Just a guess here, but I think TECH 3's have little to no say/knowledge/control over marketing. They would know about a receiver swap IF/WHEN the people who really make the decisions make the decision. Remember, these are customer service/support staff, not management/finance/sales and marketing VP's that we're talking about.

Not saying that it will happen, just that level 3 tech's are about as far from a reliable source as the Atlantic Ocean is from the source of the Amazon.

Agent Express V, maybe you should tell the 3rd level support person that if a swap isn't provided to the HD customer base (or something comparable) and if Bell decides to ultimately move HD to 100 % mpeg4, they will lose more money on people leaving for another Digital TV signal provider than it would cost in the swap.

There are people who are under contract here that would break their contract and pay the remaining balance off to leave Bell. My contract is coming up for renewal in September. If I got shafted like this by Bell, I would change my Bell Sympatico, Bell ExpressVU and my Bell land line accounts to some other provider.

I honest can't possibly fathom Bell doing that to their customers. If a swap is not provided, I think they will ask customers to pay for the swap up front and will credit the customers account for the price of the new receiving over so many months. If this will be the case, I hope this will be a short period of time. That's something I can see Bell doing.

SweetMarie I forgot a few letters there...you should read WASN'T, not WAS...tech 3 confirmed that new receivers will be out shortly, and the agent strated laughing when I asked him about a possible swap asking me if I knew just how much it would cost to move to MPEG4 and have all those current receiver replaced. He then told me it would certainly be too expensive and told me that this is not something they discussed for the near future...


ARR what concern, if SweetMarie didn't read me right does that put on agents you spaek to. You can go over this thread and see that I never mentionned that tech 3 had told me anything about replacement, I always said that swap will not happen! Instead of hitting on agents all the time you should tajk ethe time to think and realise maybe we are only tring to explain you what it is really. I only went on that thread to give you an official version versus speculation that were posted on that thread
Agent Expressvu V: Thank You for clearing that up.

Ltldvel, TECH3 told me that they were not planning to go MPEG4

TECH3 agents are the ones who are responsible for any equipement under warranty or refurbish equipement so if there was a swap planned they will definetly be aware of it. If there was plan for MPEG4 they will also be aware of it, since they would have to work on the network and get everything ready for the MPEG4 technology

If we can find anybody in the administration/marketing, i'll be more than happy to hear their comments. They might have a different work on that, I agree... I tell you what I know and verify my informations if I don't with the group or departement responsible. This is what i'm doing since I got on this forum. I always give right information to my cutsomer and only the information i'm certain about. Some people on this forum don't seem to understand that.

As a customer who also has Express Vu I think that yes, they should do the swap if they go MPEG4. Yes it would be unfair if clients can not acces all the new channels because they are MPEG4 and their receivers is MPEG2. I also think that lots of clients will leave Express Vu if it does happen that way. If you look at facts taught everything that happen in the past points out that Bell will not it...the same happens to Legacy clients. If they have the older programming packages and the HD value pack Legacy they won't receive the new HD channels comming out. The only way for them to get then is going on Genesis packages

Hope that this clarifies my position...

Bell can't afford NOT to go with MPeg4. They simply must move to MPeg4 to free up satellite cpaacity to deliver more HD. The new units rumoured for deployment (the subject of this thread) are, indeed, MPeg4 capable. And, all current HD models in market from Bell are NOT MPeg4 capable.

Dish offers a swap out that's not free but it is attractive; you can check out the current offers online: about $200 for a new DVR. Bell is likely to find some middle ground: launching some new HD services in MPeg4 only and offering an upgrade path which, while not free, is acceptable to many customers.

Bell won't shift current HD channels to MPeg4 until it can find an attractive offer to keep existing customers content. Moving the least watched channels to MPeg4, or perhaps the premium sports channels like NFL Sunday Ticket where users might be more likely to spring for the changes.

Is it true the units will be in stores in July? I gathered from earlier remarks here that the April rumour was pre-mature.

Mid year (which would mean June) is what we have in Info Zone. Not information that this receiver will be MPEG4 and TECH3 answer let me think that that receiver woudn't be MPEG4

TECH3 agents are the ones who are responsible for any equipement under warranty or refurbish equipement so if there was a swap planned they will definetly be aware of it. If there was plan for MPEG4 they will also be aware of it, since they would have to work on the network and get everything ready for the MPEG4 technologyPerhaps and perhaps not, at least according to my Tech 3 experience over the phone. On one occasion, when I asked about the maxtor verses western digital drives in the current 9200 units, the tech 3 agent had no idea what I was talking about and indicated that no one in 'their' department would either. One small example, but I'm not sure Tech 3 are really in the know that much. It sounds like they're very specific with what they do; go outside the lines and they're in the dark?

Claiming that hte new receivers won't be mpeg4 or at least mpeg4 upgradeable would seem to be absurd at this point. What would BEV stand to gain by issuing new receivers at all if not? It's pretty much a given that they will have to go mpeg4 in order to maintain their lead as top CDN HD provider. They have to begin to make more efficient use of the bandwidth they have, and will have if they want to survive AND thrive.

I don't think it matters if a tech3 or a tech15 knows or doesn't know about the future of Bell's move to mpeg4. One thing is for sure, if Bell doesn't move to mpeg4, Bell will have no future.

I don't think it matters if a tech3 or a tech15 knows or doesn't know about the future of Bell's move to mpeg4. One thing is for sure, if Bell doesn't move to mpeg4, Bell will have no future.
Do you not think that Bell would keep it to themselves about the date that they will eventually go to mpeg4. Can you imagine the panic and sales that would be disruppted if they announced it 6 months prior. No, it will be fast and furious. How can there be any other way?? I bought a 9200 lately just to see what they have up their sleeve, yeah right, I have money to throw away. Just want to know how long they will sell ''working recvr'' before they tell their customers '' sorry bud, lights out, tough luck'' Ever hear of *choice??

This is probably why when you call them, it's like talking mumbo jumbo to them. How come everybody here knows what mpeg4 is and they pretend they don't?? One of them started to talk about resolution: 1080i, 1080p??? What has that got to do with mpeg4??

Do you not think that Bell would keep it to themselves about the date that they will eventually go to mpeg4. Can you imagine the panic and sales that would be disruppted if they announced it 6 months prior. No, it will be fast and furious. How can there be any other way?? I bought a 9200 lately just to see what they have up their sleeve, yeah right, I have money to throw away. Just want to know how long they will sell ''working recvr'' before they tell their customers '' sorry bud, lights out, tough luck'' Ever hear of *choice??

This is probably why when you call them, it's like talking mumbo jumbo to them. How come everybody here knows what mpeg4 is and they pretend they don't?? One of them started to talk about resolution: 1080i, 1080p??? What has that got to do with mpeg4??

I completely agree... But this thread is to speculate what Bell is going to do. People are making their opinions known whether it gets to Bell or not, it probably won't matter. Bell has only really two options to expand their offering. Add another Satellite or flip over to Mpeg4. The first option I think would probably cost them leaps and bounds more than the second. But how will they implement the second?

We have heard that certain people have been accused of being secret Bell employees and others state they are Bell employees. We don't know if they are or not, but when they come up with information which is either a very creative lie or real information, it is up to us how we react to it.

All we really can do is take what we hear with a grain of salt, and wait to see what Bell will actually do.

Bell won't do anything idiotic in the transition to MPeg4. It might be a little bumpy for some customers but Bell has far too much to lose by doing something silly. MPeg4 is an evolutionary step to be phased in. The two units rumoured to be coming out ARE MPeg4 capable (ViP 622 and 211). It won't make any difference to early purchasers/renters since there probably won't be anything in MPeg4 on the satellite until Bell can transition enough of the installed base to make it worthwhile.

On balance, this is a good, smart move by Bell, not something to fear. It's not likely, however, till at least 2008 before the benefits start to appear for significant numbers of customers.

SensualPoet who are you to be able to confirm that those 2 units are in fact MPEG4? The compagny that makes them? I've been telling you people over and over that there is no specifications on what that model wil be different than the actual one. If us at BEV can not get the information then how could YOU pretend or affirm what they will be?


Belive me if they were to do something so technologically good, that would be beificial for the client or technologically advanced they be more than happy to tell us about it. Just think of when they knew that 9200 will be out. Before the official annoncement that they will be out and the official 1st day of sale how long there was?

The thread is about speculation. We know what you think and we know what you think Bell thinks. This is not about that at all. I quite enjoy hearing people's thoughts without having every other post saying that nothing is decided or official. We know that.

SensualPoet who are you to be able to confirm that those 2 units are in fact MPEG4? The compagny that makes them? I've been telling you people over and over that there is no specifications on what that model wil be different than the actual one. If us at BEV can not get the information then how could YOU pretend or affirm what they will be?

Look, AEV, some of us don't manage to believe you know all at Bell. Perhaps you could remember that there's probably stuff you and those you speak to DON'T know? There's no reason to tell you - until they're ready.

The two units rumoured to be coming out ARE MPeg4 capable (ViP 622 and 211).


SensualPoet who are you to be able to confirm that those 2 units are in fact MPEG4?


We all know that Bell just simply re-brands Echostar Technologies products, so it's a pretty simple matter to look across the border for a peek at potential products.

The specs are published HERE (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=49000) amongst many places.

Unlike the other guys that have for better or worse chosen to actually participate in product development, Bell has the ability to change a IPG logo and phone number.
I mean how simple has it been to JTAG a Bell 4700 into a Dish 4900 with superior IPG?

If you look at all the forums, it's pretty common knowledge that agents are often the least informed and the best information comes either directly from insiders close to the projects, as I have been for others and their friends of people high up in the industry that are in the know.

Wouldn't the guy in shipping/receiving know more about the new product as it hit's his doorstep for storage than the agent that performs better if he knows only what he needs to know to serve the customer?

I've seen it happen first hand in similar organizations, when even management doesn't know things that are happening so close to a program and call centres and marketing are the last to know what and when things will happen as it's all driven by things out of their control anyways.

If you really wanted to know what going on, it's pretty easy to observe tech trends and what is happening in the industry, simply go to the net and LOOK.

Talk to those that might be affected, like when I recently dealt with ExpressVu commercial group on a small headend that also had an HDTV component and speculation about needing bigger dishes since power may be reduced.
Having dropped a load of $$$ of H/E gear, I couldn't get an acknowledgement about any MPEG4 transitions, yet something is in the air.

Seems each group is feed a slighty different breadcrum and being too close to the situation does not permits you to view the larger picture that those at a distance can clearly see based on activities and past behaviors.

The new recievers are indeed MPEG4, but why did Dish start to move on 8PSK rollouts?

How do you know the new products rolling in, since that is what is available to choose from won't be just using the 8PSK capabilities?

You need better link margins? Has the testing been done?
Will bigger dishes be needed?
What about folks on the We(s)t coast?

If HD is going MPEG4, what about SD going 8PSK?

When workforbell proclaimed he saw the P.O.s for new receivers, was their one for all the backend equipment needed to make it work?

Is their a flurrly of activity at the uplinks and broadcast centres?
Have major commercial account been notified?
After all, a single change there affects THOUSANDS of viewers.

There a lot more to it unless your able to be engaged in residential and commercial activities that span several providers over a long period of time.

Any new receiver will have mpeg-4 capabilities, whether they announce that as a feature or ignore it completely is another thing.

With their new slot at 72.5 (DTV 1R on it's way, hopefully soon (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-269336A1.pdf)) and room for 64 HD channels possible for that slot there is no rush to switch to mpeg 4 for HD. But Bell needs to phase out the current non mpeg 4 HD receivers and replace them with compatible ones. Then 3-4 years from now when many older HD receiver die naturally or consumers choose to switch to the newer models, the upgrade or swap to mpeg 4 would be on a smaller scale and definatly cost less.

Mind you they could make 72.5 a mpeg4 only slot, requiring a new receiver/dish/switches if you want access to programming there.

I'm beginning to understand better when people raise concerns about understanding the Bell agents they speak with.
LOL - you took the words right out of my mouth! Been biting my tongue ever since he joined the Forums!!!

SweetMarie I forgot a few letters there...you should read WASN'T, not WAS...tech 3 confirmed that new receivers will be out shortly, and the agent strated laughing when I asked him about a possible swap asking me if I knew just how much it would cost to move to MPEG4 and have all those current receiver replaced. He then told me it would certainly be too expensive and told me that this is not something they discussed for the near future...
I only went on that thread to give you an official version versus speculation that were posted on that thread

If you are providing an "official" version, why are you not posting as a real person's name with the approval from Bell?

By the way, when you are looking at the cost of replacing all existing HD IRDs and saying it is way too expensive have you considered the savings Bell will realize freeing up the transponders on the existing satellites? The difference between MPEG2 and MPEG4 allows the freeing up of transponder space and the value to that is how many dollars?

You must consider the entire picture not just a small portion.

Ok, lets assume the new receiver isn't mpeg 4 compatible, which in itself would be odd because StarChoice already has mpeg 4 compatible receivers on the market.

Bell has a big marketing campaign and over the next 1-2 years get's a couple hundred thousand of these new mpeg 2 receivers in homes (new customers, trade up's, trade in's from renters, etc).
So now Bell has a few hundred thousand HD subsrcibers, and no doubt in a couple of years there are "X" new HD channels added to the HD lineup.

Then what?

It seems to me that even accounting for new technology, new satellites, old satellites decommissioned, etc that at some point Bell has to go to mpeg 4, as a Satellite provider the writing is on the wall.

So do you make that move with a couple hundred thousand subscribers or do you make it with perhaps 2-3 times that many subscribers?
The arguments in play now for changing to mpeg 4 will still be in play at any point in the future with the exception that it will effect that many more people.
So a swap/trade up program becomes that much more expensive, lack of a swap/trade up program risks alienating that many more customers.

For Bell it seems to be a "pay me now or pay me later" type of thing, with the prospect of potential customer alienation growing if it's left for several years.
Who know, maybe they have some grand way to keep it all mpeg 2, but from what I read on these forums that really dosn't sound feasible.