Hi,

I received lately some PM's about my test I promised to do with the new Kitz Tech pre-amplifier with power injector. I decided to share my results.
Compared to the old ampifier I got the same results with the new model.I tested the new Kitz my CM4221 and Archer pointed at Montréal and the tests are exaclty the same. With my 10y13s pointed for WVNY, it was the same results compared to the older model of Kitz Tech.

I'm using right now the Kitz with a Hacked 4221HD antenna pointed at St-Albans with an other LCD TV, no combiner and no splitter. Remember that you also need to make a box for the Kitz for weatherproofing. I was lucky to get great weather in late November for the installation on the roof.


I am planning to purchase a Winegard preamp in the spring of 2010 for my FM antenna and Sony HD radio. I didn't yet decide if I should buy a VHF preamp only (AP- 3700, 17 dB gain, 2.6 dB noise) or the more versatile VHF/UHF (AP-2870, 17/19 dB, 2.9 dB noise). I guess if I am not using the UHF input, I can always put a 75 ohms terminator on the UHF side. I emailed Winegard and they said the AP-3700 is superior for VHF only. Maybe they have a warehouse full of VHF only preamps because of the DTV transition and they want to get rid of them. If I get the VHF/UHF model, I can always compare it with the CM7777 and Kitz.

The VHF/UHF is more versatile for sure, as a backup also.

I need your comments and/or experiences with the Winegard preamps!


Intravino

Hi

I just got my Kitz tonight. I hooked it up in the basement replacing the pa18 pre amp on the antenna mast with a joiner. at 5 feet off the ground next to my house its no wonder install


Went inside powered up and voila channel 11 watchable !!! 6 watchable ! 13 great crystal clear none of these worked well before . Part of the reason was my db -8 none vhf hi antena -- but that means I can watch hi vhf now


The kitz warned not to play with the gain setting as the screw self destructs very fast so ok===== no touch set for hi gain.

yep I'm happy maybe when I roof the tenna in the spring it'll bring in pbs 23 hahahah :)


kitz thumbs up :cool:

Daemons,

id suggest NOT using a 4 way distro amp, especially if you dont need that, now a preamp is a different story, but even that in Montreal can be a problem!

Excellent results, GeoStar!

That's what one should expect to see in this area, using a true low-noise (pre-)amp to lower the system noise figure.

Cheers

Maybe the amp is OK and it's my setup/signal that's causing it to misbehave.

Any ideas?

Marc
Daemons, Are you using an FM trap prior to the input of the 3414? It can be a deal breaker even for UHF channels.

I find the 3414 very resistant to overload. Only 9 miles from the Wash DC towers using an FM trapped YA-1713, & pre-amped 91-XG (HDP-269) fed into a 3414 shows no signs of overload. Removing the FM trap is detrimental to most of the weaker stations 45 miles out; especially VHF. There is also an off-axis 160 kw UHF station only 2 miles away. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dbc27f08b495d63

Hmmm..., this is interesting. Are you saying a FM trap is recommended to use before the CM 3414 drop amp? I am 2.5 miles from a TV tower that probably has FM signals coming off it (it's the CHCH tower in Hamilton). I am currently using a UVSJ splitter to help attenuate 11.0 which comes off this tower- this has helped a little- now if I add an FM trap, maybe this would help too- which FM trap is recommended?

If you are just using the UHF side of the UVSJ then you should be OK. A trap is only needed if you are inserting VHF with strong FM to the input of the amp.

id suggest NOT using a 4 way distro amp, especially if you dont need that, now a preamp is a different story, but even that in Montreal can be a problem! My MythTV box has two seperate inputs for Analog and Digital, so I need an amplified splitter or else I'd lose all my signal in the splitter. But as others are saying, maybe I need to trap the FM. Especially in Montreal, we have stong FM towers (CKOI being by far the worst!).

Daemons, Are you using an FM trap prior to the input of the 3414? It can be a deal breaker even for UHF channels.

I find the 3414 very resistant to overload. Only 9 miles from the Wash DC towers using an FM trapped YA-1713, & pre-amped 91-XG (HDP-269) fed into a 3414 shows no signs of overload. Removing the FM trap is detrimental to most of the weaker stations 45 miles out; especially VHF. There is also an off-axis 160 kw UHF station only 2 miles away.
No FM trap, Antenna straight into the 3414. Now it makes sense that mostly ch22 would be affected. Theres probably a large harmonic from FM causing problems on that frequency.
If you are just using the UHF side of the UVSJ then you should be OK. A trap is only needed if you are inserting VHF with strong FM to the input of the amp.
I think I'll do that. I'll use two UVJS. One to remove the VHF to the amp, and the 2nd to combine the UHF/VHF back for my analog input. That way the amp will only see UHF.

Mlord: Do you think Active Surplus still have those UVJS you mentioned in the splitters thread? I know it was some months ago, but I might want to try them now. :)

Marc

Yes, Active Surplus still has more than 100 of those UVSJs in the box down near floor level. I picked up another handful of them this past weekend. :)

Are you sure that you "need" that distribution amp, now that there's a good pre-amp in the system? A pre-amp normally replaces any need for distribution amps.

I can split the output of my pre-amp here 8-ways without having our weakest digital station (very weak) drop out from the HVR-950Q tuner. A 16-way split kills it, though.

On the other hand, the digital input to the HVR-1600 tuner doesn't seem to tolerate anything more than a 2-way split for it's weakest (local) station. So for that, I used an asymmetric 3-way splitter, putting the HVR-1600 digital onto the strong output leg, and then using the two weaker outputs for our analog tuners.

Cheers

Yes, Active Surplus still has more than 100 of those UVSJs in the box down near floor level. I picked up another handful of them this past weekend. :)

Great. I'll give them a call today. Might as well order a few to make up for shipping.
Are you sure that you "need" that distribution amp, now that there's a good pre-amp in the system? A pre-amp normally replaces any need for distribution amps.

I don't have any pre-amp in the system. This 3414 is all I have atm.
On the other hand, the digital input to the HVR-1600 tuner doesn't seem to tolerate anything more than a 2-way split for it's weakest (local) station. So for that, I used an asymmetric 3-way splitter, putting the HVR-1600 digital onto the strong output leg, and then using the two weaker outputs for our analog tuners.
The HVR-1600 is a pita. It's because of it I got this 3414 in the first place.
That, and I was planning down the line to add a HVR-2250 to my MythTV box.
I'll try with the UVJS in the mix first before buying another (pre)amp. I would need them with a Kitztech preamp anyhow, right?

Marc

Probably.

Note also that a true low-noise (pre)amp, eg. RC or Kitz, will effectively double your signal quality when compared to most other (pre)amps, and possible do even better than that for the "no existing amp" case.

Cheers

I write to tell you how how happy I am with the AT-PAU18 HDTV Pre Amplifier.

I highly recommend the AT-PAU18 HDTV Pre Amplifier to anyone suffering intermittent HD-TV reception. I know rain will help degrade the HD TV Signals, but I am confident my AT-PAU18 will keep my channels strong and stable in any weather.

Here in Los Angeles I wanted to capture UHF Channel 24 in San Bernardino County, more than 80 miles away with some obstructions. I installed a very high-gain WINEGARD HD-9095P UHF Yagi Style HDTV Antenna and the Pre-Amp.

I used a recently calibrated WAVETEK SAM III for my measurements. Needless to say, the AT-PAU18 far surpassed my expectations!

At the antenna I measured -1dBm. After all of the coax loss (about 40' of RG-6) and the provided power splitter, I measured a whopping +26dBm! Truly impressive performance...

I have added a 4-way splitter (lots of loss) and I am happy to tell you that I am now receiving Channel 24 with no pixalation or picture drop-outs at any of the televisions.

I hope this help you.

Respectfully,
SO-GLAD

You're the second person to have given the AT-PAU18 a good write-up (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=997471#post997471) here.

Thanks for the comment. I searched for "AT-PAU18" before my post, but I didn't find the positive post you refer to? I did find one for sale (and sold), but I hope my post will be helpful to others.

As you know, many pre-amplifiers make fantastic claims about gain. In my estimation the AT-PAU18 is one of the finest available today ~ especially for the money.

Thank you again for reading my post.

I remain,
SO-GLAD

I write to tell you how how happy I am with the AT-PAU18 HDTV Pre Amplifier... At the antenna I measured -1dBm. After all of the coax loss (about 40' of RG-6) and the provided power splitter, I measured a whopping +26dBm! Truly impressive performance...

I have added a 4-way splitter (lots of loss) and I am happy to tell you that I am now receiving Channel 24 with no pixalation or picture drop-outs at any of the televisions.
While I am happy that your setup works for you, there's nothing in those numbers to indicate anything special about that pre-amp.

+26dBm is simply raw gain, which could include a ton of added noise, or not. Split that four ways, and it's still +19dBm, which is way more than enough for any tuner to deal with. Again, nothing special.

Now.. if it can amplify without adding significant noise/distortion, then that's something to sing on high about. A -1dBm signal can be watched with even a radioshack pre-amp.

But again, happy to hear that it works, and thanks for the data point!

Cheers!

I tried the PAU18 here, and sold it after about 1 week.:o

It did NOTHING for my reception, and NOTHING even close to the Kitztech.;)

I did a little digging and the AT-PAU18 preamp is brought from China by Antra, a long time FTA outfit that has branched out to selling clone OTA antennas of the CM4228, CM4221, and Zenith Silver Sensor.

let me offer this...

Before the addition of my AT-PAU18, channel 24 was unstable and in such serious noise we typically had less than 50% truly enjoyable signal.

I had just one HD receiver connected to the Weinguard antenna to a new 1080P 220Hz Vizio. The programs on channel 24 were so unstable it was maddening. In fact so bad we would fast-forward through the hash and how much fun is that? Yes, there were a few evenings when 70% of the program we wanted was watchable and that kept us hooked on Channel 24.

Yes, the AT-PAU18 does offer +26dBm of raw gain, but that +26dBm is enough to satisfy my HD receivers and now none have a problem with Channel 24!

After the addition of the AT-PAU18 I have more than enough signal to keep my Vizio in constant signal-lock. I now have more than enough signal levels to supply my other 1080P HD receiver and two HDTV converters! Now none of my receivers have a problem with Channel 24 or any other local station(s) and for me ~ what works really counts. "I" like and recommend the AT-PAU18 because it truly performs for me, even though I have constant LAX aircraft traffic between me and the main transmitters on Mount Wilson.

Why quibble about noise floors, noise figures, near-by power line interference, old coax or the phases of the moon? I personally "see" no degradation of my video or audio on any channel on two HD 1080P receivers and two HDTV converters. I see no signs of smearing or distortions even on my two cheapie Channel Master HDTV converters. Who wants to or is ready to drag out a lab of test equipment to measure any tiny amount of lesser picture or audio delivery between a direct HD antenna and a signal that is provided through a pre-amp?

Go to almost any showroom and the "show" you see is a 'distributed' show provided through some form of amplifier. Granted, most do use a Blue-ray signal source to provide dazzling picture and audio, but usually the 'show' we see is pumped through a RF Amp... WITH distortion and WITH some (tiny-tiny) "noise", but who sees that when we have a decent signal source and a decent 1080P receiver?

And let's be frank about this... what (reasonably priced) consumer RF amplifier (or pre-amplifier) functions WITHOUT some measure of distortion and noise? You mentioned a Radio Shack pre-amp with -1dbm... isn't the recommended minimum 1,000 microvolts or 0 dBm for HDTV? And at -1dBm isn't that signal at 'the painful edge' of pixilation and station drop-outs?

Nowhere in your post did I see you offer any other reasonably priced pre-amp in it's class that is better. I have tried a other pre-amps from Weinguard to RCA's to Terk and other lesser contenders. My money is on the AT-PAU18 Pre-Amp and I base my opinions and comments on my experiences.

Finally, I am new here and the LAST thing I want to do is be involved in a 'wetting' contest with anyone. All I am offering is based on performance I have personally experienced.

Watching great HDTV tonight I remain...

SO-GLAD

I did a little digging and the AT-PAU18 preamp is brought from China by Antra, a long time FTA outfit that has branched out to selling clone OTA antennas of the CM4228, CM4221, and Zenith Silver Sensor.I had no idea about the history of Antra, but the gain claims of the AT-PAU18 really got my attention so I had to try one for myself. Antra claims +28db gain and considering my installation ~ coax length, fittings and all, I am comfortable saying that the AT-PAU18 provides gain very close to that +28db.

The specification sheet also states that the AT-PAU18 has a noise figure that is typically 2db. Truly weak signals can be burried under that 2db noise floor but I didn't witness that with a HDTV signal at just under 0dBm (1,000 microvolts). In fact, the AT-PAU18 pulled my desired station out of noise into a 100% great picture... so far.

It's really great to see how electronics in general evolves! This is especially true of the HDTV generation today and for generations to come.

Thanks! I remain...

SO-GLAD

Nowhere in your post did I see you offer any other reasonably priced pre-amp
That's because I try to keep my posts short and to the point, rather than long, rambling, and smacking of marketeering.

If you'd like recommendations of good pre-amps, simply dig backwards in this very thread. There are quite a few good posts here, possibly even some from me.

But again, in your situation, any pre-amp would have worked. So I'm happy for you that you found a pre-amp.

Cheers