: Splitters, Attenuators, Filters, Diplexers, Other Signal Gear
2005-10-21, 06:05 PM
So, what if I perhaps disconnected all of the other lines coming towards the recievers and had only 1 DBS/OTA feed, even though it is an 5x8 port? Would that perhaps help to relieve the issue?
I dont see how one would affect the other though, different frequencies...
2005-10-21, 08:57 PM
Nothing in the problem you've described is about frequencies.
The way you've got things connnected, all of the signals in the VHF/UHF bands are coming down the exact same pipeline as the Satellite signals, and each of the splits in the pipeline has a signal strength penalty. How can all those signals be coming down the same pipeline at once? Simple, they're at different frequencies so they don't collide or affect eachother. Period. Since you're losing signal on all of them, this clearly shows that the number of outputs/splits is draining too much signal strength for your layout. Since the solution is simply to boost the signal, FORGET about frequencies in your particular situation.
You asked about disconnecting other items from that pipeline, and that is an excellent idea for getting back signal, but it means all those other lines become useless. If that's okay with you, go to a store and buy enough CATV Terminators to cap off the unused connections unless the splitter/switch documentation says you don't need them. If you're not sure, cap them anyways.
Also, you asked if NTSC has different frequencies than ATSC. The answer is no, they co-exist on the exact same frequency bands.
Again, nothing in the problem you've described is about frequencies. This is a simple signal strength problem, and a distribution amplifier will fix it. :)
2005-10-21, 09:01 PM
OK, well I went out and disconnected all of the DirecTV dishes, except the one I am trying to use the diplexer with, and even still with the diplexer I am losing signals and transponders...
Is it possible I need to use a Terk Diplexer for the Terk Mulitswitch? I just have a feeling that perhaps the range isnt proper...
2005-10-21, 09:07 PM
OK, well I went out and disconnected all of the DirecTV dishes, except the one I am trying to use the diplexer with, and even still with the diplexer I am losing signals and transponders...Actually its the connections downstream that you want to disconnect, not the various inputs. Try leaving all dish/antenna input stuff connected, but then disconnect all but one of the indoor downstream output lines right at where they come off the diplexer/switch/gizmo. On the one remaining receiver watch the signal strength meter and see if it rose.
The next thing to bear in mind is that you no longer need any diplexers anymore on any of your output lines because the Terk multiswitch is also a diplexer. All lines coming out of it will carry satellite and antenna. Therefore adding another diplexer below is not only redundant but it costs you valuable signal strength.
I'm going to go over the whole scenario now so that we've got it right:
Connect all dishes and antenna leads to the Terk multiswitch. Connect only one satellite receiver and one ATSC tuner as separate downleads. This means 6 of the 8 downleads will be disconnected at this point. Observe the signal strength on both the sat and ATSC meters. One by one reconnect downleads, noting the signal strength each time. If after adding a few the meters are noticeably dropping, you should also check to see if any previously received channels are dropping off. If that starts to happen, there is no point in doing any further tests because you have a classic signal strength problem and need to replace the Terk with a distribution amplifier that can keep the signal up nice and strong to all connections.
Let us know how it goes. :)
2005-10-21, 09:14 PM
stampeder I know some his connections going to the terk was very bad.
Some were corroded and some as soon as you gave it a slight tug the connections came off.
I showed him a few cables that there was no ground wires after the connector fell off.
We recrimped some of his cables for him. I told him before we left he has to restrip and recrimp all the connections.
2005-10-21, 09:23 PM
AHA! Bad cabling connections are a signal killer - recrimp asap alebowgm!!! Thanks Yaamon
2005-10-21, 10:10 PM
what I determined is that it isn't the TERK 5x8 directly causing any interfernece. Because the CM Pre-amp is sitting in my room, I disconnected it from the HDTV setup in the basement and returned it upstairs to my 480i setup. I plugged the 'To TV' (antenna out) straight into the T-151 reciever and scrolled through the stations. PBS was still not coming in, and another issue which has arrose tonight is that CityTV isn't coming in and SunTV is becoming pixlated and not as reliable as I would like.
Hopefully, if yammmon has some time he can come over and get the crimps down properly on some of the rusting wire...
2005-10-21, 10:23 PM
alebowgm are you saying that you took the output from the cm power amp from and put it straight into the samsung and you are having problems.
If so unplug the cm wait and then plug it back in as it may to need to reset, like what happened when we were there.
If so what signal strength are you getting on those weak channels as you were getting 9 before.
Definately if this is what you did then you would need to raise the antenna higher so that the lower bows clear the chimmney.
Maybe we can do this one day when wink wink is not home as I don't think they would notice it, you think ? :D ;)
Does not make sense that you had good strong signals when I was there and now they are flaking out ?
2005-10-26, 08:54 AM
I could never get CBC to come in even though I had about 65% on my ExpressVU 9200 it would always pixelate and then not come in.
I added a cheap $5 splitter to my line so i could also hook it up to my TV as it has a built in ATSC tuner.
The funny part is now it comes in just fine on my ExpressVU 9200 as well as the TV with even higher signal strength.
I guess I must have been overloading the tuner or something and the splitter attenuated the signal just enough to make it work.
2005-10-26, 01:31 PM
I guess I must have been overloading the tuner or something and the splitter attenuated the signal just enough to make it work.Bingo! You got it. I didn't have any attenuators left one day so I put three splitters in cascade with terminator caps and it did the same thing - knocked about 6db off the signal and it was clean after that until I could get a 6db attenuator. :) My LG LST-4200a drops right down to zero on its signal strength meter if I mistakenly overdrive it. To me overdriving is like leaving all the burners on your stove lit up red hot all day. Something bad will happen...
2005-10-27, 12:57 PM
I currently am using a 3 way splitter one -3 db down to the family room that feed a Samsung 451 and then the loop out to the basement to another 451 and then loop out to my hd wonder in the study. All these signals are steady and strong.
Took one port of the -7db into the LG. The cable is 3 ' away from the power amp of the channel master in my bedroom.
Took the other -7db to the dish rec and noticed that on the dish receiover the signal percent went up on all channels vs a 2 way splitter by 7 to 8%.
Took another 2 way splitter terminated one end and hooked it to the dish rec some channels went up a few percent and some went down by 2-3 %.
Iam having problem on Pbs signal on dish rec as I can see the signal strength jumps around 68 to 88% and do get pixel drop out only on the Pbs channels.
If I insert another 4 way splitter instead of the 2nd 2 way splitter pbs signal drops to 78-80% and comes in steady but I end up losing Nbc, Sun, and Fox.
I left it with a 2nd two way splitter and use the LG for Pbs.
What I did notice before I closed the angle on the antenna's all the receivers would pull in Sun but the dish rec will go fluctuate 68% and then drop back to 49% no signal. If I jump off the channel and then back on maybe a few times it would lock in.
With the Sun now coming in at 78% it locks properly.
I wonder if there is any adjustment to set the threshold for the signal cut off. Anything below 50% on the dish receiver gets no signal.
2005-10-27, 01:46 PM
I wonder if there is any adjustment to set the threshold for the signal cut off. Anything below 50% on the dish receiver gets no signal.Radio Shack U.S.A. has a variable attenuator that you could use for your testing. When you find the right level, replace it with a regular attenuator: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062022&cp=&kw=attenuator&parentPage=search
I don't know of one that operates on satellite frequencies, but if anyone does please let us know.
2005-10-27, 05:19 PM
I wonder how much can the radio shack attenuate the signal and how would you know what value to insert it with a fixed attenuator.
Why would you need one for satellite frequencies ? They use 950to 2150mhz.
2005-10-27, 07:54 PM
I wonder how much can the radio shack attenuate the signal and how would you know what value to insert it with a fixed attenuator.Not sure how much, but when you get the right level you could remove the variable attenuator and measure it with an ohmeter to get the value needed for the fixed attenuator.Why would you need one for satellite frequencies ? They use 950to 2150mhz.You're probably right about not needing a separate one but I just assumed that the variable attenuator was rated only for the TV/CATV frequencies. Its worth a try and the frequency shouldn't make a difference if its just a simple L-pad attenuator inside.
2005-10-29, 05:22 PM
Today, Yammon and I went out to try to remedy the issues described in the thread and I would like to share what we did.
The main thing learned today was re-cap the heads of the RG6 so there are no issues, as the major issues discussed with the DBS signalwere remedied (so odd transponders are once again working).
However, it appears the issue with the OTA is more severe and has left Yammon and I scratching our heads. To simplify matters, after we raised the antenna, so that the two lower UHF bows were no longer blocked (which saw a bit in the boost of the signal) we ran the line directly from the CM 4228 (and through the CM UHF Booster) into the Samsung T-151 reciever. While the majority of stations were reciving stunning reception (CBC was 10 bars, Fox,NBC,CBS,UPN(CBS),ABC,CTV,SunTV,CBCF were 7/8 bars), we appeared to have issues with both WNED PBS Buffalo (43-1/2/3) and CityTV (53-1). While we would recieve 5-7 bars in reception on WNED (which is strange, as both WNED and WUTV are broadcasting from the same tower on Grand Island and Fox has a lower kW), with severe pixlization. In contrast, CityTV was jumpy with signal strength comming in at 8 bars however continously dropping out. We spent numerous hours trying to peak strictly WNED and CityTV but to no avail.
At this point, it was decided to ignore the situation with WNED and CityTV and move on towards the multiswitch issue. Basically, we are left back to where we started. With the multiswitch enabled, there was only a 1-2 bar drop on stations, with the lowest being 6 bars (SunTV, as we were no longer paying attention to CityTV/WNED). This was acceptable, and as I ran the line directly into the reciever signal quality (as stated above) was strong. However, immediatly upon adding the Diplexer to the setup, SunTV as well as WIVB (4-1/3) dropped out while some stations such as WUTV or CBLT were still at 9 bars. Even with only one line connected to the BMS 58 Multiswitch, we were still experiencing drop outs. Unfortuantly, we didn't have any F-Terminators and only caps, so I can not comment if that will make a difference (may try that if I have time tommorow).
At this junction, we tried a new theory which we thought would work well. We removed the Antenna from the BMS58 and inserted it to a Nextech (Radioshack/Source) 5-2400 GHZ Goldplated 2 way splitter. One output was left empty while the other was connected to the antenna input on a diplexer, with the satellite input connected from the BMS-58 to the diplexer (a technique I was previously using with this same multiswitch to combine Cable/Satellite feed in one room so only one wire would need to be ran) and then diplexed that backout with a satellite and antenna feed. This led to severe loss of signal strength on numerous stations, including only 7 bars on CBC and 4 bars on WGRZ. We had thought that by doing this there would be a significant amount of less dB lost in the line however it appeared there was more.
Unfortuantly, at this point we were both frustrated, stumped and tired, as well as it being the weekend so we had other commitments, so we called it a day. However, I know it has left us both pondering in what direction to go. I want to be able to distribute the DBS signal to up to 8 rooms (well 6 with 2 spares that are not being presently used but already have the line ran), and want to do the same with the OTA-HDTV. Right now, I can physically swap the RG6 from DBS Reciever to OTA Reciever and perfectly recieve both the signals (excluding CityTV and WNED).
The only idea that we could come up with was...
Attempt to find a Terk Diplexer which is made specifically for Terk's.
Attempt to find a Dipelxer with a lower signal loss level
Connect a new OTA reciever in place of the Samsung T-151 (I believe Yammon will bring either his T-451 or LG 4200 next time.
We could go stampeders route and try the home distributor, however that will requrire all the feeds being indoors and I need an outdoor solution.
Obviously, the simple thing I want to get done is remedy the WNED and City TV issue. Does anyone have any insight as to what we could perhaps do? The antenna is picking up both NBC, FOX SunTV (NBC is the most extreme Eastern Station and middle UHF Frequency, Sun TV is the extreme Western as well as the highest UHF Frequency, FOX is the lowest UHF Frequency). I find it interesting that even though SunTV and CFTO broadcast at higher power, they are at lower elevation and while CityTV is at lower power and higher elevation, I can not see it (except for the occasional blip where is whos 7-9 bars (and I was able to pull the station in without dropouts, with my indoor antenna sitting on the roof outside the window)
Once that situation is taken care of, I can move onto the my multiswitch issue, however if the worest case scenario is that I will be required to hardwire the reciever every time I switch between the two, I will live with it.
Any ideas or conversation is greatly appreciated (and if we can perhaps not close this thread, or join this with the closed thread, that would be swell).
2005-10-29, 05:42 PM
Just an update,
It appears as if my Grand Island issues have switched. What I mean is, I just spent the last 10 minutes watching WNED flawlessly and now WUTV was having severe pixilization with a steady signal strength (in fact, signal is higher on Fox than on WNED). Being that both are coming from the same tower, I am wondering if anyone has ever experienced this issue before or is perhaps having the same issue with WNED and WUTV? I have not changed anything in regards to my setup.
CityTV is still M.I.A.
2005-10-29, 08:33 PM
alebowgm I just came home and noticed that no signal on Fox ?
My City is working.
2005-10-30, 12:35 AM
The fox came back on about 30min later at full signal.
2005-10-30, 01:19 AM
You were not getting a signal on Fox?
I am going to go check soon and see what is happening right now. It was weird, it sorta appears that if I pull in WUTV, WNED is pixalated, and if I pull in WNED, WUTV is pixilated...
At least that was what was going on earlier...
2005-10-30, 09:42 AM
Fox was out for about 30mins not sure how long before it was out but there was 0 signal on the receivers.
But the signal is now back and stable.