Is the picture quality going to be the same between ,mpeg 2 and mpeg 4,or sharper?

Should be the same... the new receivers may be better...but that won't have to do with the compression type.

Its compressesd more so I don't see how it can possibly be as "good" as MPEG2. With the reduced bitrates of all the satellite providers and now MPEG4, I think we need a new term: HD-ExtraLite

Well, over at SatGuys, the Dish people that have seen some of there MPEG2 channels changed to MPEG4, seem to agree it looks better. The compression is greater but the technology is different too.

-Mike

So if it looks better, then the provider is pumping up the bandwidth. They would be able to do this since they are using higher compression.

Its compressesd more so I don't see how it can possibly be as "good" as MPEG2. With the reduced bitrates of all the satellite providers and now MPEG4, I think we need a new term: HD-ExtraLite

Come on peano, you know better.

MPEG4 is a more advance, improved compression technology. Because is more compressed it doesn't mean it will look bad. It is more efficiently compressed.

It doesn't matter what codec is used, all it comes down to is how BEV implement it. MPEG4 can be better, worse or on par with the current MPEG2, regardless of the bitrate.

Good point!

Since BEV buys all its hardware from Dish, the Dish experience should be apretty good measure of what to expect when BEV implements MPEG4.

That would only account for the technical merits of the receiver technology and has little bearing on the skill of the encoder operator to maximise the P.Q., and we won't know if they have purchased 1st or 2nd generation MPEG4 encoders.

Good gear operated poorly=bad P.Q.

So does this mean when BEV moves to MPEG4 that they are fooling around with every single HD pixel they send to the home?

I was under the impression that current HD content providers -- aka TMN, Discovery, TSN, CBC et al -- delivered their signals to Bell, Rogers, etc., over fibre, in most cases, and therefore pre-encoded at 1080i or 720p in MPEG2 -- 19 mbps or 13 mbps accordingly and the TV service provider passed this straight on to the customer.

So, again I ask: does that mean every HD signal will be played around with by Bell ExpressVu? I understand Bell is desperate to find any means it can to squeeze more signals onto its satellites or through its century-old copper wires, the same phone lines my grandma called on to order a pound of butter and a dozen eggs ... but somehow I'd rather HDNet was doing the "down-converting" of the signal to MPEG4 than some $10/hr jockey in an edit suite at Bell ....

It happens all the time.
The distributer can and often does massage the signals provided to better fit their business needs.

While I can't speak specifically for Bell, I do know that *C gets a mixture of 720p & 1080i and elects to use all 1080i.

Then the cablecos take them and can stat mux them with other HD & SD content to better utilise their QAM muxes, either 64 or 256 QAM.

They may take a 4mbps SD stream and drop it down to 2.5 mps.

I DO see this all the time on Bell.
I looked at their SD signals with a transport stream anaylzer and the streams are anywhere from a puny 1.8 up to over 4, which SD ought to be.
So they can shape the PQ on any signal depending on what they think they can get away with.

They will most certainly do the same with MPEG4 content.
Encoders can be run at Constant (CBR) or Variable (VBR) bit rates.
They can add DVNR (Noise Reduction) or not.
They can use or ignore Dolby flags and Dial Norm settings.

On top of that, they can mess with goofy non standard resolution that their STB's can handle like 1280x1080 (The infamous DTV HD-Lite)

Even their SD, while originally at 720x480 oftens comes at 544x480.
Bragging rights to the MOST... always comes at some cost.

I bought a 9200 last October and I'm under warranty until October this year. What if suddenly it breaks or stops working within 1 month of the warranty period. Will I get the new model replacement free of charge (taking in consideration that it is still under warranty)? Are they going to make me hand out some money to get the new receiver on an exchange program?

Just some questions, that I had.........

Thanks
Joe

Personnally (not as an agent) I think they won't replace any unit unless they break. If a client under warranty have a defective unit then they might replace it with the new model.

They will probably offer incentive (rebates) for client's to update their model, but not a general swap

Client with dish care that have a defective unit will most probably get the new model to replace.

For clients that are no longer under warranty I doubt that they will offer anything.

Again this is only my personnal view, my taughts seeing how the compagny operates, not an official compagny's position

$10 for 32 HD channels? I think not! You have to have the movie networks for the HD movie channels. You have to have the time shifting for the HD time shifting. PPV movie channels don't count since they are pay per use. And several other options for the other HD channels. So...ultimately, you're paying a lot more than $10 for 32 HD channels.

Of course you have to sub. to TMN to get the 2 movie channels in HD no provider is going to give you TMN channels for FREE...As far as the time shifting goes you DON'T have to pay the $1/month for SD timeshifting...You get FREE timeshifting included in the $10 Hd package.

What are these "several other options" you speak of??

Let's count:
1)NBC East 815
2)NBC West 820
3)Fox East 818
4)Fox West 823
5)ABC East 816
6)ABC West 821
7)CBS East 817
8)CBS West822
9)PBS East 819
10)PBS West 824
11)Discovery 853
12)CTV Toronto 800
13)CTV Vancouver 805
14)CBC Toronto 802
15)Global Toronto 801
16)City TV Toronto 803
17)WGN 825
18)VU 830
19)VU 831
20)VU 833
21)Free VU concerts 805
22)A&E 813
23)Treasure 809
24)Rush 811
25)Equator 812
26)Oasis 810
27)HD net 814
28)CBC West 804

So far 28 channels that all HD clients have


Add:
29)TSN 850
30)Sportsnet 851
**That you will get only if you have the SD package Sports 1**

31)Movie central 841 or Movie network 840
32)Movie central 842
**That you will get only if you have the movie packages**

33)Raptors TV
**That you will get if you suscribe to the SD Raptors channel**

34)Leafs TV
**That Ontarian clients will get if they have the SD version**

Agent Express V,

you should watch your wording.

myself and many legacy customers DO NOT have:

22)A&E 813
24)Rush 811
25)Equator 812
27)HD net 814

I have to pay $1.99 for Discovery as well.

Let's count:
1)NBC East 815
2)NBC West 820
3)Fox East 818
4)Fox West 823
5)ABC East 816
6)ABC West 821
7)CBS East 817
8)CBS West822
9)PBS East 819
10)PBS West 824
11)Discovery 853
12)CTV Toronto 800
13)CTV Vancouver 805
14)CBC Toronto 802
15)Global Toronto 801
16)City TV Toronto 803
17)WGN 825
18)VU 830
19)VU 831
20)VU 833
21)Free VU concerts 805
22)A&E 813
23)Treasure 809
24)Rush 811
25)Equator 812
26)Oasis 810
27)HD net 814
28)CBC West 804

So far 28 channels that all HD clients have


Add:
29)TSN 850
30)Sportsnet 851
**That you will get only if you have the SD package Sports 1**

31)Movie central 841 or Movie network 840
32)Movie central 842
**That you will get only if you have the movie packages**

33)Raptors TV
**That you will get if you suscribe to the SD Raptors channel**

34)Leafs TV
**That Ontarian clients will get if they have the SD version**

According to the last time I spoke to a rep, who was rather aggressive about this point, said that I have to pay for time shifting which would give you the time shifting on both HD and SD. If that's wrong, then that would prove my (and many others) point from that other thread regarding reps giving mixed and incorrect information. Which would bring the channels to:

1)NBC East 815
2)Fox East 818
3)ABC East 816
4)CBS East 817
5)PBS East 819
6)Discovery 853
7)CTV Toronto 800
8)CTV Vancouver 805
9)CBC Toronto 802
10)Global Toronto 801
11)City TV Toronto 803
12)WGN 825
13)A&E 813
14)Treasure 809
15)Rush 811
16)Equator 812
17)Oasis 810
18)HD net 814
19)CBC West 804

Saying that customers get the VU channels with the $10 is kinda lame seeing that you have to PAY for the movies on the VU channels. Looks like that makes for 20 channels. Also, the "free Vu concerts" is also lame seeing that you see 1 concert a month. So actually, it's more like 19. And btw, customers have to pay $1 for the leafs channel and you get both SD and HD just to be clear.

So to sum up, in order to get all the channels above, you would need to have the Sports Package 1, Movie networks, buy VU movies, get time shifting, leafs TV (for us Ontari'ans), and possible the Raptors channel (not sure about this one though). So, $10 for over 30 channels? I think not. And it would get worse if you're on a legacy plan. So possibly even less than 19!!!!!!!


Maybe with the new receivers, new plans will come out which will change all this?

Just logged into Rogers.

They have 49 HD channels

Bev has treasure, oasis, and rush extra from what I can tell. Maybe more.

Rogers has: HD Omni 1 &2, Sun TV, NG HD MMore HD and Showcase HD.

I picked toronto as location so you can't compare french.

As a BEV subsriber I would much much rather have the extra Roger HD channels. I don't ever recall watching anything on oasis and treasure.

I have Oasis, I think it is a great channel. A bit repetitive but always full time HD content which looks spectacular.
In my opinion if were talking total HD channels than you have to include the french channels, their claim is "Most HD" not "Most HD in english".

Regardless, bottom line is that they have a solid HD lineup compared to the competition. In my city Shaw has a measly 6 HD channels.