I have an installer booked to come and do my installation on Monday, I asked him of his '530 - he insists his has always been stable. :o :eek:

does this give him any credibility?

The next question should have been "Why haven't you taken it out of the box yet"?

There is a story my father (who worked for a railway 70 years ago) tells of an official inquest into a nasty train crash. Apparently one moonless night due to a mechanical problem a freight train got stuck at the points some time before a passenger express was due at the same junction. It was the duty of the station master to warn the approaching train of the danger and he had a red signal kerosene fuelled lantern provided for that purpose. He had adequate time to get in a position that would have been able to warn the approaching train. As a result it was expected the inquiry would lay the blame on the station master.

When questioned by the judge the station master testified that he ran down the line towards the oncoming locomotive waving a red lantern above his head to warn of the danger but the train did not stop. The Judge found he was not responsible for the accident and returned an open verdict of accident.

My father, who knew the station master was speaking to him after the inquiry. The station master replied that he wasn't too worried because he was able to answer all the questions truthfully, but he got a bit worried that the Judge may ask him if he had remembered to light the lantern before running down the line.....

Gee Guys,

I don't want to sound like I'm defending Motorola, but come on! Without access to the actual source code and some debugging tools you're just guessing what might be wrong. Even with the source code, you would be hard pressed to find the flaws. Looking at the souce code of a complex system is like exploring a huge cave with a penlight. Maybe the original authors who understood the overall design have left Moto, and the new team is left holding the turkey.


Hi Techluvr,
Yes we are guessing, but it is educated guessing. I know just how complicated embedded signal processing sw can be as I've worked on several generations of systems over the last 20 years (starting in assembler on x86 machines). In the early days all we had to debug these systems was a logic analyser and some means to trigger a very limited execution trace. Tools have gotten much fancier these days. The trick is getting an understanding of what the system is doing when a bug occurs and thinking what threads are likely to be executing when the problem occurs.
There is really only one tool that is important to debugging this type of system and that is between your shoulders. Since I've been working in sw one trend in industry has been to use requirements, design and code walkthroughs (we use a process developed by Michael Fagan (see http://www.mfagan.com/)). Its goal is to detect defects as early on in the process as possible. And I can say it works. The problem with any complex system is that as the author you tend not to see problems with it, even though you should know it the best. I've often had conversations with designers where the explain a particular problem with the system and been able to tell them where their mistake is without having seen the sw. Or worse, been in the field for integration testing at the customers site and had to open the sw myself (that I didn't write) to get things working. I like to see the sw just to get an idea of how bad things really are with this system, for obvious reasons, that's never going to happen. I just hope *C start putting some pressure on Moto to get this thing fixed. Afterall it looks real bad when your flagship system is a turkey. It shouldn't matter how many units the sell. Anyway to close off this topic, based on the number of strange problems I see posted in this forum we are a several releases away from a stable system (that is if they don't add any new features, those will introduce new bugs).

The best we can do as users, is to use this forum to help the developers find those problems quickly. Perhaps we should start logging our own problem reports with enough detail to help them find the issues. I'll see if I can create a form in notepad we can fill in.

Cheers

I'll see if I can create a form in notepad we can fill in.

Cheers

I like this idea, perhaps some positive and constructive feedback would help...Im not usre if ARR still has the ears of those who listen but....

I like this idea, perhaps some positive and constructive feedback would help...Im not usre if ARR still has the ears of those who listen but....
Good idea, but not sure if how well it will work.
Unfortunatly my lines of communications are drying up quite quickly.

Here's a plan that just might work:
Somebody host a BUGZILLA server with public access and let everyone post their bugs their.
That's the system they use internally to track stuff.
Perhaps with a publicly facing bug list, the exposure (aka shame) might compel better results.

It would ONLY work if properly managed, just like their developers do.
Proper and detailed reporting with version tracking and strict adherence to the rules that define priority and severity, regardless of how much it may irritate you and Text strings falling off a graphic is NOT a priority 1 gating bug.

If somebody is SERIOUS about this, they can PM me.
In the meantime, I need to go find a new job.

Somebody host a BUGZILLA server with public access and let everyone post their bugs their.
That's the system they use internally to track stuff.
Perhaps with a publicly facing bug list, the exposure (aka shame) might compel better results.

Unfortunately the public listing of the bug list is probably the last thing they want...

However, it's obvious that many who post here are prepared to assist if such a system was set up. It may be informal but the wide range of users with a wide range of use patterns and background knowledge could only help pin down the issues.

Despite my previous negativity, I have to report that version CC does seem to be more stable than previous versions for my general use. There are still the issues that no version has tackled with sound and video outputs, but certainly the serious crashes seem to be reduced.

There is still the odd, and unexplained change in the tuned live channel when stop is pressed when watching a recorded show and a few other similar things but generally they are more of a annoyance than a serious bug.

It's not always reproducable, but when I am recording a HD program on one channel and leave the "live" channel on a regular channel (usually BBC news - 501) to watch another recorded show, pressing "stop" stops the recorded program I was watching, but switches the "live" channel to the channel of the previously recorded show I just "stopped". Curious? At least the program still being recorded seems to be OK.

Unfortunately the public listing of the bug list is probably the last thing they want...
... It may be informal but the wide range of users with a wide range of use patterns and background knowledge could only help pin down the issues.

I tend to agree. I think they are aware of the bugs we report here, I know I made it my point to ensure if I could duplicate the bug reported here, it was made official in their database.
I also know that key people at Moto have been given the link to the threads here to observe from the sidelines the results after a code download.

I also know that the handfull of public beta testers remain available to them should they so desire to take advantage of the great opportunity.

I also know that some shortcomings in the existing testing have been addressed with a new local program to address the holes and supplement testing. The person has an excellent QA background and once things are set up, I fully expect things to improve dramatically in 2007.
We shared a common previous employer background that DID know about development and had ISO 9001 status.

I think the best solution is to report the problems to *C were they can be recorded on masse and tracked and then help our fellow users here with informaton that has worked for us in the past.

It's their business to run and they will either succeed or not.
I think the program turned out to be a bit more than expected by all parties and as the pains of product development diminish, they have and are improving.

That said, we must not let up on the pressure to advise them of what we expect so they can keep on track and not waver.

I think the best solution is to report the problems to *C were they can be recorded .

Sorry but I really haven't the patience to ring *C, wait for an indeterminate period and then start telling the life story of my 530 experiences to a different person every time something goes wrong several times a night.

That's an hour of my time every time and there is no feedback or even a flicker of recognition that a problem exists or that anyone really cares...

End of rant!

No worries about calling then, they already have such a long outstanding list that YOUR problems won't get on their radar screen for 6 months or better.
CHances are that over 95% of the probelms reported here are already known.
Some linger on as their priority in the queue hasn't risen high enough yet.

If you reflect back on the various release, the couple of very major bugs have each been addressed to some extent and the mor trivial, while possibly annoying ones persist until all the major dragons have been slayed.

Development time can also be balanced with some needed features from time to time.

I just got my replacement 530 with A8. it took CC the first night and almost after the very first tune tonight, I had a black screen. Green SAT lock though. I knew about the trick to go into Options 6-4 and then exit back again forces a re-launch of the IPG and consequently a re-tune as well, since Options 6-4 and below is the Moto SETUP applications and the IPG gets suspended at that point.
Thats' the beauty of a MIDDLEWARE based environment. (Not!)

Are there any new starchoice PVRs on the horizon?

I read somewhere that Star Choice would be coming out with a new PVR in the New Year. I had also read or heard that the 315 (the model I have now) would be replaced shortly with a 317. If a 317 should come out then the report I read about the PVR may very well be true. I have some reservations about the PVR report because: (a) they took forever and a day to come out with the 530); (b) I don't know why they would stick with Motorola PVRs given the troubles with the 530; and (c) if they do come out with a new and improved PVR, how is Star Choice going to pacify the current unhappy 530 customers?

While there is always a small margin for error, I can say with some certainty that you are correct about the 317 replacing the 315, as I've had one running with the new guide.
The same holds true for the 205 and it's 207 replacement.

As final testing completes, I would expect to see them by November sometime if not sooner.

The revised IPG is also the foundation for the next code for 505 and 530.

As for a new DVR, about the only change expected is a different brand of flash memory chip. The unit remains essentially unchanged and will continue to undergo constant software feature additions and bug fixes.

This strategy is better for consumers as it's preserves and enhances their investment in the product, unlike some others that use equipment from South of the border that is now in it's 4th generation and obsoletes most of the previous bug ridden equipment.

So I say, If you can't get this unit working, why would you bother to try it on another unit and effectivly start from scratch?

Examine the substantially improved state of the CC code today against the original launch code of a year and a half ago.

Well, mine just died after a couple of power outages tonight. A new unit is on the way, hopefully with CC. After the power came back on, it wouldn't reboot. It would only cycle the LEDs. After 30 minutes of front panel and power cord resets, I finally got it to come on and it immediately froze on the channel it rebooted on. Another 30 minutes of resets got it to reboot and change the channel once. At least my wife got to see Survivor! Then it froze on CBS. A slow and painful death I guess.:(

I suspect yours, like mine will come with A8.
I got CC the first night after re-activation.

So far, pretty good.

Well I found a whole new set of bugs and problems with my 530 today.

We had a foot or so of heavy wet snow last night that covered my disk and cut the signal for quite long periods. OK *C can't control the weather, so I decided to watch a couple of recorded shows...

Fat chance. If the 530 can't lock on to a signal, operating it becomes impossible even to watch recorded shows when you don't want to watch or record anything live!

Apparently that isn't considered an issue but you can't tell me nobody else has seen the problem or that they can't cover that situation with a simple option. Apparently once your live signal dies, even though that's the ideal time to watch a recorded show, it is no longer available. If you do just manage to get a playback of a recorded show started, the overhead of trying to tune a non-existent signal makes it unwatchable.

I thought you just had to turn live recording off to allow playback with no signal? That's how it used to work as I seem to remember.

Hmmmm I have a few questions or perhaps only one LARGE question considering I am in the market for a DSR530.

For a unit that costs so much why all the problems? $699 plus tax is no small change.

Or perhaps alot of these problems I am reading bout are overinflated and not subject too all DSR530s.

I guess I will do some more research but I remember using Bell's 5900 I believe PVR and I loved it.

:)

Well I found a whole new set of bugs and problems with my 530 today.

We had a foot or so of heavy wet snow last night that covered my disk and cut the signal for quite long periods. OK *C can't control the weather, so I decided to watch a couple of recorded shows...

Fat chance. If the 530 can't lock on to a signal, operating it becomes impossible even to watch recorded shows when you don't want to watch or record anything live!

Apparently that isn't considered an issue but you can't tell me nobody else has seen the problem or that they can't cover that situation with a simple option. Apparently once your live signal dies, even though that's the ideal time to watch a recorded show, it is no longer available. If you do just manage to get a playback of a recorded show started, the overhead of trying to tune a non-existent signal makes it unwatchable.

I know exactly what you mean. When Shaw Cable came to install my internet they cut off my *C feed. The guy tried to hook it up again and couldn't. I had to wait a couple of days for a *C tech to come out but, like you I thought, "No big deal . . . I've got tons on the DVR". Well it was no go. It kept giving me the same message you were getting. A CSR tried to help but to no avail. We tried every suggestion in the book. I only had the A8 version at the time. I also used to have a BEV PVR and it was never a problem - if the weather was bad I just watched a recorded program. I'm not sure why *C can't get it right.

I just bought the 530 so quick question because I can't find it in the manaul:

Two RG6 cables run from the dish to the Satellite 1 and Satellite 2 on the back of the receiver correct?

Thanks

I just bought the 530 so quick question because I can't find it in the manaul:

Two RG6 cables run from the dish to the Satellite 1 and Satellite 2 on the back of the receiver correct?

Thanks

That is correct. This allows you to record one program while viewing another. Some here might dispute that claim :^)

[QUOTE=Techluvr;425369 Some here might dispute that claim :^)[/QUOTE]


:o :o hmmmmmms