: Current New A/V Receiver Buying Discussion
2007-01-10, 09:04 PM
Since AVRs will work fine with 4 ohm speakers as indicated above
Not necessarily true.
A nominal 4 ohms speaker having the same efficiency as a nominal 8 ohm speaker will require 1.6 X more amperage to attain the same volume level.
Receivers and amplifiers having inexpensive power supplies (ie small or no transformers) are designed to have their voltage rails held at a common constant voltage.
To hit the magic output figures demanded by the marketing departments, they measure output with a constant 6 ohms load to approximate the actions of a typical 8 ohm speaker across the frequency band. They will hit their rated output (2 channels driven) at their maximum rated output amperage. They do not have 66% extra current capacity at this point waiting for some 4 ohm load to appear.
They will not report a figure for 4 ohms as the actual speaker load could be under 3 ohms at certain frequencies (under 2 for some electrostatics). Running 4 ohm speakers (& especially 5 speakers) in these units will result in:
1) shutdowns as the thermal protection takes hold
2) lower sound levels as the preprogrammed current limiting clicks in
3) in worse case scenario, output voltage clipping which will overheat the speaker windings and possibly lead to speaker damage.
Receivers having the capacity to handle 4 ohm speakers properly will:
1) have transformers - the larger the better
2) be heavy - compared to their lighter cheaper receiver competitors
3) will show a higher power capacity figure for 4 ohms vs 8 ohms.
Some brands that meet this criteria under $1000 are
1) Harmon Kardon
3) Sherwood Newcastle
By dropping the bells and whistles, you can purchase a good quality receiver for under $1k which will maximize your enjoyment of what those speakers can do.
Basically what you say reflects the power ratings of the AVRs. Since AVR power ratings are basically lies (er exaggerations in most cases), the only difference is the TRUE power handling capacity at various impedences.
Since most people never come close to driving their AVRs to clipping, then this doesn't really matter. For the type of people who DO drive their AVRs to clipping, the impedence wouldn't really matter, rather the speaker efficiency would probably matter more since it will be "loud enough" earlier.
If people drive their systems that hard, it rarely matters what AVR (or amp) you have and the audiophile would be aware of the items that really matter when choosing such an amp and what would matter is probably not, whether an AVR has a "4 ohm" rating stamped on it, in much the same way that it doesn't really matter if THX is stamped on it. ;)
The AVRs you mention are good ones, especially at the $1000 range. I believe Yamaha should also be included there.
2007-01-11, 10:27 AM
Receiver I have in mind is Yamaha RXV659/HTR5960, it has programmable switch from 8 to 6/4 ohm.
From page 117 of manual:
Dynamic Power (IHF) 8/6/4/2 Ω...... 135/170/200/245 W
One of mine major concerns was warranty: if I overloaded rec-r and have to claim warranty, it will be pretty obvious how it happened.
I only have 1 set of front speakers.
2007-01-11, 10:32 AM
It is almost impossible to overload your receiver unless you REALLY play your source material at consistent volumes that will make you deaf. In fact, you'll probably go deaf first before you overload your receiver.
If you only have one set of front speakers, you can leave the setting at 8 ohms.
And never pay too much attention to the power ratings that amps and receivers advertise as they are usually a load of bunk, as 57 has stated.
You'll note that the Yamaha has a spec for 2 ohms. This is an indication that they have low impedence speakers in mind in their designs. Any good receiver will do the trick though, as mentioned in the posts above in various ways.
2007-01-11, 11:18 AM
Denon AVR-2807 (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/denon-avr-2807-receiver-10-2006-part-1.html) - entry level receiver of the year on Secrets (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/secrets-best-of-2006-awards-12-2006.html).
It is US$999, might not fit your budget.
Also have a look at Yamaha RX-V659 for about half that.
<Ooops.. Just noticed you already have this model on your list.>
2007-01-11, 01:09 PM
Don't go cheap on the receiver. Your receiver is the engine of your sound. You will not hear full potential of your speakers if you use receiver that not on par with your speakers. You would not put "bronze" level fuel into F-1 racing car, wouldn't you?
2007-01-11, 02:57 PM
Why not get a decent receiver and a standalone 2 ch amp? Run all the other surrounds off the receiver. That way you will never come close to maxing out the amps in the receiver and will have strong clean sound out of all the speakers, especially your front mains.
I'm sure some of the guys here could suggest some brands without breaking the bank.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Good suggestion. Another item is that with most people running amplified subwoofers, the power requirements of the speakers, especially if set to "small" are typically also small.
2007-01-11, 07:04 PM
Denon, Or Denon.
2007-01-11, 07:23 PM
HK AVR 245 might be worth looking at.
2007-01-11, 08:13 PM
What about Marantz? They have a couple of units in your price range. I don't know much about the line myself, but I've heard some people speak favourably about the product.
2007-01-12, 09:37 PM
iam runnning 4 pdigms titans, pdigm ps1000 sub pdigm cc170 center and have a denonavr1906 and it is amazing for sound, we pretty much have same speakers so i know if you went with a denon you would be extremely happy Dragon
2007-01-13, 04:32 AM
I'm running a Marantz sr5001. it has hdmi capabilities and costed about 675$. I'm quite happy with it. THe pioneer vsx-1016 is a few bucks cheaper and is THX certified but i didn't opt for it because the front panel has millions of buttons on it and also, pioneer's car audio division is crap so i'm skeptical about their home theatre division!
2007-01-13, 09:05 PM
I am looking for advice on what model to buy in respect with clean sound quality only, without taking into consideration the video options or quality.
Here are the models I have to choose from:
Denon avr 587
Any help in this decision would be greatly appreicated
2007-01-13, 09:28 PM
The best advice I can give is go and audition them. Of course you need to listen to as many of them using the same speakers so as to hear the difference.
You'd be amazed at how different the sound quality can be between various equipment.
2007-01-13, 10:00 PM
My first choice would be the Yamaha HTR-5950B. What speakers will these be driving? The Yamaha RX-V457 you listed is an older model, perhaps you meant an RX-V459?
2007-01-13, 10:45 PM
To add to my previous request, I am currently using a pioneer vsx-d414, I am using new precision acoustics speakers,pa6xt front 250w,pa6xb rears 125w, matching center, 8" pioneer subwoofer(not very good).
Will I notice a difference in the sound quality going from this receiver to one of the one's I listed.
2007-01-13, 11:33 PM
The Yamaha is a very nice receiver, but you're not likely to experience a huge difference in audio quality with a $350-400 receiver. Upgrading your speakers would make far more difference.
2007-01-14, 01:01 PM
While it will only be my humble opinion.....there is a common misconception that upgrading speakers will make sound dramatically improve.
Since speakers are a window into the source, if the source is poor, there is nothing that a good set of speakers is going to solve.
While you should of course always attempt to match similar quality components, I think you'll be surpised to find that a good quality amplifier with average speakers will (in general) sound better than an average amplifier with great speakers.
Go and have a listen, it's amazing how much the amplifier makes a difference using the same speakers.
I do agree that spending another $50 or $100 won't improve your quality.
The biggest thing? Have fun getting your new stuff.