The problem is Linux.

In discussing with folks, it all depends on which flavour of Linux you use and what VERSION you are using. It appears that PHP5, MYSQL 5 play differently with different versions of Linux.

The result is that only the most recent and expensive versions (i.e./ the enterprise versions) of Linux run are known to reliably run the latest and stable versions of PHP5 and MYSQL5.

The older and NON-enterprise versions, i.e/ not so costly, aren't reliable with the new MYSQL and PHP.

So PHP5 and MYSQL 5 work great with Suse 10 enterprise (expensive) but not with the regular Suse 10 open source server edition (cheaper)

So both my webhost and Novell are technically correct!


rpr, I am using the V4 products without incident but I am missing out on some good security benefits and performance improvements. I decided on the V4 versions for the new servers (so I could be assured of support from my webhost) .

The amazing thing is that php 5 has been out a LONG time but adoption rate is so low because its performance varies dramatically based on the linux box you put it on.

Oh, the "too much choice" problem. :D

You may see this as a "bonus" but in my mind, it simply means that Linux will always remain on servers and administered by a select few who are willing to endure the torture of trying to figure what applications run on what brand of linux.

I think its a shame because it means that products that were released two years ago still don't "reliably" work on many forms of Linux

There is a common misunderstanding that Linux is of itself an OS when it is actually an OS Kernel. All the various flavours of Linux are essentially separate OS's and while they maintain some inherent compatibility due to the common Kernel and UNIX lineage and its generally easy to port something from one flavour to another, it does not mean that all Linux's work the same and there will be issues (as Hugh is 'enjoying' right now).

Hugh, if I were your IT consultant, my suggestion would be to go with your Webhost's recommended configuration and hold them accountable if there are issues. While I personally believe that it will all work fine under the newer versions, I think from a business risk and contigency planning standpoint, you are better off taking the safer route. If, however, you can source an alternate route of support or have the means to support yourself (and you feel the new features are worth it to you) then you could consider upgrading versions.

GQUEUE, that's exactly the route I am taking since stability is my paramount concern.

This is NOT meant to be a Windows Vs. Linux bashing because I still believe that for this application (reasonably priced web serving and database connectivity), open source software is the way to go but I really believe the problems I am having is a huge mark against the Open source / linux community.

They pride themselves on the "stability" of Linux but in fact its not true. What is true is the stability of certain versions of certain applications on certain flavours of Linux. Maybe I'm splitting hairs but these were not really issues when I worked in mainframe, OS/400 and RS/6000 environments.

Again, I think your issue is more with Novell/Suse rather than Open Source/Linux. The only reason SUSE Enterprise works better than SUSE Open Source is because of something Novell is including/not including with the Enterprise edition. They both use the same Linux Kernel.

Comparing OS/400 and RS/6000 are not fair because both are designed to work with proprietary hardware from a single vendor (who happens to control the OS and the hardware). So it would be really surprising if it weren't rock solid stable.

Also, I don't think the open source movement prides itself on stability. I think they pride themselves in freedom (free as in speech not beer as the saying goes). Because of this freedom, people can choose to do as they wish (which ultimately leads to instability because there is nothing binding people to standards).

Of course, none of this helps your situation. You are just a victim of it. Good luck with your migration.

GQueue, you make some great points and to a large extent, I agree so I won't split hairs because I think you have a balanced approached unlike some in the anti-capitalist, anti-MS, anti-"the man" camp!

Thanks for your insights. I'm hoping the migration goes well also!

Finding the perfect combo for your specific business needs is an IT job. You are not running a desktop here, you're running a business site, so it seems unfair to me to compare an IT project like this with desktop useability for end users.

The four pillars of LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, and PHP) are separate products developed by entirely different teams for different reasons. They evolve at their own rates, and they change/add/remove feature sets independantly of eachother but with similar goals: making the respective products better, more versatile, and more stable.

The developers of your two key apps picked a version level that they felt was most suitable, but they don't use their resources to support these ever changing LAMP scenarios coming up. It would be unrealistic for any smaller outfit to try that.

I just don't see any black marks against Linux in your scenario given its IT nature.

BTW, anyone wanting to run a fully integrated LAMP setup on the desktop can just use the packages provided by their major distribution - I use Mandriva and I can have a full LAMP setup in about 20 minutes of downloading and then doing the configuration of specific things. It is not IT level stuff but it "just works" for Joe Linuxuser. Whether it supports vBulletin and other such apps is moot because it is not meant to run a business.

you're running a business site, so it seems unfair to me to compare an IT project like this with desktop useability for end users.

Actually I did compare it to OS/400 and AIX and GQueue told me it was an unfair comparision because both are designed to work with proprietary hardware from a single vendor!

I used to support those on RS/6000... I was referring more specifically to posts #4 through 6.