My dealer

Are you buying drugs or a piece of electronics?

Is there only 1 dealer in the Ottawa area?

There are of course a number of electronic dealers in the Ottawa area (drug dealers as well I imagine). Nevertheless I get very good deals from the owner of the store since I have been purchasing from him for about 15 years.

BTW I am still looking for comments on the receivers that I am considering, only 1 of which is handled by "my dealer".

tcambear I believe that the Pioneer 1016 is a 90%+ copy of the Pioneer EliteVSX80TXV ? I hope someone could chime in and tell me if I'm wrong. It would save you about $300.

The Denon AVR2307CI and Marantz SR5001 are some good receivers. I probably couldn't decide between the two without really examining their options and which ones I would actually use. (I've always had a soft spot for Marantz).
I would also add the Yamaha 1600 to this list. The Yamaha 1600 is being discounted because the new 1700 should be out soon.

...I believe that the Pioneer 1016 is a 90%+ copy of the Pioneer EliteVSX80TXV

According to pioneer.ca you are correct. Almost exact specs between the two.

VSX-1016 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069809_316743263_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_V3_Pr oductDetailsComponent)

VSX-80 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069789_310966022_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_V3_Pr oductDetailsComponent)

Not true. You do not need HDMI 1.3 receivers to enjoy the next gen sound formats. Current receivers like the Yamaha RX-V 2700 or 1700, any current Denon HDMI receivers or the Pioneer Elite 82 or 84 receivers will do just fine. As far as i understand, as long as your HD dvd player or Bluray player decodes the sound first, then you are good to go. There's a pretty long thread about this over at AVS forum.
I never said you HAD to have 1.3 HDMI to enjoy the new formats. I never said you couldn't enjoy the new formats with today's hardware either. What I said was if you wanted to upgrade your AVR why buy a soon to be obsolete unit now when in a few months you can get one with the latest stuff incorporated.

farscaper

I will add the 1016 to my list - thank you.

tcambear,

Strike the 1016 from your list because it does not accept audio on HDMI, as conveyed in post #35 of this thread. For recommendations, I think ten7rider was right on (quoted below)... I have experience with the XR-57 and the SQ and power of the receiver is quite remarkable for the cost. Plus it produces very little heat so if it needs to be in a tight spot then it has some real benefit. It's very shy on useablity and features though. But most importantly for you is that it does no processing at all on the HDMI audio. This means it acts just like an analog input on most receivers. There's no bass management, no time alignment (speaker distance) and no room correction when using the HDMI audio. Unless you have full-range speakers all around, then the XR-57 isn't a very good long-term option for HDMI...

Unfortunately receivers that do HDMI and do it properly may be just a little out of your price range for a little while longer...

Not true. You do not need HDMI 1.3 receivers to enjoy the next gen sound formats. Current receivers like the Yamaha RX-V 2700 or 1700, any current Denon HDMI receivers or the Pioneer Elite 82 or 84 receivers will do just fine. As far as i understand, as long as your HD dvd player or Bluray player decodes the sound first, then you are good to go. There's a pretty long thread about this over at AVS forum.
This is absolutely correct. Really I disagree with the logic that a 1.1 receiver will be outdated soon. 1.3 really provides very little benefit. As I posted in a different thread:
One point of clarity though, about the HDMI standard. It must be noted that for many years, all that will ever be needed to support HD audio is HDMI 1.1. This is because 1.1 supports high-res uncompressed 7.1 channel LPCM audio, and all of the players that use the new audio codecs currently have (and will continue to have) the ability to decode the audio data and output it with LPCM. Furthermore, because certain advanced features with the new HD movie formats actually require the player to do the audio decoding, the new ability to transmit the raw encoded audio data stream which is provided by HDMI 1.3, is pretty much useless and will probably never be used.

...the new ability to transmit the raw encoded audio data stream which is provided by HDMI 1.3, is pretty much useless and will probably never be used.

Not sure a BD player owner would agree with you. Contrary to HD DVD players, the BD player needs to have an a/v capable to decode the new codecs via HDMI 1.3.

Untrue mfabien, due to the advanced audio features (interactive audio). From Dolby's webpage (read the whole 3 pages for more info): http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/AVRs/trueHD_avrs_1.html
More importantly, the fact that players will be mixing the audio internally means that it will no longer be possible (or necessary) to output raw audio bitstreams from the player as is typical with DVD-Video. As a result, consumers can no longer assume that every player will work with every A/V receiver.
Dolby is referencing the fact that in order to use interactive audio, the players will do the decoding themselves and not output the raw bitstream. From further in the page:

[In reference to HDMI 1.3] Eventually, A/V receivers will have direct access to Dolby® Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. We are working with the IEC and HDMI organizations to update data protocols to enable future versions of these high-bandwidth interfaces to carry these bitstreams.

To decode these bitstreams, the A/V decoder will need to support the updated data protocols, as well as incorporate these new decoding algorithms. In addition, it will be necessary to select HD discs in which the content maker has permitted the core 5.1 or 7.1 audio bitstreams to bypass the player’s mixing process and be sent directly to the digital outputs of the player. We expect that certain HD discs will permit this, but they may represent a minority of titles.
So not only will certain features be disabled, but a majority of the discs may actually prevent the bitstream from being transmitted.

For all these reasons, it will be absolutely necessary for players to do their own encoding, and it would be folley to purchase a BD or HD-DVD player that doesn't support decoding DD+, DD Tru-HD, DTS-HD and DTS-MA, regardless of whether decoding support is actually mandated by the manufacture license. The PS3 doesn't do DTS-MA yet but an update is coming to enable it. Ironically the PS3 doesn't even try to pass the raw bitstream either, and once it can do that it'll do DTS-MA anyways, as should every other player.

My HD-A1 does the decoding of the new codecs...

Too late to edit... When I said "it will be absolutely necessary for players to do their own encoding" I mispoke. It should read "do their own decoding." The moral of the store is that the players and not the receivers will be doing the decoding in the future, so HDMI 1.1 receivers are fine and will not be outdated any time soon.

But there will be, eventually, DTS Music disk in DTS-HD MA and that will require a capable receiver.

Steely Dan, Eagles and others presently have sensational DTS Music disks.

I'm looking at getting the Harmon Kardon AVR 645 receiver but I know it doesn't support 1080P switching. I only have an PS3, so can I connect the PS3 directly to my Sharp 42" 62U with HDMI for audio and video? Or will I have to connect the audio back to my receiver with optical or something else?

Will the Hardmon Kardon 645 receiver be fine for me if I don't want to wait for a receiver that has 1080P switching?

Thanks

Viper04

With the markup in Canada on HK products, you are approaching the next class of audio quality products with the price of the AVR 645.

I would do a little more comparison shopping.

mfabien, you're saying that they will release DTS-MA soundtracks for music discs on SD DVD? I highly doubt it, and even if they did then you'd use your HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player anyways. All of this talk assumes you'll have a player that uses the new Audio codecs anyways.

Presently you can buy DTS Music disk's, they are CD's not SD DVD's.

Yes I can play my DTS Music disks in my HD-A1. In fact I find Steely Dan's "Everything Must Go" with 5.1 multichannel analogs an extraordinary listening experience.

But some people do not have an HD DVD player, some may have a Samsung BD player which cannot decode the new codecs. Others may not have an HD player at all. For all those, an a/v capable of decoding the new lossless audio will be precious.

As for DTS Music disks, if they were justified to exist up to now, they will be justified to be in DTS-HD MA in the future.

Having said this, I quite agree that getting an HD DVD player is a sound investment from an audio standpoint. If one's receiver has HDMI switching, than any HD DVD model is fine. If not, one should select a player with 5.1 multichannel analogs.

Mr. Perfect: I can get it off e&ay for $1,100 with shipping & duties/taxes.

I also just found Denon AVR 887 and 987 that HAVE HDMI switching to 1080P ie HDMI v1.1 and are in my price range. Is there any reason not to get the Denon AVR 887?

If it has HDMI switching I can hook up my HD-DVD to receiver to TV ie HDMI. Thats exactly what I"m looking for.

Viper

You have me somewhat confused. Didn't you post this in another thread on Jan 9

This is my current setup:

Harmon Kardon AVR 645
Paradigm Cinema 330 LCR
Paradigm Cinema 330 LCR
Paradigm Cinema 330 LCR
Paradigm CinemaADP Rears & Surrounds (4x)
Paradigm PDR-10 v.3
Premier™ Stand LS-25, Surrounds L&R
Premier™ Stand LS-25, Left & Rights
Xbox 360 /W HD-DVD


As for buying on EBay, be aware of the current scams on HK/Denon/Marantz/Onkyo

US B refurb stock imported into Canada and then sold on ******** as "New"
These units carry no Canadian warranty.

That was the setup I was going to buy until I read more threads on these forums. Everytime I think I have it down, I read one more thread that has something else that doesn't work or does work and it changes.

As for ebay, they specify they arn't refurbished and are new. And some have warranties. But all in all, I'm warry about buying that big of purchase off ebay. Buying Denon or Harman in Canada is pricey!

I found some definitions to look for:

Upconvert -
To convert one set of values to a higher set of values. For example, HDTV sets upconvert broadcast TV (480i) and DVDs (480i or 480p) to the highest format the set supports (720p, 1080i or 1080p). Also called "upscale," upconverting is an upsampling operation. Contrast with downconvert. See upsampling.

Upsampling -
(1) To make a digital image larger by adding pixels. With a quality image or photo editor, upsampling can produce a decent image. However, since pixels are created by software, no matter how good the algorithms, the larger the increase in size, the softer the resulting image. The digital zoom in a camera is an upsampling operation. Upconverting from standard TV to high-definition TV is also upsampling. Contrast with downsample. See upconvert.

(2) To make a digital audio sample larger by increasing its value. Audio upsampling is done when converting various audio sources to a common format. Contrast with downsample. See sampling.


From what I have read the Denon 887/987 with be fine for 1080P video but want to the audio properly. The Pioneer VSX-82TXS will do work with all in 1080P through HDMI.

I just want someone to tell me what receiver to buy as I can't decide.

Viper

I was looking into the pioneer elite option and I dont need a lot of power so I was thinking of the 80. I am confused what 'Pass Through' means on the HDMI inputs. Does this mean that it will not use the sound from the HDMI like the higher end models which do not mention 'pass through'?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/album/compare/0,,2076_310069789,00.html