Ok, so the new receivers are coming out in July... what does that mean for consumers who already have the other HD receivers?

And mpeg 4 compatible!

Unfortunately I think it means a period of wait and see, in my opinion.
These are mpeg 4 compatible so I would expect them to push new sales and progress into the mpeg 4 market with new channels.

I think they'll move expired renters over first and wait to see how many existing owners move themselves.
Once the "old" HD consumers are assessed they'll make a decision.
1) Either freeze us out and say upgrade yourselves,
2) offer an incentive to upgrade receivers at reduced rate or
3) a complete swap.

My bet would be option 1 or 2.
But since these are mpeg 4 I don't see any rush to deal with existing receivers and a certain percentage of that market will sort itself out with no cost to Bell.

Just my opinion.

I will be affected by both issues. I rent the 9200 and bought the 6100. My contract expires in September.

Sort itself out? How so? I for one, will not be very happy if they shaft me on this (which I have expressed numerous times in this thread). I can't see Bell sitting by and letting customers pay for it.

I mean from Bells perspective which, naturally, is to spend as little cash as possible.
So long as no new channels come out in mpeg 4, us mpeg 2 people have nothing to complain about, it's when a new channel comes out in mpeg 4 that we'll howl and I'll be one of the first.

But looking at it strictly in business sense, if they just migrate all current channels to mpeg 4 and stay like that for as long as possible, or continue on in mpeg 2 for awhile, alot of people may just upgrade themselves, thus saving Bell the expense if they do a swap or upgrade incentive.
I wonder when they plan to actually GO mpeg 4, just because the capability is there doesn't mean they'll get mpeg 4 channels going any time soon.

If that were to happen and the HD mpeg 2 crowd became small enough, Bell may just gamble that of that smaller group only a portion will actually walk and that group may not warrant the expense of buying them out. Thus Bell could end up offering no incentives if the course plays out a certain way.

Personally, I've spent enough with Bell.

Maybe they should just wait for MPEG-5 ;)

You have a valid point, I'm not a lawyer but it seems like were walking a fine line here.
What's stopping Bell from doing it all again after X many years?
They created/developed a national HD market in mpeg 2, they sold hundreds of thousands of receivers......now they are saying "So sorry, mpeg 4 now."

Now I have to upgrade to continue getting HD?

So your point is valid, what is stopping Bell from going mpeg 4 now, selling millions of receivers this time, and then in 'X" years saying "So sorry, mpeg 10 now."

In my opinion, Bell ExpressVu will never swap out the HD receivers for free. It would set a precedent that they do not want. I expect that renters will be swapped for free when their contracts expire (if they renew) and owners (like most of us) will pay something like the following:


$149 (6x00 to 6141)
$199 (9200 to 9241)
$249 (6x00 to 9241 and 9200 to 9242)
$299 (6x00 to 9242)


Hopefully less, but personally I wouldn't find my listed prices to be too unbearable, and it gives me the ability to spread the cost over a few months (do one 9200 in July and the other in December, for instance). What I would like (and need!) is some cable (or something!) that would allow me to transfer currently recorded content from my 9200 to the new receiver! If that doesn't happen, I may never upgrade since my wife is constantly recording stuff and is weeks behind.

For those that do upgrade, Bell should include some kind of incentive though (eg. 5 free HD PPV movies). It would take some of the bite out of the cost.

[Aside] With HDTV prices falling so fast, Bell (and all other providers) need to understand that their new HD customers are no longer as affluent as they once calculated them to be. Someone who goes out and buys a sub-$1400 50" RP HDTV, probably isn't going to quickly agree to buy a $500 HD terminal and $80/month TV service. HD programming prices must come down.

- dvdrat

Another part of the equation is the reaction by the competition.

Rogers, Shaw, etc all know that Bell is advancing in a major new direction and will follow with a major marketing blitz to get these new receivers into homes, and one very large target will be incentives to get people to switch.

Some providers will be slightly out done by these receivers and some will be majorly outdone by these receivers.
So the ball will be in Bells competitors court, what will they do to hold onto their customers?

Personally I'm going to wait, weigh all options and take the best solution for me and my wallet. If it's Bell, great, if not, well, too bad for Bell.

For me, some kind of swap will be necessary.

If there is no swap at all, and Bell takes a chance on me walking, I won't be walking away from just ExpressVu, but also from Mobility, Sympatico High Speed, and home phone.

So they'll be losing about $250 a month from me alone.

I'm willing to pay a small fee to switch to a new receiver, but even dvdrat's numbers are, in my opinion, too high.

For the basic, non-pvr receiver, I'll expect a free swap, for the pvr's, maybe $100 to $150 or so. No more.

But that's just me.

Norm

They created/developed a national HD market in mpeg 2, they sold hundreds of thousands of receivers......now they are saying "So sorry, mpeg 4 now."
Assuming they preserve the existing HD content and add NEW HD content in MPEG4, which IMHO is the most likely scenario as that's essentially what Dish did, how is this any different than you used to listen to music on vinyl, then CD, then MP3 downloads and DVD's?

You used to watch television in B&W, then colour and now HD.

You used to store your computer data on 360K floppies, then 1.44 M, then CD, then DVD's... ad nauseum.

As long as you can continue status quo for some "reasonable time" then it's entirely up to you wether you see value in upgrading.

I was faced with the same decision when I started looking at HDTV's.
I didn't NEED to get one to enjoy the current programming, but the proposition of HD programs was presonally compelling enough to take the $$ plunge.


$149 (6x00 to 6141)
$199 (9200 to 9241)
$249 (6x00 to 9241 and 9200 to 9242)
$299 (6x00 to 9242)Hopefully less, but personally I wouldn't find my listed prices to be too unbearable

Seems a bit steep compared to the *C upgrade offer.
I hear you can upgrade to their HD 8PSK unit for $ 99 and KEEP your old QPSK or receiver/decoder combo.
Their is allegedly and upgrade path to their HD PVR that is already 8PSK & MPEG4 ready at a reasonable price and you still get to keep your old gear.

So what will Bell do with all the trade-ins?
Flog them as refurb's in some multi-room package deals?
If they do, you should be entitled to get something for that.
IMHO, any offered upgrade price is purely a retention incentive and for the upgrade pain and suffering.

I think the price of the HD value pack is quite reasonnable... 10$ and you could get as much as 32 HD channels. On other themes you pay 5$ or 8$ for in some theme pack as low as 4 channels

This is a personnal comment, not a compagny statement:As far as the upgrade goes I think they will probably offer our trade in programm offer. They offer 70$ for the 6000 models and 100$ for the 6100. Sorry I don't have the quotes for the 9200. They might offer rebates on receivers themselves on top of that, but I doubt it

I'm willing to pay a small fee to switch to a new receiver, but even dvdrat's numbers are, in my opinion, too high.

Like I said, "hopefully less", but this is Bell ExpressVu we're talking about. For pricing relief from these guys, you just can't set your expectations low enough.

So what will Bell do with all the trade-ins?

For 9200's, I figure that they will swap out the motherboard and front panel and...voila...instant, refurbished 9241.

- dvdrat

My personal response to that incentive pkg is that StarChoice has an mpeg 4 compatible receiver for net price of 89$.
Put my receivers/dishes up on Ebay and I'll bet I can make a few bucks off the deal. I'd wager someone will still buy mpeg 2 receivers, if not I'm still only forking out 90 bucks.
Rogers has "Ditch the Dish", free pvr for 2 years.

Can I be assured that the "upgradability" won't actually cost me something in the future? No, but I'll gamble on that. What would I do after 2 years with Rogers....I'll think of something.
And if worst comes to worst, I'll come back to Expressvu in a few years as a new subscriber under my wife's name and get access to their new customer promo's.

Point being, these companies can try to nickel and dime their customers or just suck it up to a small degree and ensure a continued monthly revenue. Customers have enough access to competition to play these companies against one another, they should realize that and admit that the monthly programming fee is what matters the most.

It's all up to Bell and it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I think the price of the HD value pack is quite reasonnable... 10$ and you could get as much as 32 HD channels. On other themes you pay 5$ or 8$ for in some theme pack as low as 4 channels

$10 for 32 HD channels? I think not! You have to have the movie networks for the HD movie channels. You have to have the time shifting for the HD time shifting. PPV movie channels don't count since they are pay per use. And several other options for the other HD channels. So...ultimately, you're paying a lot more than $10 for 32 HD channels.

I surely hope they give a lot more than $100 for the 6100...

so in my case where i paid $600 for a 9200, no contract.

Bell will want me to trade it in and get maybe $200 for it, pay extra for the 622 model, and only rent the machine?

Or will I still own it.

I dont rent and I dont do contracts.

If bell is going to screw its customers over, well for me I am gone.

Bye Bye.

how is this any different than you used to listen to music on vinyl, then CD, then MP3 downloads and DVD's?

We knew tape was coming looooong before it did come out. Same with CD's etc. No one hid the fact that there would be a format change until the last minute and then told you after the fact they had just skrud you. Bev can switch from mpg2 to 4 more or less in a heart beat in they have the gear in place. That was not the case in any of the previous scenarios.

Keep in mind while the 9200 may not be the device to have in an hd equiped home after the move to mpg4. It would make a killer PVR in a house that is still all SD. If there is a swap Bev will get value from the returned devices. If Bev was to give you $100 and turn around and sell them for $200 there would be riots in the streets faster than you can say class action lawsuit.

Let's assume HD units running MPEG-4 start selling in July; and by October Bell is only selling/renting MPEG-4 units with existing supplies of MPEG-2 units being recycled as rentals.

How soon is it feasible that ExpressVu will launch its first MPEG-4 HD channel(s)? Showcase/National Geographic/MMore/The Score each have their value. Does Bell have transponder space to add 3 to 6 HD channels?

It also depends, I guess, on how many units Bell has been able to get from Dish; HD and HD PVRs have been in short supply for about a year across the industry.

The extra record time on the HD PVR is nice -- up to 30 hrs HD from 25 currently. I tend to archive stuff but the reality is I really only need enough of a window for recent records.

From what I have heard from a unvalidated insider at BEV on the web (he is not a CSR or TSR, he develops iTV aplications and firmware upgrades.

He said Video-On-Demand is on its way to BEV. I asked the fella about new receivers and he said something about part of the hard-drive will be partitioned for VOD.

I think the price of the HD value pack is quite reasonnable... 10$ and you could get as much as 32 HD channels.
I been trying to better understand all the Bell HD hoopla, so I grabbed some brochures to compare.

If Bev offers 32 HD's for $10 then that's ~ $0.31 per channel not too bad I suppose.

The other guys claim to offer 18 HD's for FREE, so that would $0.00 per channel, pretty darn good I'd say.
Now they do have 3 more for $5 and that would be $1.66 per channel, not very good at all,
BUT
add them together and you'd get 21 HD's for $5 for $0.23 per channel.
So either FREE or $0.23 seems like the better of the deals.

Since we all have to carry some basic package and some SD versions, I feel the comparison, at least w.r.t. HD is quite valid.

No of course that assumes they have the channel you want to watch of course and with recent additions with no blatant HD promo channel like the renamed VOOM stuff and other part-time channels and lets not forget the best of all, NO GLOBAL!

While the 9200 and new gear may have some better features, Isn't it really content that is King?

And I agree that for what we spend per month on recurring costs, the equipment should either be free or dirt friggin' cheap.

Never could understand why a Shaw HD STB was $400 and the *C equivalent was < $200.

I remember paying $800 for my 6000.

It's all about GREED, plain and simple.

And I agree that for what we spend per month on recurring costs, the equipment should either be free or dirt friggin' cheap.

Never could understand why a Shaw HD STB was $400 and the *C equivalent was < $200.

I remember paying $800 for my 6000.

It's all about GREED, plain and simple.
I bought three of the 6000s at just under $800 from EVu way back when. Never again...

My Dish 622 was $149 to lease up front with a $50 credit and an additional $10/mth for 10 months and the lease fee (first unit on account) is $0.00/month as in FREE. I had to agree to a 12 month commitment AND they changed my old dish for free to a 1000.2 three LNB unit.

Let's see what BS Bell tries this time...says a VERY happy Dish sub!!! When I am back in Canada I don't mind my Bell sub...but no comparison as to what costs which and information flow!!!