This thread has been split from the HD Hockey thread since it has little to do with HD Hockey.
So stop dumping on the CBC. Remember that the CBC was the first Canadian network to show hockey in HD as they produced several games in HD before the even had any HD channels.

It's clear that without pressure, CBC will do a sub-par job of HD. You see it as 'dumping' on them, I see it as being realistic and doing some prodding to remind CBC of the written commitments and promises they made to the CRTC and have subsequently neglected.

If there were signs of steady forward progress that would be one thing. But CBC-HD has shown little improvement in the last 12-24 months.

Their Olympics were a terrible disappointment, and they suffered the indignity of being given a major broadcasting lesson by NBC. They still have zero scheduled HD hours per week. Their HD web pages and newsletter haven't been updated in a year and a half. Overall, there is little reason for optimism and little reason to cut them another couple years of slack.

Some people (and organizations) are not independently driven to meet their obligations, and CBC is clearly one such organization. In such circumstances, pressure, influence and motivation are often ways to spur activity that leads to progress. At this point, I'm happy to make it known the areas where CBC-HD can make improvements.

I will actually be quite happy if CBC-HD outperforms my expectations and covers both sites properly in HD... and even more so if they start to make noticeable and steady improvements across their whole channel.

The CBC's performance in the Canadian-produced-HD ring is on par with all the other Canadian broadcasters. This is not just a CBC problem.

Canadian broadcasters have been set up by the government so that they don't have to produce Canadian HD content and yet can still make money by showing US HD content.....a sweet deal for them and a crappy deal for us...

If there were signs of steady forward progress that would be one thing. But CBC-HD has shown little improvement in the last 12-24 months.

Now wait a second....CBC-HD hasn't even existed for 12-24 months. It only started broadcasting in March 2005.

Their HD web pages and newsletter haven't been updated in a year and a half.

http://www.cbc.ca/hdtv has information regarding this year's playoffs, hence I think you're somewhat overstating the issue. Sure, they haven't produced another newsletter since Winter 2005; who cares? It's not like they have anything all that new to report on.

It seems you're holding the CBC to a higher standard than other networks. What weekly scheduled HD does CTV, Global, etc. have that isn't a simsub from a US network?

Now that you mention it, I dont remember a CTV or Global HD broadcast that wasn't sim subbed. (I have only had my set for 6 mos tho)

The CBC's performance in the Canadian-produced-HD ring is on par with all the other Canadian broadcasters.


On par? Not even close:

Canadian HD channel HD hours per week
=================================
Discovery-HD 168
Movie Central 168
CTV-HD ~28
Global-HD ~28
CBC-HD ~0



Canadian broadcasters have been set up by the government so that they don't have to produce Canadian HD content and yet can still make money by showing US HD content.....
No argument with that. But the topic is CBC and their zero hours of HD content on their HD channel. At least CTV and Global have the decency to provide HD where it's available, CBC-HD goes the other way and would rather show us low def programs and hockey even when HD versions are readily available.

Now wait a second....CBC-HD hasn't even existed for 12-24 months. It only started broadcasting in March 2005.

Not sure what calendar you're using, but that is 16 months, squarely in the 12-24 range. And going back on this topic, CBC-HD was tardy to launch. One could say they spent a good 6-12 months giving us no-def, before blazing on to the scene in glorious low-def.

Sure, they haven't produced another newsletter since Winter 2005; who cares?
Taxpayers? Viewers? People who miss the old CBC where they tried to lead and do good things instead of run an excuse factory? Honest people who would never perjure themselves or sign a totally false application of any sort? It grinds my gears that CBC can just flat out lie to the CRTC and there's no consequences.

It's not like they have anything all that new to report on.
Now you're coming around to the point. They don't have anything new to report since they went on air. And that's the problem.

What weekly scheduled HD does CTV, Global, etc. have that isn't a simsub from a US network?[/QUOTE] Actually each of them have US content that isn't simsubbed, but show at alternative times. Although it's only a few hours, mathematically speaking it is still infinitely more than CBC. Each of those channels also has the occasional and typically lame special event or production in HD, same as CBC.

On par? Not even close:

Canadian HD channel HD hours per week
=================================
Discovery-HD 168
Movie Central 168
CTV-HD ~28
Global-HD ~28
CBC-HD ~0

I said Canadian-produced. You have included US programming in your stats. Remove that and add some time for CBC HD because there is some original programming and you have closer numbers !!!

Not sure what calendar you're using, but that is 16 months, squarely in the 12-24 range. And going back on this topic, CBC-HD was tardy to launch. One could say they spent a good 6-12 months giving us no-def, before blazing on to the scene in glorious low-def.

My "not on-air for 12-24 months" was meant to address your "little improvement in 12-24 months" comment. That implies they've actually been on-air for at least 12-24 months.

Taxpayers? Viewers? People who miss the old CBC where they tried to lead and do good things instead of run an excuse factory? Honest people who would never perjure themselves or sign a totally false application of any sort? It grinds my gears that CBC can just flat out lie to the CRTC and there's no consequences.

I fail to see where they've lied? And I don't know if perhaps I'm too young to know about this...but I don't recall "the old CBC where they tried to lead"...

What weekly scheduled HD does CTV, Global, etc. have that isn't a simsub from a US network? Actually each of them have US content that isn't simsubbed, but show at alternative times.

Same difference, in my opinion. What original (or at least unavailable on any other network) HD content do these networks show on a weekly basis? I 'm thinking they're looking no better than the numbers you are giving the CBC.

Although it's only a few hours, mathematically speaking it is still infinitely more than CBC. Each of those channels also has the occasional and typically lame special event or production in HD, same as CBC.

Well...the CBC has had many hours in HD of CBC-produced hockey. During the regular season, it was indeed a weekly scheduled show that produced about 3 hours of genuinely self-produced content.

As for your comment earlier about the CBC not broadcasting the HD source when the HD source was available, I can only think you're referring to the CBC's decision to produce some hockey games iin SD (or widescreen SD) when other networks were doing the show in HD. The difference here is that they were not technically showing the same content as the other channels. They were producing their own show--there was no option to pick up someone else's feed. This does not compare with CTV showing CSI in HD.

Actually each of them have US content that isn't simsubbed, but show at alternative times.

In the thread Global not on in HD when it should be! (http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=373904&highlight=Prison+Break#post373904) it is speculated that Global doesn't have the capability of broadcasting recorded HD content but can only simsub HD. If this is true then Global wouldn't be able to broadcast any Canadian shows in HD. Can you give an example that proves this to be incorrect?

BTW. What does this have to do with Playoff Hockey?

In the thread Global not on in HD when it should be! (http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=373904&highlight=Prison+Break#post373904) it is speculated that Global doesn't have the capability of broadcasting recorded HD content but can only simsub HD.

To answer this part of your question, the Global submission to the CRTC for their HD licence states that they would NOT be producing any Canadaian HD content. This was okay with the CRTC...

If this is true then Global wouldn't be able to broadcast any Canadian shows in HD. Can you give an example that proves this to be incorrect?

Yes. Tragically Hip concert. There are probably other examples, but still, all it takes is 1 to break the theory.

Same difference, in my opinion. What original (or at least unavailable on any other network) HD content do these networks show on a weekly basis?


The point is, when you turn on any other HD channel, there's a good chance you will see something in HD. When you turn on CBC-HD, it's guaranteed to be in low def. Look at their schedule if you don't believe it from me.

Even when HD sources exists, CBC discards them and opts to show low def instead. This is true in sports like hockey & olympics.

As Movie Central has proven, average grade older movies are also becoming readily available and affordable in HD, yet CBC always shows them in low def. CBC blithely shows Kill Bill and Finding Nemo in low def when everyone knows they are readily available in HD.

Syndicated programs like Simpsons is another example. Even the worst Fox affiliates are able to get it on in pillarboxed HD format, CBC is incapable of matching that.

I could be wrong but maybe some of their home grown series like 72 hours, This is Wonderland, and The Hotel are in HD. Anyone know?

I could be wrong but maybe some of their home grown series like 72 hours, This is Wonderland, and The Hotel are in HD. Anyone know?We've touched on this before, but please see post 3 of the following thread. No Canadian Broadcaster even comes close to having produced as much HD as CBC.

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42447

Granted, TSN and SportNet probably come close in total hours, but those sports programmes are not really "produced", they are simply a "broadcast" live event.

The point is, when you turn on any other HD channel, there's a good chance you will see something in HD.

Only if you turn it on between the hours of 7:00-10:00 PM.

When you turn on CBC-HD, it's guaranteed to be in low def.

Not true. I have it on good authority that they'll be doing HD broadcasts on June 5, 7, 10, and 12, and possibly also on June 14, 17, and 19. All broadcasts begin at 8 PM EDT and go at least 3 hours.

Look at their schedule if you don't believe it from me.

Their schedule isn't showing the NHL playoffs.

Even when HD sources exists, CBC discards them and opts to show low def instead. This is true in sports like hockey & olympics.

Sports don't count, unless you just wanted them to rebroadcast the NBC Olympic feed without any sort of Canadian commentators, interviews with/highlights/featurettes of Canadian athletes, etc. Similarly with hockey; the HD feed wasn't available, in the sense that then they would have been re-broadcasting someone else's feed, rather than producing their own broadcast of the games. As I said upthread, it's rather different for CTV to simulcast (or rebroadcast) CSI in HD--there is no production work required whatsoever for them to do so--all it requires is obtaining the rights and pushing a button.

As Movie Central has proven, average grade older movies are also becoming readily available and affordable in HD, yet CBC always shows them in low def.

I've seen movies on CBC HD in HD. "Always" is definitely not accurate.

CBC blithely shows Kill Bill and Finding Nemo in low def when everyone knows they are readily available in HD.

I've seen enough examples of other Canadian networks, and even American networks showing movies on their HD station in SD to not single out the CBC in this case.

Personally, I think you just have it in for the CBC and wouldn't be satisfied even if they were in HD 24/7--you'd still find something to complain about ("the PQ isn't near as good as other HD stations", "I can't stand the glare off of Peter Mansbridge's head--why do they show him in HD anyway?") ;)

No Canadian Broadcaster even comes close to having produced as much HD as CBC.Not to detract what CBC is doing - I think the transition is going very well! But OMNI (CFMT) should be applauded for doing as much HD as they do!

Nick

Only if you turn it on between the hours of 7:00-10:00 PM.

You are being very selective as you laughably try to defends CBC-HD's total dearth of HD!

Many Canadian channels are 24x7 HD, the rest have prime time & weekend coverage. Fact: CBC-HD has the lowest HD content of any HD channel in the world!

Not true. I have it on good authority that they'll be doing HD broadcasts on June 5, 7, 10, and 12, and possibly also on June 14, 17, and 19. All broadcasts begin at 8 PM EDT and go at least 3 hours.

It will be curious to see what CBC's version of HD will be for these games. They misled us about the HD Olympics, so who knows what the Stanley cup finals will be. Hopefully it will be as promised, but if someone tricked you many times in the past, how much would *you* trust them?

Question: After June 12th, what HD content can you guarantee will be on CBC-HD?


Sports don't count

How hypocritical. You trot out the final round of hockey as CBC's HD content, then in the next breath you say "Sports don't count"?!?


the HD feed wasn't available,



in the sense that then they would have been re-broadcasting someone else's feed,


First the HD feed was available, then it wasn't. You're a total politician with these flip-flops...



there is no production work required whatsoever for them to do so--all it requires is obtaining the rights and pushing a button.

What is preventing CBC-HD from the simplistic act of "obtaining the rights and pushing a button" then? If every other HD channel can do it, why can't they?



I've seen movies on CBC HD in HD.

Can you find any examples to back this up? To my knowledge they have NEVER shown major studio films in HD. Yes they show two 'made in Canada' throwaway pictures every year, but the nightly and weekend films are ALWAYS low def.


I've seen enough examples of other Canadian networks, and even American networks showing movies on their HD station in SD to not single out the CBC in this case.

The difference is those channel fail occasionally, CBC fails every time! There's a huge difference, and you should know that.



Personally, I think you just have it in for the CBC and wouldn't be satisfied even if they were in HD 24/7--

Like almost everything else you've said, this couldn't be more wrong. I'm a huge CBC supporter and always have been. But it's not supporting them to be blind to problems or to praise them for incompentence.

Such attitudes as yours are why the CBC is falling apart and getting worse. People like you are very complacent, have no standards or ideals, and just defend substandard performance blindly despite all evidence to the contrary.

People like you create an environment where a CBC-HD channel can exist with no actual HD content... because for you at least, results never matter, and anyone with higher expectations you can just brand as a 'complainer' because that's easier than facing the real issues or doing any real thought or work.

Granted, TSN and SportNet probably come close in total hours, but those sports programmes are not really "produced", they are simply a "broadcast" live event.

The 3 dozen people that work on producing a live sports event would probably beg to differ... What about awards shows like ECMA's? Would you say those are not produced either?

1. Many Canadian channels are 24x7 HD, the rest have prime time & weekend coverage.

2. Fact: CBC-HD has the lowest HD content of any HD channel in the world!1. Care to name me a Canadian HD channel that has 24/7 HD other than Discovery HD, which produces almost none of its own content.

2. What utter BS. All you need to do is scan the 30+ so-called HD channels to see that a lot of the Canadian ones air very little HD and almost none they produce. (CTV, Global, City, Score, OMNI, Sun) Please list the Canadian Content in HD that these channels produce. The list will be very short and all the channels added together have not produced as much HD as CBC has.

Granted, some of these channels have some WS programming, however, CBC has hours and hours of WS programming every week.

I'm guessing you either didn't read the post I linked to in post 453, or you didn't like the results.

Before you reply again with any more silly comments, please advise what other Canadian Channels are HD 24/7 and what programming they have exactly. So far your comments have been totally unsubstantiated.

Hey 57, would you change your number two response if we changed "produced by the network" to "Canadian content aired" by the network...

I think most networks contract out the production of their programming nowadays...:)

You are being very selective as you laughably try to defends CBC-HD's total dearth of HD!

This as you very selectively trimmed my own comments and in the process took out a lot of the context.

I won't even attempt to respond to how you twisted my words, other than to say that I am done discussing this with you. 57 has responded well enough to your first couple of points.