SO-GLAD and all, please keep this thread tightly focused on OTA signal amplifiers. Let's keep reviews brief and technical, and make sure to clarify for everyone the conditions before-and-after using a certain OTA signal amp.

We have accumulated a great deal of data and expertise in this thread over the years thanks to our electronics gurus and valiant experimenters. We are a skeptical bunch, so convince us in technical terms or your posts will resemble ads from a certain company that makes monstrous cable claims. ;)

cheers :)

isn't the recommended minimum 1,000 microvolts or 0 dBm for HDTV? And at -1dBm isn't that signal at 'the painful edge' of pixilation and station drop-outs?

While that was the recommended signal level for snow-free analog reception, the digital receivers' (NTIA BECB, for example) specs call for a dynamic range of around -83 to -85 dBm to a -5 dBm signal level, a span of almost 80 dB.

In the real world, if you can get -35 or so dBmV at the antenna terminals as measured with a digital SLM, you'll have adequate signal power for a pre-amp before considering the deleterious effects of multi-path, other distortions, and your system noise figure.

To convert dBm (power) values to dBmV in a 75 ohm system, add 48.8 (IIRC) to the dBm value.

have to back up so-glad and disagree with Balm (you sure you're talking about the right amp?!?)

I'm using the AT-PAU18, replaced it with the Kitztech after reading all the great reviews here. I found the performance of the amps virtually identical - no change in any channel strength. had the Kitztech up for a month before putting the weatherproof AT-PAU18 back up.

I would continue to reccommend AT-PAU18 - good price, good performance, got mine at Sayal (not bashing Kitz, it's good too)

just proves that it was good enough for your situation, but in a more difficult situation the Kitztech probably will pull in front

would sure like to here about how other Antra amps faired here in Montreal...;)

The thing about DTV is it either works reliably, or it doesn't. Black and white, there are no shades of gray. If one amp makes all your channels work reliably, another one won't make them any better. But if one amp doesn't make them all reliable, a better one might fix things. If you want to try a cheap amp to see if it is good enough, by all means do so, but you had better hope the store has a good return policy in case it isn't good enough for you. For this reason, many people on this forum recommend getting a good quality amp to maximize your chances of reliable reception in all weather.

Regarding the recent posts about the Antra AT-PAU18:

Without concrete, objective data posted here from A-B comparisons let's avoid assuming that it is a better choice than other brands.

If the Antra AT-PAU18 is shown in A-B tests conducted by different site members under different circumstances to be demonstrably better than the CM or Winegard amps I will be the first to amend my recommendations.

Until then, anyone considering which amp to buy must keep in mind that choosing the right one is all a matter of trying to match the expected reception with the most reasonably priced gear for the job. Having seen the test results for the RC and Kitztech amps I consider them part of the essential tool kit for deepest fringe OTA gear, but for most shorter ranges I'm quite content with recommending the industry standard CM777x and Winegard AP series due to their roughly equivalent performance with much lower price points.

yes I have been using this amp for testing antenna builds. I'ts not a very good amp. I can honestly say you're better off standing on one foot holding a bent nail for an antenna than you are using this amp. chevyquick Alabama USA

FYI,

I did A-B test with Antra, Kitztech, and no amp.

The results were Antra = no amp, and worse on one channel.

Kitztech was 0-5% better than no amp on most channels, 5-10% better on one channel, and pulled in one additional channel.

Thats why I said what I did in my previous posts, I cant be more factual than that :rolleyes:

We sure have some major differences of opinion about that amp!

I don't have any problem with people letting us know whether the Antra AT-PAU18 amp worked satisfactorily for them or not - just that it would be great to sink our teeth into some good objective data. :)

Just to clarify, what I'm asking for are some signal comparison numbers if you've got them.

Hey all,

Just wanted to report my findings with a few of AntennaCraft's amps.

Tested for about 2 months now with my newest setup, AntennaCraft HBU-33 antenna hooked up with 2 different amps: First the AntennaCraft 10G201 - Its a moderate gain amp, 16db vhf / 23 db uhf. For the chea price, the thing works absolute wonders. I live in an area (Windsor) where we have strong local signals, and a ton of fringe signals available to pull in. The 10G201 does a gret job of making those weak signals stronger and doesn't seem to overload any local signals.

I then replaced it with a 10G212 high gain amp, again AntennaCraft. 30 Db vhf/uhf amp with gain control and a switchable FM Trap. This amp instead of improving signals, actually made them worse. No matter how much i played with the gain control, the signasl of all my fringe stations were wearker (or gone completely) and local signals weaker as well. Had it installed for approx 2 weeks and im pretty sure these past 2 weeks have been descent testing weather with little or no tropo and colder temps. I tried for 2 weeks at all times of the day to get better results, constantly adjusting the gain but couldnt' even achieve the results the 10G201 gave me.

Tonight I re-installed the 10G201 amp and voila, my signals are all much stronger, basically where they were before with this amp. I should have read the reviews of the 10G212, most i have read have been poor.

Happy testing guys.

Just got the 4-way CM 3414 drop amp: 8 db gain and noise about 2 to 3 (I think). Three TVs are running using 3 of the 4 3414 ports.

I'm running a stacked/hacked pair of 4221HDs aimed east to BUF (45 to 75 miles to towers), and a single 4228HD aimed north to TO (35 miles to CN). The CHCH tower is 2.5 miles away. I am also using a UVSJ splitter to attenuate the VHF signal

I've tried the CM 7778 and the Winegard HDP-269. The 7778 caused overaload and the 269 was good in bringing in Erie, PA channels (mostly WQLN- 54.1).

The 3414 brought some improvement over the pre-amps:

1) No overload on any channels
2) Slightly stronger signals on many channels
3) Better picture quality on analog channels (Toronto stations)
3) Great increase in channel strength for CIII - 41.1 (RF 65.1) from zero bars to 5 bars. This channel is difficult to receive for my location- locking in about once a week.

However, 3414 did not help in getting a lock on WNYO 49.1, or ION 51.1 (RF 23.1). Signal strength might have improved, but not enough for a lock.

Next on the "to try list" is a Kitztech amp- maybe in about a month or two.

Verdict: I'll keep the 3414 since it got me a solid lock for CIII, and there's no overload issues.

Just got the 4-way CM 3414 drop amp[...]
I'm running a stacked/hacked pair of 4221HDs aimed east to BUF (45 to 75 miles to towers), and a single 4228HD aimed north to TO (35 miles to CN). The CHCH tower is 2.5 miles away. I am also using a UVSJ splitter to attenuate the VHF signal

The 3414 brought some improvement over the pre-amps:

1) No overload on any channels
2) Slightly stronger signals on many channels
3) Better picture quality on analog channels (Toronto stations)
3) Great increase in channel strength for CIII - 41.1 (RF 65.1) from zero bars to 5 bars. This channel is difficult to receive for my location- locking in about once a week.

Interesting. Your results are encouraging. Have you tested without the UVSJ? I would like to see if you get overloads and if it's across the board, or only on some channels (like I do) with the CM3414.
How is your UVSJ connected? Have you also added an FM trap?


Next on the "to try list" is a Kitztech amp- maybe in about a month or two.

Verdict: I'll keep the 3414 since it got me a solid lock for CIII, and there's no overload issues.
I'm holding out on getting the kitztech just yet, as I'm already getting overload issues with the CM3414. Once I get my UVSJs, I'll know if it's really the cause of my problem.

Marc

Can i run two preamps inline? I am very deep fringe, Lat 36.304 and long 88.286. 2 91 xg's stacked horizontal, 55 ft high, rg 6 jumpers, rg 11 down lead, CM 7777 but my 7777 is either going out or a bad jumper up the tower. Will find out soon but wanted 1 to 2 more preamps on hand when my tower man comes. Pioneer hdmi receiver, Pioneer plasma and now just uhf. At some point i might put up my vip-306 but not anytime soon.

I do not have to worry about overload exception of maybe one station 25 miles away. So what is the best way to use 2 preamps inline? I ruled out the cost of Reseach Comm, wanted to experiment with differ than 7777 in which i have liked. Was thinking Kitztech, AntennaCraft 10g212, or At-Pau18.

Thanks,
ElvinBishop

Hi ElvinBishop, generally it is best to avoid having to run signal preamplifiers in series like that because the noise injected by the first preamp will be amplified and added to the noise of the second one, but how long are your cable runs exactly?

Please post your TVFool report here for us: go to www.tvfool.com and put in your zip code or address and then when it gives you your chart just copy and paste the URL from your browser's location bar into a reply here to this thread so that we can also see your chart. The info on that chart will be a huge benefit for the folks here who can then offer some great advice.

We have a thread on hacking 91XGs for better performance (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=111398), so maybe while you're doing the work you should go with some of those tips too.

Which city/town are you in?

Can i run two preamps inline? I am very deep fringe, Lat 36.304 and long 88.286.

Wow. You are in a bad spot for reception. Having said that, while a second pre-amp may not cause any overload, it won't help you at all. The main purpose of a pre-amp is to help weak signals overcome line and splitter losses by moving the first stage amplifier closer to the antenna where the signals are strongest. It will not bring weak signals out of the noise floor so a second amp won't buy you anything unless you have huge downlead losses. More elevation might help, or a lower noise amp (RC or Kitztech).

2 91 xg's stacked horizontal, 55 ft high, rg 6 jumpers, rg 11 down lead, CM 7777 but my 7777 is either going out or a bad jumper up the tower. Will find out soon but wanted 1 to 2 more preamps on hand when my tower man comes.

Although your 7777 could be going bad, it is more likely either one of the BALUNs or your signal combiner (what are you using to combine the signals from the 2 91XGs?).

At some point i might put up my vip-306 but not anytime soon.


The 91XG is a UHF only antenna and won't likely receive WTVF-DT on 5 or WSMV-DT on 10 so you will also want to install that VIP-306 soon. Just connect it to the VHF port of your CM7777 and insure it is set to separate inputs (a feature the other amps you listed don't have, though there are ways around that).

Hi ElvinBishop, generally it is best to avoid having to run signal preamplifiers in series like that because the noise injected by the first preamp will be amplified and added to the noise of the second one

No, it does not work like that. The first amp at the antenna can greatly affect the overall signal-to-noise ratio. That is why low noise is so important with the amp closest to the antenna.

A second amp down the line has little affect on the signal-to-noise ratio, and subsquently the noise factor matters much less.

I purchased a Kitz internal amp and I am perplexed by the results.

When I add the amplifier, I do not see any increase in signal on the tuner box. Nor do I see any apparent improvement in drop outs, etc.

So I called Kitz and spoke with Jeffery who was very pleasant and promised to test amp when I return it to him and to refund the price if amp is working and I decide not to have it sent back to me.

Jeffery made a comment that I wanted to explore here. He said that because the converter box displayed is based on S/N and the amp boosts both signal and noise, an amplifier may not improve the displayed signal.

Is that the experience of other users? i.e. no increase in displayed signal with an amplifier?

I had the same results. Where are you located, snowman?

Maybe the Kitztech (or any amp) is not so good in noisy urban environments.

Thanks all on the replies. My tower man was going up the tower soon and was going to check things out and possibly put the two extensions & reflectors on the 91 xg's and we can check everything out. Trouble shoot and see what it is.

I was watching tv last night and having good results, as i was manually adding some channels to the Samsung tuner. I started turning the antennas all away around and next thing i know, no signal. I need to also make sure it was a big enough loop and that the coax is all ok. It will be easier, once he goes up and looks at things.

I requested 70ohm, ch 2 to 50 frequency and right off i forget the frequencies and he cut the stripline combiner for me. F connectors and my intensions was to stack 4 91 xg's. I still may, 4 horizontal. I am 54" apart now and if i stack 4, maybe 27" to 40" apart but no more than that. The combiner has f connectors and he dummy loaded or capped off two ends that i am not using now. I need to make sure those two ends are staying clean and no water going in. I do have a small 2 splitter combiner i can try and trouble shoot with also. I have a friend that had a bad jumper, rg6 on his 2 91xg's and when he put a new jumper inline he was ok. He want's me to go ahead and stack 4 while he is here and on the tower and even use the extensions but i wonder just how directional 4 would be, horizontal. They are already very directional now.

I will get the vip-306 up when spring gets here. I'll report back and let everyone know what the prob was. Great forum and site. Thanks on the info about the preamps. I might get an extra to just keep around for emergency. I am using rg6 jumpers and rg11 comming into the house. Rg11 is 65 to 75 ft long. Maybe 75ft. I need to check my connections everywhere.

I had the same results. Where are you located, snowman?

About 30 mi south of the San Diego towers in Baja Ca Mx.

I looked at several channels from very weak to reasonably strong. There did not seem to be any improvement on any of them. Which makes me wonder if the amp is working.